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Featured The hypocrisy of being "pro-life"

Discussion in 'Debates on Abortion' started by ChristianForCats, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats Saved by Christ

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    Over and over again so-called "pro-lifers" say two things that butt against each other:
    1. Contraception is a form of abortion, especially the morning after pills (Plan B).
    2. There is no reason to have an abortion because women can use contraception.
    Uh, what? People want women to prevent unwanted pregnancies but not use the devices which were invented solely for that purpose. You can't have it both ways. If you do not want anybody to use contraception, you must love abortions of unwanted embryos and fetuses because using contraceptive pills and devices prevents them.

    I also have seen "pro-lifers" speak out against mandatory sex education, which is the only way to make sure all girls and boys learn about contraception and abstinence. Again, if you want all girls and women to avoid having unwanted pregnancies, you must support this requirement for health teachers in every public and private school.

    Reducing abortions will not happen by making them illegal. All that would do is make most abortions very dangerous, even life-threatening. It will not reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies. If you want the number of abortions to be nearly zero you must support everything that would effectively reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies because desperate women will seek untrained people to remove fetuses out of their bodies.

    So what do you want, fewer unwanted pregnancies or a lot of sick women occupying jail cells?
     
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  2. Steve97

    Steve97 Active Member

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    I am a Christian and I can only speak for myself.
    I believe women have several choices regarding their sexuality (1.) abstinence (2.) birth control (3.) adoption (4.) motherhood.

    I don't want women killing their babies.
     
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  3. Credos4Christ

    Credos4Christ 7 days without prayer makes 1 weak.

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    It really depends on a person's ethics. If someone believes in deontological ethics (e.g "an act which is wrong is wrong based on X set of principles"), abortion is an intrinsic evil and cannot be justified despite whatever consequences, whether positive or negative, may become of it.

    From the time of the first and second centuries, the Letter of Barnabas (approx. c. 70-130 AD) and the Didache (c. 70 AD) condemned abortions on the basis that human life began at conception. All humans, created in the image of God, have a right to live out their lives unimpeded. Babies, whether in the womb or just delivered, are therefore humans whose lives ought to be protected.

    Furthermore, the common justifications for abortion boil down to (1) rape, (2) incest and (3) [risk to the] life of the mother. But according to the Guttmacher Institute, "just 1% of women obtain an abortion" because they are raped, and 0.5% because of incest. Relationship problems, financial stress and 'not wanting big changes' are actually cited far more often (48%, 73% and 74% respectively).

    When it comes to contraception, for most 'pro-lifers' this is a question of sexual morality. That is to say, sex is an act binding together a man and a woman in their love, and biologically speaking we use our reproductive organs to create offspring and sustain human life. With contraception, people may have sex out of wedlock, in acts of lust, and often underage. This creates a sort of 'sexual culture'.
     
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  4. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats Saved by Christ

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    Pro-choicers actually have other reasons: the mother's socioencomimc situaion, suffering only because of her unwanted pregnancy, and fetuses that will have special needs their entire lives (which are difficult for a woman to adopt out, not just take care of herself). But what I want to focus on now is people saying an unwanted pregnancy can be prevented, but at the same time opposing every method of preventing those pregnancies. Fewer unwanted pregnancies = fewer abortions every time. That is elementary math.
     
  5. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    (That's not "speaking only for yourself" at all.)
     
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  6. Credos4Christ

    Credos4Christ 7 days without prayer makes 1 weak.

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    I believe the statistic I cited (i.e the 73% citing finances) already covers the "socioeconomic" bases for women 'justifying' their abortions. Moreover, when it comes to "unwanted pregnancy" we have to define our terms. Does this mean a woman who became accidentally pregnant? A woman who was raped? In the case of the former, an accident doesn't reduce the value of the life created by it; 1% of abortions are performed due to rape, which I already referenced.

    As it relates to 'fetuses that will have special needs': I think it's abhorrent to abort a child because they will come into the world having a disability. Our society's belief that disabled children are "less-than" is the reason 67% of women whose unborn child received a prenatal diagnosis for Down Syndrome went through with aborting them. Basing the decision to abort a child on their disability is a very lethal form of discrimination. Each of us possesses a human value regardless of dis/ability. We're all God's children.
     
