The Indie Thread (2)

[white_frog914]

This thread makes me sick. Thanks to indie "rock," rock & roll is well and truly dead in 2006, and has been for some time now. I'm amazed that any of you can still sleep at night after hailing that douche-bag from Bright Eyes as the "Next Bob Dylan." Blasphemers.

Rock n Roll died in 1979.


Stop your sniveling.

 

[philN]

I didn't realize we forced you to read the thread.

Actually, I should probably fess up to that one. I commanded him via PM to read it or else I threatened to kill is kitten.

By bad.

 

[philN]

Dear Jacob (the one that doesn't think Why? sucks),

What Ween albums do you have right now? I don't want to send you ones you already have...

XOXO,

Phil

 

[The Theory]

I don't think Why? sucks... I just don't think he's worth listening to. A small but essential difference.

 

[ariotofmyown]

To say that indie rock killed rock & roll is just ignorant, as folk, experimental, hiphop, psychedelic, metal, rock, punk, hard rock, and pop can all technically fit under the "indie" umbrella, so long as the artist is not in the mainstream (and even that is changing as bands like Franz Ferdinand and the Arcade Fire have been getting crossover success).

If you're upset that rock or punk or whatever other genre people are upset about being dead, don't blame an abstract label that people haphazardly throw on bands that have an unconventional sound, blame the heartless music industry, the radio station bribery, or the lack of talented individuals willing to make some good music that fits into the [insert genre name here] category.

Point well taken, maybe I should have been a bit more specific. I'm talking about the whole "indie rock" scene, not all of the bands that can full under the umbrella category of "independent rock." You're speaking in technicalities...Yet you still come off as very naive.

I've always thought that the "roll" in rock & roll died with Bob Seger's career.

Well played.

I didn't say that Conor was the "next Dylan", but then again, I can name several artists who I believe are better lyricists than Zimmerman.

Well then, put up or shut up. Name me a few. Not even saying I disagree with you, my problem here is that everyone now is so eager to jump the gun and categorize every indie band as "The Next [Whoever]!, " before any of these bands pay some dues. Indie kids think that anything acoustic or vaguely folkish is "folk," yet all they know about folk is Bob Dylan. I try to talk Dylan with some of these kids and the only songs they seem to want to talk about are, "Blowin' in the Wind," "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall," "Like a Rolling Stone," or any number of Dylan tunes that everyone and their mom knows. Albums like Blonde On Blonde go over most of these kids' heads. The beauty of an album like that, for example, is that Dylan seamlessly integrated various songwriting styles of the 20th Century into a single (well, double), cohesive album. They don't even give any thought to the fact that the man is cut from the same cloth as, not only the obvious influences of Woody Guthrie and Hank Williams, but also Irving Berlin and Cole Porter, and that he has painstakingly studied their careers and techniques. These kids don't realize things like that because the current generation has no reverence for great songwriters of the past, the knowldge of most of the ones I talk to seem to really only go as far back as Cobain (who coulnd't be more overrated). You people seem so content with the mediocre.

I didn't realize we forced you to read the thread.

I don't really get this one. Where in my post did I say that anyone "forced" me to read the thread?

 

[white_frog914]

You totally ignored my post.

You sir are a sexist and I am currently reporting you to the mods.

 

[philN]

Point well taken, maybe I should have been a bit more specific. I'm talking about the whole "indie rock" scene, not all of the bands that can full under the umbrella category of "independent rock." You're speaking in technicalities...Yet you still come off as very naive.

Fine. I'm ignorant. Well played, sir.

