The incompatibility of faith and doubt

[Mountain_Girl406]

doing this ^^^ is like a bystander observing the impossible from the safety of the boat.
it's human, and it's understandable, because we are coming to confront something new
from the position of our own assent and understanding.

When we get up and throw a leg over the side of the boat, something changes within us.
our attention and our faith goes from us and what we understand.
The focus is taken off ourselves, and our attention goes to God, Jesus, and the Church who invite us.

It's at that pivotal point that we're half-way between the safety of something familiar, and the challenging invitation of God.
A decision is necessary.
We can rely on God and Jesus because we have the testimony of those who went through this same thing before us.
But to make that final leap of faith ourselves, and actually commit our actions and our future---even for that we can
look back in life at other times when we made a similar committment to God and to Jesus.

"Come unto Me, all ye who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

it is that same invitation that Jesus offers those who struggle to believe, who carry a heavy load of fear or doubt--
enough to sink a battleship--and we try to carry it by ourselves.
It's so familiar, we've carried it for so long that it has become a part of us; we even identify ourselves with it.

"Come unto Me, all ye who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

So if we find ourselves sitting in the boat tonight, and we see something attractive that beckons us to a better life,
maybe it's time to put down that heavy load, stand up and throw a leg over the side of the boat.

How does one accomplish this? How do you decide to believe?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

It's hard for me to doubt the faith since I know that I have personally experienced miracles from God. Even when I'm sinning I know in the back of my mind that God sees it, so my conscience will bother me if not at that time then right after. I don't doubt God, but I often doubt myself and other people since we are the ones who fail so often.
.

 

[benedictaoo]

I've never had a problem believing. Its ingrained in me. It be a struggle for me not to believe. I have to see it only as a grace and be forever thankful. I struggle with not understanding His ways but not with Him being Him.

 

[benedictaoo]

How does one accomplish this? How do you decide to believe?

If it helps, I don't want a world with out Him being true. That makes having faith easy because I would despair with Him to believe in.

 

[Jared R]

How does one accomplish this? How do you decide to believe?

That's a good question.

Because faith is a gift from God we can ask for it. God must infuse it into and increase it in the soul.

So you can keep studying and looking for answers, while also asking for more faith. "Lord, I believe; help my unbelief." Even if you're not convinced that this is really how it works, what do you have to lose?

I stopped believing in God when I was 13, and I wanted to come back to Christianity all through my teen years, but it was hard for me because I had a high threshold of proof and didn't want to believe just because I wanted to believe, if you know what I mean. I wanted my beliefs to correspond with reality as it really is, and I wanted to be certain. Slowly, somewhere along the way grace took over and now I don't need the same level of proof I was demanding at first, I just know. My younger self would look at me now and say I'm just uncritical now, but I know that's not it. It's like St. Paul said, the wisdom of God is foolishness to the world. It looks irrational from the outside, but it's grace.

 

[Jared R]

I've never had a problem believing. Its ingrained in me. It be a struggle for me not to believe. I have to see it only as a grace and be forever thankful. I struggle with not understanding His ways but not with Him being Him.

Yes, I believe this is a grace from God you've received. Deo gratias, this is a great treasure.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

That's pretty much where I'm at, asking God to help with my faith. I lost faith just a few years earlier than you did, and have been looking (on and off...some years I didn't make much of an effort ) and praying since then. I'm back to making that effort again.

That's a good question.

Because faith is a gift from God we can ask for it. God must infuse it into and increase it in the soul.

So you can keep studying and looking for answers, while also asking for more faith. "Lord, I believe; help my unbelief." Even if you're not convinced that this is really how it works, what do you have to lose?

I stopped believing in God when I was 13, and I wanted to come back to Christianity all through my teen years, but it was hard for me because I had a high threshold of proof and didn't want to believe just because I wanted to believe, if you know what I mean. I wanted my beliefs to correspond with reality as it really is, and I wanted to be certain. Slowly, somewhere along the way grace took over and now I don't need the same level of proof I was demanding at first, I just know. My younger self would look at me now and say I'm just uncritical now, but I know that's not it. It's like St. Paul said, the wisdom of God is foolishness to the world. It looks irrational from the outside, but it's grace.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

If it helps, I don't want a world with out Him being true. That makes having faith easy because I would despair with Him to believe in.

I want there to be a God, a Heaven, and the potential for eternal life with those I love to be true as well. That's why it makes me sad that I don't believe just yet.

 

[Jared R]

It sounds like you're on the right path Mountain Girl. Keep asking and asking, and ask some more. That really goes for all of us.

 

[benedictaoo]

I want there to be a God, a Heaven, and the potential for eternal life with those I love to be true as well. That's why it makes me sad that I don't believe just yet.

Pray for faith. I'll pray for you.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I want there to be a God, a Heaven, and the potential for eternal life with those I love to be true as well. That's why it makes me sad that I don't believe just yet.

Have you ever had a close brush with death?

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Yeah, a few times.

Have you ever had a close brush with death?

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Yeah, a few times.

Did any of those times seem miraculous?

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Did any of those times seem miraculous?