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  7. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats Saved by Christ

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    If pro-lifers support mandatory sex education, they would in turn support any effort to prevent unwanted pregnanciest that lead to women having abortions. An unwanted pregnancy is a pregnancy the woman or girl did not want, of course. Whether she does not want a kid "right now" or can't take care of one at that time, it is an unwanted pregnancy. Do you support preventing unwanted pregnancies however possible or just calling women who have abortions murderers?
     
  8. Silmarien

    Silmarien Existentialist

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    I'm not associated with the pro-life movement, because I think that the use of state force makes abortion more common, since it exacerbates rather than mitigates the huge social issues underlying the problem. I do believe that modern pro-choice rhetoric amounts to the normalization of violence, but there's an ideological war going on here that I don't really think can be waged effectively in the courts.

    The contraception issue strikes me as a false flag, though. I had a friend in college who had an abortion while on birth control, apparently because an antibiotic had interfered with it. I don't have moral issues with contraception, but citing it as an alternative to abortion just reinforces the idea that the only moral responsibility anyone has is to take reasonable steps to prevent conception, which I think is one of the underlying problems here in the first place.
     
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  9. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    Note that those who are Pro-choice can believe the same two arguments you mentioned. e.g. they are general arguments not related to one side or the other.

    Careful not to create the same box that they try to create.....saying that those who are pro choice are for abortions.

    The only difference between the sides is that one side believes that all should be forced to follow what they believe, and the other feels that everyone should be free to make their own choice even if it is deemed wrong in their own eyes.

    There are many people who make the arguments you mentioned on both sides.....They are not Pro-life arguments.
     
  10. Credos4Christ

    Credos4Christ 7 days without prayer makes 1 weak.

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    Brilliantly stated! :)
     
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  11. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    People say that but special needs adoptions are not picked up by Pro-Life avocates. It should be the main focus of all pro-life groups. But adoption is not even a program of theirs.
     
  12. Akita Suggagaki

    Akita Suggagaki Well-Known Member

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  13. Cis.jd

    Cis.jd Well-Known Member

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    Pro-choice are one of the biggest examples of why the modern day left are insane.

    Most of these pro-choice also block people like me from buying frozen white castle burgers (yes, I love this stuff) at a grocery store. Because.. vegan! So let me get this straight, you leftists are all "wohoo no more babies!!" yet get all protective towards cows? What is that? I am a huge animal lover too BTW.


    This reminds me of the Academy Awards where this Michelle Williams made a speech about abortion being in a women's best interest in 2020.. it's time for them to be empowered and achieved success.
    How stupid is that? So abortion is needed for achieving success, seriously? No studying, hard work, just get knocked up and kill it?

    I understand that not everyone believes in the same morals but can it not be reasoned with such absurdity?

    Sorry: I meant pro-choice. not pro-life
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
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  14. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats Saved by Christ

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    Actually not all pro-choicers believe in unlimited abortions. People can be "pro-choice" and oppose all late term abortions that are not medically necessary. Thanks to a few CF members I no longer support second trimester abortions that are not medically necessary.
     
  15. Silmarien

    Silmarien Existentialist

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    Don't tell NARAL.
     
  16. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats Saved by Christ

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    I don't even know what NARAL is.
     
  17. Credos4Christ

    Credos4Christ 7 days without prayer makes 1 weak.

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    I'd love to see data on this! (As far as I know, little if any direct statistics exist on that subject.)

    Just eye-balling the premise, I can spitball two possible explanations:

    1. 'Pro-lifers' have a lower rate of need to adopt, as they tend to be traditional and therefore (unless infertile) are probably more likely to have biological children.
    2. The foster-care system is severely underfunded, underregulated and badly mismanaged, which leads to abuses and inefficiencies that don't afford children the families and care they need.
     
  18. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats Saved by Christ

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    Not surprised. One woman who had an abortion said both she and her husband were using contraception. High schools teach "abstinance only" by telling students what the effectivenss of each method is, pointing out none of them are 100 percent effecitive.
     
  19. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Check every Pro-Life website and see if they mention adoptions. (Some do have small programs of support)

    National Right to Life | The nation's oldest & largest
    Pro-Life Action League
    March for Life: Home
    Pro-Life Action Ministries


     
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  20. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats Saved by Christ

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    I addressed that issue last year. For some reason only SPF was interested. He said the only way to fix it is change laws. I agree.

    Is that your dog?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
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