The Immaculate Conception "Problem"

[Nemo Neem]

Firstly, my denomination doesn't believe in the immaculate conception. Secondly, I broach this subject because the two Methodist churches in my town are literally having a WAR over this issue, and my church is losing (we're conservative, the other is liberal). Should this even be that BIG of an issue to tear two churches apart?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Firstly, my denomination doesn't believe in the immaculate conception. Secondly, I broach this subject because the two Methodist churches in my town are literally having a WAR over this issue, and my church is losing (we're conservative, the other is liberal). Should this even be that BIG of an issue to tear two churches apart?

This strikes me as quite bizarre. Why would any Methodist (conservative, liberal, or otherwise) have any concern as to how Mary was conceived?

Yes, you read that correctly. The doctrine of the immaculate conception has absolutely nothing to do directly with the conception of Jesus Christ but everything to do with the conception of Mary. You can read all about it here - Immaculate Conception - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Rhamiel]

Firstly, my denomination doesn't believe in the immaculate conception. Secondly, I broach this subject because the two Methodist churches in my town are literally having a WAR over this issue, and my church is losing (we're conservative, the other is liberal). Should this even be that BIG of an issue to tear two churches apart?

I see no reason for members of the UMC to fight over this
can not each church just let the other one believe what it wants?

not to be rude, but I am very familiar with several UMC congregations in my area, I would think that the conservative and liberal UMC congregations would spend more time fighting over the issue of Gay Marriage or abortion or other social issues rather then something that is not recognized as dogma by your denomination

has your denomination a formal teaching on this matter?
if so then that should settle the issue
if there is no formal teaching from the UMC then let each other believe whatever they want

 

[bbbbbbb]

I see no reason for members of the UMC to fight over this
can not each church just let the other one believe what it wants?

not to be rude, but I am very familiar with several UMC congregations in my area, I would think that the conservative and liberal UMC congregations would spend more time fighting over the issue of Gay Marriage or abortion or other social issues rather then something that is not recognized as dogma by your denomination

has your denomination a formal teaching on this matter?
if so then that should settle the issue
if there is no formal teaching from the UMC then let each other believe whatever they want

I think the OP is long gone now. The UMC has absolutely no teaching, formal or informal, on the Immaculate Conception. I think what he probably meant was the conception of Jesus Christ. The conservative Methodists hold to orthodox Christian views on the matter as set forth in the creeds - the Jesus Christ was conceived miraculously by the Holy Spirit. Liberal Methodists reject this teaching, finding it to be too "supernatural" for their "scientific" views.

Not long ago I was chatting with a Chinese fellow who is just now encountering Christianity, having been raised in an atheistic environment. He expressed surprise concerning the incarnation and strong unbelief. I assured him that if people can believe that a dead man came to life again, having been dead for three days, such a conception is not a problem

 

[Nemo Neem]

I think the OP is long gone now. The UMC has absolutely no teaching, formal or informal, on the Immaculate Conception. I think what he probably meant was the conception of Jesus Christ. The conservative Methodists hold to orthodox Christian views on the matter as set forth in the creeds - the Jesus Christ was conceived miraculously by the Holy Spirit. Liberal Methodists reject this teaching, finding it to be too "supernatural" for their "scientific" views.

Not long ago I was chatting with a Chinese fellow who is just now encountering Christianity, having been raised in an atheistic environment. He expressed surprise concerning the incarnation and strong unbelief. I assured him that if people can believe that a dead man came to life again, having been dead for three days, such a conception is not a problem

How am I "long gone?"

 

[motherprayer]

How could Jesus fulfill prophecy if He wasn't born of a virgin?

 

[Rhamiel]

if your denomination has no teaching on the immaculate conception
should not each church just leave the other one alone?

 

[bbbbbbb]

How am I "long gone?"

You had not responded to the subsequent posts. Most OPs tend to be very interactive with those who respond. I am glad to know you are still around.

 

[bbbbbbb]

How could Jesus fulfill prophecy if He wasn't born of a virgin?

He couldn't have, plain and simple. Those who deny the virgin birth end up lowering Jesus Christ to being merely some sort of good man, but not the Divine Son of God.

 

[bbbbbbb]

if your denomination has no teaching on the immaculate conception
should not each church just leave the other one alone?

I would appreciate some clarification from him if the controversy is over the Immaculate Conception (of Mary) or the sinless conception of Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit.

If it is the former, it is absurd for Methodist churches to be arguing with each other. If it is the latter, it is a very serious matter, indeed.

 

[jackmt]

How could Jesus fulfill prophecy if He wasn't born of a virgin?

And how could He be a sinless offering for our sins if He were born with a sin nature?

 

[jackmt]

has your denomination a formal teaching on this matter?
if so then that should settle the issue

Do you always let others do your thinking for you on such important matters?

 

[Prodigal Son1]

Do you always let others do your thinking for you on such important matters?

Shouldn't a person agree with a Church's teachings?

 

[jackmt]

Shouldn't a person agree with a Church's teachings?

Only if the church's teaching agrees with Scripture. One ought not check in his brain at the church door. Mt. 22:37

In the essentials, unity. In the nonessentials, liberty. In all things, charity. (A paraphrase of someone, I know not who.)

 

[Prodigal Son1]

Only if the church's teaching agrees with Scripture. One ought not check in his brain at the church door. Mt. 22:37

In the essentials, unity. In the nonessentials, liberty. In all things, charity. (A paraphrase of someone, I know not who.)

If a person has researched and agrees with a Church's doctrines, haven't they used their brain?

Scriptures are open to various interpretations, or so it seems.

 

[Moses Medina]

As bbbbbb was saying, if it is the latter example then there are serious matters, doesn't the methodest church teach that Christ was concieved by the Holy Spirit?

 

[jackmt]

If a person has researched and agrees with a Church's doctrines, haven't they used their brain?

Your statement, to which I originally responded, and which is repeated below, seems to indicate you believe one ought to accept whatever teachings the church you happen to belong to at any given moment mindlessly. Did I miss something or did you fail to express yourself rightly?

has your denomination a formal teaching on this matter?
if so then that should settle the issue

Or perhaps you are suggesting that one must be in perfect agreement with one's church to remain in fellowship?

 

[Prodigal Son1]

Your statement, to which I originally responded, and which is repeated below, seems to indicate you believe one ought to accept whatever teachings the church you happen to belong to at any given moment mindlessly. Did I miss something or did you fail to express yourself rightly?

Maybe I didn't express myself correctly.

Before joining the Church, I researched the doctrines, compared them to scriptures, reflected, prayed, and made a conscience decision to join, based on the doctrines in advance. If there were to be 'new' doctrines, I would certainly weigh them the same. Wouldn't that be considered 'thinking'?

 

[Moses Medina]

Maybe I didn't express myself correctly.

Before joining the Church, I researched the doctrines, compared them to scriptures, reflected, prayed, and made a conscience decision to join, based on the doctrines in advance. If there were to be 'new' doctrines, I would certainly weigh them the same. Wouldn't that be considered 'thinking'?

Amen Prodigal, I think it is very essential to do research on your church if it's non-denominational, or if you are part of research the denomination AND the church.

 

[Rhamiel]

Do you always let others do your thinking for you on such important matters?

if a persons church has a teaching, then you should atleast consider it

if you are in major disagreement with a denomination then maybe you should look for a differant church