The hypocrisy of being "pro-life"

[chevyontheriver]

Wishful thinking. Because the Roe vs. Wade ruling was getting an abortion is a Constitutional right, it can only be overturned with a repeal of the 14th Amendment - which obviously can't happen (thank you Dred Scott).

You lost me. Does anyone else here get her point?

 

[Hazelelponi]

You lost me. Does anyone else here get her point?

Nope. I don't.

 

[SkyWriting]

That would be a great idea.. but... I think that their are government agencies that do that and probably don't want any logic, love and efficiency to disrupt their typical red tape infested protocol... as with everything.

Public VS Private is roughly 50/50. Public agencies are low cost and 5 years wait time.
Private is faster and more expensive.

 

[Hazelelponi]

*** graphic description warning***
Actually that is not accurate. They put a stint in you the day before that grows inside of you while you sleep to open up the cervix. The next day they take it out, replace it with a tube and suck the baby out of the body in bits and pieces. This is what happened to me when I was 18 and very naive on the matter. I am now 60 and regret my decision every time this topic comes up. I know I am forgiven however He will not let me forget.

We are all flawed.. and yes God forgives us our sin.

When my daughter was pregnant it was absolutely life threatening.. and the doctors recommended abortion for her.

It was terrifying, she'd been in the hospital fighting for her life from day one, it was actually how we found out she was pregnant - she was in one life threatening situation after the other..

I took the doctors recommendation to heart, and spoke to her about the possibility of going ahead and getting an abortion. They would have performed it there in the hospital so it wasn't unsafe for her.

I had always been anti-abortion, raised her in these beliefs, and she looked at me and said how can I, a person who was always anti-abortion, now sit and calmly discuss killing my own grandchild..

She lived, the baby lived, and while we had struggles in the matter, she lived the belief I only spoke of. Showed me in action my own hypocrisy. It was humbling, to say the least.

She had, then by choice, another child, and I spent all my time in terror of losing her because this pregnancy was even more life-threatening than the first, but they both pulled through that one as well..

And today I have two beautiful grandchildren... my daughter died a couple years later from cancer, but what she gave to us who love her is more precious than gold, both in her children, and as well in her heart filled with love - a selfless love.

God forgives us our sin... but He humbles us too..

 

[Ken Rank]

Over and over again so-called "pro-lifers" say two things that butt against each other:

1. Contraception is a form of abortion, especially the morning after pills (Plan B).
   
2. There is no reason to have an abortion because women can use contraception.

Do all liberals or all conservatives (or all Christians for that matter) hold exactly the same position on every item of is there generally a variety in terms of details that people hold to? No... two people can be Christian and one believe in a rapture and another in a second exodus. Or, pre-trip, post trip... or no rapture as we know it at all.

You are taking the position of certain people and applying it to all who call themselves by the same label. Life begins at conception, as far as I am concerned because at conception, GENETICALLY SPEAKING, that thing is a unique for of human life DISTINCT FROM THE MOTHER making it NOT a women's right issue. To do something that prevent conception is not the same as killing that unique form of life after conception but preventing conception does not allow for a unique genetic code to be written at all.

Those who say otherwise might not have thought it out and are speaking emotionally about the issue.

 

[RaymondG]

Those with the Spirit of God don't justify that which is evil and call it good (that's what Satan does), but rather call evil as evil, so that people do not go astray in confusion.

1 Timothy 5:20
As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.

Luke 17:3
Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him,

I see no repentance here, I see an awful lot of people excusing murder.

Those which the Spirit of God, do not falsely accuse others. If you can should that anyone here said that abortion was good in anyway...than I can go on assuming that you could operating with the Spirit of God.

 

[RaymondG]

Sorry. I can't imagine rape as ever being a rational way of childbearing.

YEs, I cant imagine rape being rationalized for any reason....including power....none of it makes sense to me. But I would assume I would need to become one to fully understand it.

Outside of something as far fetched the Handmaid's Tale that is. So, no. I do not want rape as a legitimate means of childbearing put into law. That's silly. Nor do I want to decriminalize rape. I wouldn't mind raising the penalty for rape and other violent crimes. And making the barbarity of abortion illegal.