No, not really, there were no NDEs or anything like that. Outside of one serious illness, they've mostly been more like near miss accidents or outdoor situations that turned dangerous and required quick thinking and careful action.
I imagine a NDE would increase ones faith, and while I don't want to come close enough to death to have one (or not have one and be even further from faith) I'd like to meet in person someone who had one. I enjoy reading about them.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

No, not really, there were no NDEs or anything like that. Outside of one serious illness, they've mostly been more like near miss accidents or outdoor situations that turned dangerous and required quick thinking and careful action.
I imagine a NDE would increase ones faith, and while I don't want to come close enough to death to have one (or not have one and be even further from faith) I'd like to meet in person someone who had one. I enjoy reading about them.

I've had some experiences that I believe involved some kind of divine intervention. The one that stands out in particular is when I was struck by a car while I was riding on a bicycle. I mentioned it in another thread (here).

 

[pdudgeon]

n/m

 

[Fantine]

Amidst all of this theological philosophizing, there is one post that stands out to me as most helpful in increasing our faith, post #35, LWU's testimony of surviving being struck by a car while riding his bicycle.

You want to increase your faith? Don't read a book. Sit down at a Bible study group and share your testimonies.

As most of you know, I sometimes play the organ in a fairly small parish. The organ sits in the front, and if I look to the right I see the altar, and if I look to the left I see the congregation. In back of the organ is the 14th Station of the Cross. One of my frequent lectors is a woman who has lost two children--one to drowning, one to suicide. She sits right by me, and one night I was struck by the thought of what the fourteenth station meant to her. And I realized, "She lost two children. She comes here and looks at the fourteenth station over my shoulder every week. And she still believes...."

Forget the homily. Forget Thomas Aquinas. She and her husband were my homily. They were my theologians.

There are lots of stories of faithfulness in this church, and I know most of them. I think I have also shared that after Communion (while I'm playing a hymn, of course) I choose a member of the Congregation to pray for--so much sorrow, so many challenges.

I am passionate about lifelong learning, but in the area of faith, I am entirely emotional and intuitive. My friends and my parish and some of you are my theologians. It's that simple.

 

[Martinius]

To me, and many other spiritual people I have talked to or heard from (priests, nuns, etc.) doubt is part of our faith. If one never had doubt, to me that would mean they have never lived their faith, never been challenged in their faith, never really had a deep thought about their faith. Doubt occurs in several places in the Gospels and in the writings of the most spiritual of the Fathers (and Mothers) of Catholicism. What must happen is that we work through it and overcome our doubts, and move beyond them. Doing so makes our faith that much stronger.

 

[bill5]

Absolutely. Faith tells us what to believe, reason confirms it.

? Faith IS belief. God/RCC/our heart tells us what to believe. Reason may or may not confirm it, but man cannot live by reason alone.

honestly, i think it's both false and an oxymoron.

dissent always implies that there is either a better or a more acceptable answer than the one given,
and that the original opinion or reasoning has not been disproved.

an oxymoron because there can only be two reasons behind dissent: either faith or else pride.
if it is faith, then humility in dissent would be dishonest.
if it is pride, then dissent can only lead to one's downfall, and not to a good outcome.

I disagree on all counts, as I did with the OP. For starters, humility and dissent are by definition not opposite in meaning. Dissent simply means disagreement...not necessarily with God, btw. Humility is lacking in arrogance and self-absorption, acknowledging one's imperfection, etc. In short, one can disagree without being arrogant or close-minded about it.

Further, the notion that the only 2 reasons one can dissent are faith or false pride simply isn't true. If one reaches a different conclusion, neither necessarily have anything to do with it (although faith I would think is highly likely to be at least part of it regarding these kind of matters). In fact, I would think/hope that reason is a big part of why one would dissent...as someone else said, not believing simply because one "ought" to in a Pascal's Wager kinda way.

You want to increase your faith? Don't read a book.

The Bible is a book

Seriously, I think both sharing among people and reading (even outside the Bible) can both help our faith, and other things as well. Faith is a rather complex thing which can have many nuances and as the saying goes "move in mysterious ways."

And lastly I agree with whoever said a faith that hasn't been kicked in the tires is lacking (if I misunderstood pardon, but that is at least my belief). I have a good friend who is like this, in fact (and PS I am not saying her faith isn't good or she isn't a good Christian etc)....she comes from a family that's very close and has always had strong religious beliefs and ties. Further, they walk the talk. But I've talked to her enough and know her family well enough to know she's never really questioned her beliefs. In a way, I envy her; it's been easy for her. But I think someone who has had serious doubts but has come back to those beliefs anyway has a stronger faith, for lack of a better way to put it.

 

[Rhamiel]

If one never had doubt, to me that would mean they have never lived their faith, never been challenged in their faith, never really had a deep thought about their faith.

what if they never had doubts because they are just so close to Jesus?

they might have been tempted to sin in order to avoid pain or gain the respect of the World
they might have given in few times
but then they repented

is giving into temptation the same as doubt?

is it not better to never doubt?
to just accept God and trust in Him