Well then, put up or shut up. Name me a few. Not even saying I disagree with you, my problem here is that everyone now is so eager to jump the gun and categorize every indie band as "The Next [Whoever]!, " before any of these bands pay some dues. Indie kids think that anything acoustic or vaguely folkish is "folk," yet all they know about folk is Bob Dylan. I try to talk Dylan with some of these kids and the only songs they seem to want to talk about are, "Blowin' in the Wind," "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall," "Like a Rolling Stone," or any number of Dylan tunes that everyone and their mom knows. Albums like Blonde On Blondego over most of these kids' heads. The beauty of an album like that, for example, is that Dylan seamlessly integrated various songwriting styles of the 20th Century into a single (well, double), cohesive album. They don't even give any thought to the fact that the man is cut from the same cloth as, not only the obvious influences of Woody Guthrie and Hank Williams, but also Irving Berlin and Cole Porter, and that he has painstakingly studied their careers and techniques. These kids don't realize things like that because the current generation has no reverence for great songwriters of the past, the knowldge of most of the ones I talk to seem to really only go as far back as Cobain (who coulnd't be more overrated). You people seem so content with the mediocre.

Well, we can all thank our lucky stars that we have pompous boob like you to come into our thread and rescue us from our ignorance.

Or maybe, if you took the time to discuss things with us or get to know us you would find that we do not need to be rescued. In fact, we are perfectly content to listen to the things that we listen to. You mentioned Dylan. I am a huge Dylan fan. Blood On the Tracks and Blonde On Blonde are two of my favorite albums of all-time. I saw Dylan play in a small auditorium a little over a year ago (obviously it wasn't as good as it would have been 40 years ago, but I was pretty content). I also think Curt Cobain is way overrated. And I think Bright Eyes is hit-or-miss (although I'm Wide Awake It's Morning draws heavily from some great coutry songwriters and even features Emmylou Harris).

If you hung around long enough to get to know people here, you would realize that we rarely talk about Bright Eyes and I don't remember ever talking about Nirvana.

So if you want to have some fun and interesting conversations about music stop acting like an asshat and start talking about your favorite albums, things you've been listening to lately, songs that inspire you, albums that move you, et cetera.

 

[The Theory]

Here all this time I thought it was Hair Metal and Grunge that killed rock n roll!!

I saw Bob Dylan and Willie Nelson last year. Both were good... but Willie Nelson was just incredible. Wow.

 

[Rather_dashing]

pedro the lion rocks

 

[philN]

pedro the lion rocks

I concur.

 

[theFijian]

pedro the lion rocks

Where can I buy these Pedro the Lion Rocks? My garden needs some work done to it.

 

[philN]

It's been really dead around here lately.

I wish I had some huge news or something to break the silence, but I really can't think of anything.

Oh, I got Art Brut tickets for my birthday. I'm seeing them April 3rd.


C'mon people.

What have you been listening to lately?

Inspire me. Now.

 

[theFijian]

Well I'm going to see Rodrigo y Gabriela tonight at King Tut's, which was recently voted top live music venue in Britain!

 

[philN]

I've never heard of Rodrigo y Gabriela. What kind of music is it?


The Lollapalooza line-up was announced today.

Ween
The Flaming Lips
Wilco
Sonic Youth
The Go! Team
The Shins
Broken Social Scene
New Pornographers
Secret Machines
Kanye West
The Hold Steady
Of Montreal
Jeremy Enigk
Anathallo

There are others, but I'm super-excited about those ones.

 

[Arnold_Philips]

It's been really dead around here lately.

I wish I had some huge news or something to break the silence, but I really can't think of anything.

Oh, I got Art Brut tickets for my birthday. I'm seeing them April 3rd.


C'mon people.

What have you been listening to lately?

Inspire me. Now.

Uh, I got a pass to go to Stereogum's SXSW party, but I didn't go... that was pretty exciting.

I've been listening to the new Hot Chip, Islands, and the new-ish Half-Handed Cloud. The Books also have a new one that I acquired, and it's only 15min long, which is just about as long as I can stand listening to The Books.

 

[theFijian]

I've never heard of Rodrigo y Gabriela. What kind of music is it?