Would you raise the penalty of to the level you would call the rape victim, who couldnt bear the child? Murder? Would you place some of the blame of the "murder" on the rapist....or would it only be the fault of the rape victim?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Those which the Spirit of God, do not falsely accuse others. If you can should that anyone here said that abortion was good in anyway...than I can go on assuming that you could operating with the Spirit of God.

Are you in this thread justifying by your words the murder of the unborn?

If so I can call that out as evil... because it is.

 

[RaymondG]

Just how messed up is the human race to see that as an excuse... really?

Do you deem yourself better than the human race because of your beliefs? Are you less messed up than everyone else because of your view on this one topic....or how well you see and follow the words of the bible, as you see them?

 

[chevyontheriver]

Those which the Spirit of God, do not falsely accuse others. If you can should that anyone here said that abortion was good in anyway...than I can go on assuming that you could operating with the Spirit of God.

If it's not good in any way, as you seem to suggest, why is it so important to so many people not to restrict it? Those who do not want to restrict it must see some good in it, right?

 

[RaymondG]

Are you in this thread justifying by your words the murder of the unborn?

If so I can call that out as evil... because it is.

Your discernment lets me know from what spirit your discernment comes from.

For those that will hear.

It is impossible to love the unborn, and hate the one who was to carry it. Likewise it is impossible to say you Love God, whom you have not seen and, and hate our neighbors.

What we Love is our our perceived righteousness and beliefs..... and we will tear down anything and anyone that stand in the way of what we love.

THIS is why we curse the ones who abort, but do nothing to take care of the babies that are born..... We only care that our beliefs be upheld....and care little for the actual life.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Your discernment lets me know from what spirit your discernment comes from.

For those that will hear.

It is impossible to love the unborn, and hate the one who was to carry it. Likewise it is impossible to say you Love God, whom you have not seen and, and hate our neighbors.

What we Love is our our perceived righteousness and beliefs..... and we will tear down anything and anyone that stand in the way of what we love.

THIS is why we curse the ones who abort, but do nothing to take care of the babies that are born..... We only care that our beliefs be upheld....and care little for the actual life.

Who says we don't care for those babies that are born?

Where's your proof of this?


Who Adopts the Most?

Who adopts the most:

• Christians. According to EthicsDaily.com, 5 percent of practicing Christians in the United States have adopted, which is more than twice the number of all adults who have adopted. In addition, a survey showed that 38 percent of practicing Christians had seriously considered adoption, while only 26 percent of all adults had.
• Caucasians. Most adoptive parents (73 percent) are non-Hispanic white adults, according to a study by the Barna Group. However, they are less likely to adopt a Caucasian child. Only 37 percent of children adopted are Caucasian.

 

[Silmarien]

It trades being raped and having the child of the rapist with being raped and then killing someone else to make it feel better. Aborting your baby isn't an emotion free decision, and in fact further traumatizes many who have decided to do it. And the unborn baby eliminated is made out to be the enemy but is in fact innocent.

You know, I find this whole "women are traumatized by abortion" argument very, very difficult. I know women who have had abortions without ever regretting it afterwards. It can be very hard to see an embryo as a baby, so I don't think this argument should be pushed hard.

(On the other hand, I was radically pro-choice before converting, and I think the ideology itself traumatized me, so desensitivization is a big issue as well.)

Is this about Republicans now.? Is this a Republican vs Democratic Party thing now? I was pro-life in my days as a Democrat until they essentially showed me the door. I was pro-life as a Republican after that. And now that I have moved on from being a Republican I am still pro-life.

You all should have stayed. We really need some consistent life ethic folk in the DNC, especially now with the euthanasia craze waiting in the wings.

 

[RaymondG]

If it's not good in any way, as you seem to suggest, why is it so important to so many people not to restrict it? Those who do not want to restrict it must see some good in it, right?

I see no good in owning guns.....yet I do not wish to restrict you from buying one, if you so choose. I feel it is against God, yet I will allow for you to live by them, if you so desire. Can you see how this is possible? Should I condemn you for Guns just because I think they are bad? Should i desire to force you to not have them, before you believe that I am against them?

What I see good in, is free will. I do not wish to hinder your ability to choose, based on my beliefs, because I dont want mine taken away because of another's beliefs. Is this hard to understand?

You believe what you do because it is in line with your religious beliefs.... But what if one, in power, was not a christian....would you be ok with their beliefs being forced on you?

Some believe women should not show their face.....would you like for their belief to be forced on you?

This will happen one day....your choices and books and churches will be taken away because of the beliefs of others...... You will call it fulfilment of prophecy, and righteous persecution.......You will totally forget that, this day, you desired to take away the choices and options of others because if your own personal convictions.........you will have forgotten the seeds you threw in the ground.....and the law that you can only reap what you have sown.

I choose to sow seeds of liberty...... I can tell you that you are sowing the wrong seeds, yet I will not condemn you for not listening to me........And this does not mean I believe you are doing the right thing just because I do not condemn you for it.

 

[Silmarien]

Wishful thinking. Because the Roe vs. Wade ruling was getting an abortion is a Constitutional right, it can only be overturned with a repeal of the 14th Amendment - which obviously can't happen (thank you Dred Scott).

This is not true. Roe rules that the the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment provides a right to privacy that allows a pregnant woman to get an abortion without government interference (at least before the fetus is viable). This is an interpretation of the 14th Amendment, and could be overturned by another Supreme Court case, if the court decides that the interpretation is wrong.

Usually Supreme Court cases do not get overturned because the court takes precedent very seriously, but it is certainly possible. This is why a ton of legislation is getting passed on both sides right now--with the conservative court, there's a chance that Roe will be overturned the next time one of these cases reaches the Supreme Court.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I see no good in owning guns.....yet I do not wish to restrict you from buying one, if you so choose. I feel it is against God, yet I will allow for you to live by them, if you so desire. Can you see how this is possible? Should I condemn you for Guns just because I think they are bad? Should i desire to force you to not have them, before you believe that I am against them?

What I see good in, is free will. I do not wish to hinder your ability to choose, based on my beliefs, because I dont want mine taken away because of another's beliefs. Is this hard to understand?

You believe what you do because it is in line with your religious beliefs.... But what if one, in power, was not a christian....would you be ok with their beliefs being forced on you?

Some believe women should not show their face.....would you like for their belief to be forced on you?

This will happen one day....your choices and books and churches will be taken away because of the beliefs of others...... You will call it fulfilment of prophecy, and righteous persecution.......You will totally forget that, this day, you desired to take away the choices and options of others because if your own personal convictions.........you will have forgotten the seeds you threw in the ground.....and the law that you can only reap what you have sown.

I choose to sow seeds of liberty...... I can tell you that you are sowing the wrong seeds, yet I will not condemn you for not listening to me........And this does not mean I believe you are doing the right thing just because I do not condemn you for it.

I'm all for freedom and liberty, however, when it comes down to issues of the right to murder, it's a societal issue and not one of freedom.

Government is to punish the wrongdoer, and raise up those who do good. If murder becomes an acceptable part of society, is it a society anyone is safe in? What's next, the elderly? The disabled? Where does the right to take human life end?

We should seek to protect the most innocent among us - not kill them off.

Guns cannot jump up and kill anyone of its own accord. Abortion always ends in death.

 

[RaymondG]

Who says we don't care for those babies that are born?

Where's your proof of this?

Just look around.

Every single person you are condemning right now...Everyone who you are falsely accusing right now....All that you are looking down one right now........where once UNBORN fetuses who you, now say, you cared so much for.....BEFORE they were born. Now look how you are treating us?

You love them until they stop believing what you believe....then you will condemn them and forget that you loved them and fought for their lives 15, 20 30 years ago?

The ones you are so vehemently fighting for now.....you will call a murderer if they are raped at 16 and couldnt bear the child.

This is nonsense. We are just deceiving ourselves.