A spanish guitar duo with latin, blues, rock and even metal influences:
BBC World music review
MySpace page
Official home page

The gig tonight was excellent. We got our times wrong so we missed the first 10 mins or so of their show but they played for over an hour which was good. They'd play their own stuff then slip in bit of Metallica, White Stripes and Pink Floyd riffs which got the crowd going. Their virtuosity was pretty impresive.

 

[white_frog914]

I need to buy tickets for Animal Collective, Art Brut, and Mates of State.

I'm going to miss seeing the Books to go see Mates of State

Also, I got Crooked Rain today. *dance*

 

[blackwasp]

Sorry for the delay...I've spent the better part of this past week just outside of West Palm Beach. The only downer was getting back to school where it's 50 degrees colder.

Well then, put up or shut up. Name me a few. Not even saying I disagree with you, my problem here is that everyone now is so eager to jump the gun and categorize every indie band as "The Next [Whoever]!, " before any of these bands pay some dues. Indie kids think that anything acoustic or vaguely folkish is "folk," yet all they know about folk is Bob Dylan. I try to talk Dylan with some of these kids and the only songs they seem to want to talk about are, "Blowin' in the Wind," "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall," "Like a Rolling Stone," or any number of Dylan tunes that everyone and their mom knows. Albums like Blonde On Blonde go over most of these kids' heads. The beauty of an album like that, for example, is that Dylan seamlessly integrated various songwriting styles of the 20th Century into a single (well, double), cohesive album. They don't even give any thought to the fact that the man is cut from the same cloth as, not only the obvious influences of Woody Guthrie and Hank Williams, but also Irving Berlin and Cole Porter, and that he has painstakingly studied their careers and techniques. These kids don't realize things like that because the current generation has no reverence for great songwriters of the past, the knowldge of most of the ones I talk to seem to really only go as far back as Cobain (who coulnd't be more overrated). You people seem so content with the mediocre.

First off, I see it the other way. In my opinion, people are so used to hearing what a great songwriter Dylan is/was that they neglect that anyone else could be as good (I think I fell into this for a while). As for lyricists, I have two main categories for my favorites: those that I think are objectively great writers and those that write things that I feel I can relate to.

I'll include my favorite piece lyrically by each artist.

Lyricists I find objectively better than Dylan:

Joanna Newsom ("Sadie")
Colin Meloy (The Decemberists) ("Grace Cathedral Hill")
Isaac Brock (Modest Mouse) ("Broke")
Will Oldham ("I See a Darkness")

Lyricists I personally enjoy more:
Jeff Tweedy (Wilco) ("Ashes of American Flags")
Conor Oberst (Bright Eyes) ("Waste of Paint")
Doug Martsch (Built to Spill) ("Cleo")
Nas ("Life's a *****")
Jeff Mangum (Neutral Milk Hotel) ("In the Aeroplane Over the Sea")

Lyricists who have written individual songs that I feel are more moving than anything Dylan wrote:

Elliott Smith ("Fond Farewell")
Sam Beam (Iron & Wine) ("Sodom, South Georgia")
Devendra Banhart ("The Body Breaks")
John Darnielle (The Mountain Goats) ("The Best Ever Death Metal Band in Denton")
Billy Corgan (Smashing Pumpkins) ("Disarm")
Lou Reed (The Velvet Underground) ("Heroin")

I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.

Perhaps you could list a few of Dylan's songs that you think are the epitome of songwriting.

 

[philN]

Also, I got Crooked Rain today. *dance*

It's about time. Fantastic record.


So. I'm trying to decide if I want to go to the Pitchfork festival for $30 or pay $100 more than that and go to Lollapalooza. I'm leaning towards the latter right now, if only for Ween, the Flaming Lips, and Sonic Youth, Broken Social Scene, and the New Pornographers.

Is anyone else planning on going?

Jacob (Theory), do you know if you are going or not?

 

[blackwasp]

I'm going to miss seeing the Books to go see Mates of State

You're crazy.

Also, I got Crooked Rain today. *dance*

Pavement has some songs that I really enjoy, but I fail to see how that album or Slanted and Enchanted are considered masterpieces.