There is no way that you can Love the unborn or the unseen, and hate your neighbor.

Fetuses need love and support from those with the love of God.....a love that stands the test of time and differences of opinions and beliefs.

 

[RaymondG]

I'm all for freedom and liberty, however, when it comes down to issues of the right to murder, it's a societal issue and not one of freedom.

Government is to punish the wrongdoer, and raise up those who do good. If murder becomes an acceptable part of society, is it a society anyone is safe in? What's next, the elderly? The disabled? Where does the right to take human life end?

We should seek to protect the most innocent among us - not kill them off.

Guns cannot jump up and kill anyone of its own accord. Abortion always ends in death.

Like I said, I find no fault in you believing what you believe and sowing the seeds you choose to sow. Just try to remember what you've sown during harvest time and be careful not to blame Satan when you reap eggplants, when you desire to reap oranges....

 

[chevyontheriver]

You all should have stayed. We really need some consistent life ethic folk in the DNC, especially now with the euthanasia craze waiting in the wings.

I hung on for what seemed like an eternity while being marginalized, going to caucuses and having the abortionistas try to ensure that not a one of us pro-life people had a shot at being a delegate. Having a parliamentary fight at each caucus over this every time. And then managing for a few of us to be delegates to the next level only to have the same fight over again. I grew tired of the fight.

There was one prominent pro-life Democrat who ran for congress in my district. I did some tech support help for her candidacy. But she was opposed by her own party, so we were working uphill all the way against the party at a time the party should have been neutral.

I joined up with the Republicans for a while and I never saw that level of partisanship. Not against the pro-choice people, who were tolerated. The Republicans (then at least) had a big tent policy and the Democrats had a pup tent policy.

I know there are a few Democrats for Life out there. I find them quixotic. Especially considering the recent comments by Bernie and by Mayor Pete which are quite clear in saying that pro-life people are not wanted. I don't see where there is room for pro-life people in the Democratic policy. To my mind that means there is no room for me in the Democratic policy.

I thought sanity might prevail amidst the Republicans. That was only half true. They want the votes of the pro-life people but have put us off for 50 years. Then came Trump. Because of Trump I can no longer be Republican, but at least he is pushing for the pro-life side. Odd that, given his past. Anyhow, I have moved on.

I can't see myself ever going back to being a Democrat. Mostly because the sort of Humphrey Democrat I was has become rare indeed, maybe extinct. The party has become stridently pro-abortion, abandoning even the clintonesque slogan of abortion as 'safe, legal, and rare'. They dropped the 'rare' part. What I want to see is for the Democrats and the Republicans to fade out and be replaced by newer and (maybe) less crazy parties. I want a centrist party, which is why I'm interested in the American Solidarity Party. My view is that the parties of Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum no longer serve the interests of the Republic and are actually becoming dangerous to the Republic.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Just look around.

Every single person you are condemning right now...Everyone who you are falsely accusing right now....All that you are looking down one right now........where once UNBORN fetuses who you, now say, you cared so much for.....BEFORE they were born. Now look how you are treating us?

You love them until they stop believing what you believe....then you will condemn them and forget that you loved them and fought for their lives 15, 20 30 years ago?

The ones you are so vehemently fighting for now.....you will call a murderer if they are raped at 16 and couldnt bear the child.

This is nonsense. We are just deceiving ourselves.

There is no way that you can Love the unborn or the unseen, and hate your neighbor.

Fetuses need love and support from those with the love of God.....a love that stands the test of time and differences of opinions and beliefs.

I don't hate you, not have I ever lifted a hand against you.

That's a wild accusation if I've ever seen one.

My daughter was raped, and she chose life for her child. When she decided she couldn't do it, she gave my granddaughter to me to raise, and raise and love her I did.

Then my daughter one day changed her mind, and chose to raise her child - and I turned over this child I loved as much as life itself for her mother to raise. And I supported my daughter in every way I could possibly support her through it all..

So where is this hate? If citing God's law and God's Word is hate (on a Christian forum no less while speaking to professing Christians), I find that a sad thing, for someone to see what God speaks as hate.