The history of how Sunday worship came about

[prodromos]

Bottom line---the Sabbath is a commandment

It is, to the Jews. There is zero evidence that anyone from Adam up until the exodus from Egypt, kept the Sabbath, nor that it was a requirement.

 

[tall73]

The writer of a book decides what it says, what it means.

And who it is for.

Exo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

And who it is for.

Exo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

The New Covenant was made with the house of Israel too. Jeremiah 31:31-33 Jesus was king of the Jews and made Sabbath just for them. Mark 2:27 Sabbath was made for man. I guess Jesus meant to say Jews. Weird God would have one will for Jews and one will for everyone else despite being told in scripture there is only one Gospel. Jesus taught about the Sabbath throughout the NT- but I guess those examples are meant only for Jews too. Best to just toss the Bible out because according to your philosophy it wasn’t written for you. Meanwhile, since I am of God’s people and part of God’s Israel (spiritually) I will continue to believe in the whole bible, not just parts of it that I feel do not apply to me. We will be worshipping Jesus on the New Earth on His Sabbath Isaiah 66:23 so I guess Jesus is only saving Jews or do you think heaven will be segregated -Jews worship Him on Sabbath on the New Earth and everyone else any day they choose? How confusing would that be? There will be no sin in Heaven which is why Lucifer was tossed out. God kept the Ten Commandments in the most holy of holy in His Temple, by design. It’s His will which includes the 4th commandment that is the only commandment that has the word “holy” in it and the only one God specifically said “REMEMBER”.

 

[The Liturgist]

I could care less what anyone's opinion is----God's command trumps anyone's opinion. I will do as God says---you are certainly free to do as you please.

The point is that your interpretation of God’s command is wrong, and these quotes from early Church Fathers, who all predated Constantine, expose the Adventist idea that Constantine was responsible for Sunday worship and that it was not mainstream before his rule, to be nonsense, as of course does the fact that the Assyrian Church of the East, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, the Armenian Orthodox Church, the Georgian Orthodox Church, and the St. Thomas Christians in Malankara, India, such as the Indian Orthodox Church and the Malankara Jacobite Orthodox Church, all worship on Sunday.

One early SDA scholar tried to claim that one of them was Sabbatarian, which was amusing to me, because I am infinitely familiar with those churches.

 

[The Liturgist]

The New Covenant was made with the house of Israel too. Jeremiah 31:31-33 Jesus was king of the Jews and made Sabbath just for them. Mark 2:27 Sabbath was made for man. I guess Jesus meant to say Jews. Weird God would have one will for Jews and one will for everyone else despite being told in scripture there is only one Gospel. Jesus taught about the Sabbath throughout the NT- but I guess those examples are meant only for Jews too. Best to just toss the Bible out because it wasn’t written for you. Meanwhile, since I am of God’s people and part of God’s Israel (spiritually) I will continue to believe in the whole bible, not just parts of it that I feel do not apply to me. We will be worshipping Him on the New Earth on His Sabbath Isaiah 66:23 so I guess Jesus is only saving Jews or do you think heaven will be segregated -Jews worship Him on Sabbath on the New Earth and everyone else any day they choose?

First of all, that’s debatable - there may be only two commandments. But secondly, as reflected by the fact that one Sabbatarian member actually reversed the statement of Jesus Christ that the Sabbath was made for man, not vice versa, and claimed man was made for the Sabbath, not vice versa, there is much Biblical evidence to suggest your interpretation of that commandment is wrong. And thirdly, your statement that observing the Sabbath is required for salvation contradicts the New Testament almost entirely.

Why do you and other Sabbatarian members keep ignoring New Testament verses we posted and then complain about us not quoting the Bible? Why aren’t we talking about John 3:16? Why did someone imply they did not believe Matthew 16:18 and the divinely delegated authority of clergy to bind and loose sins? Why won’t anyone engage with 2 Thessalonians where St. Paul says not to judge people on, among other things, their observance of Sabbaths?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

First of all, that’s debatable - there may be only two commandments. But secondly, as reflected by the fact that one Sabbatarian member actually reversed the statement of Jesus Christ that the Sabbath was made for man, not vice versa, and claimed man was made for the Sabbath, not vice versa, there is much Biblical evidence to suggest your interpretation of that commandment is wrong. And thirdly, your statement that observing the Sabbath is required for salvation contradicts the New Testament almost entirely.

Why do you and other Sabbatarian members keep ignoring New Testament verses we posted and then complain about us not quoting the Bible? Why aren’t we talking about John 3:16? Why did someone imply they did not believe Matthew 16:18 and the divinely delegated authority of clergy to bind and loose sins? Why won’t anyone engage with 2 Thessalonians where St. Paul says not to judge people on, among other things, their observance of Sabbaths?

I switched one word on a scripture because I quoted by memory and corrected it and told you I corrected it and you’re now really going to bring this up again? The scripture in question Mark 2:27 proves the very post you are responding to that the Sabbath was made for man, which means all, the typo in my post did not change the sentiment in my post, but I appreciate you pointing the typo out now for the second time.

Also, maybe you can quote where I have ever said keeping the Sabbath is a requirement for salvation. Sin is defined by breaking God's laws. 1 John 3:4 The 4th commandment is part of God's laws. Exodus 20 We are not saved by our works (actions) we are judged by them according to scripture. We are saved by God's grace (His gift) though our faith. Please stop misquoting me. Thank you.

Lastly, Peter in the Bible is not who created the Catholic church. The Catholic church is not the rock, Jesus is the Rock and His church is built on His Word. You can feel free to obey commandments of the Catholic church, but I will stick with the Word of God, which is pure and a shield to those who put trust in Him. Proverbs 30:5,6 . God bless

 

[klutedavid]

Also, maybe you can quote where I have ever said keeping the Sabbath is a requirement for salvation. Sin is defined by breaking God's laws. 1 John 3:4

Sin is defined in other ways also, not just transgression of the law.

The 4th commandment is part of God's laws.

Correct.

We are not saved by our works (actions) we are judged by them according to scripture. We are saved by God's grace (His gift) though our faith.

Could you explain this comment of yours.

We are not saved by works but we are judged by them. We are saved by God's grace.

Are you saying that if we sin or have no works, then God's grace is insufficient to save?

Do you believe the following verse is untrue?

Acts 2:21
‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sin is defined in other ways also, not just transgression of the law.

I am surprised you agree that sin is defined as transgression of the law 1 John 3:4 and I agree with you, it's defined in other ways too. According to scripture James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

These two scriptures are a very good illustration of the one verse you quoted Acts 2:21. If you only read 1 John 3:4 you would think that is the only way to sin, but in a whole different chapter sin is defined in a much broader sense. Does James 4:17 wipe out 1 John 3:4 or does it build on it? This is what I see so much on these posts. The Bible is one fluid book that has no contradictions, just grave misunderstandings. You can't cherry pick one verse and think it deletes all other verses, it builds on it typically and you have to read things in context.

So do you believe all you have to do to be saved is call on the name of the Lord and that's it?
Acts 2:21‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

How many times have we read in a news article that someone killed someone else because the "lord" told them to. If that person died during their ravage murder will they be saved because they called on the Lord?

So is there more to being saved than calling on the name of the Lord according to the Bible?

Jesus was asked this exact question and His answer was this:

Mathew 19 :17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself

Jesus quoted directly from the Ten Commandments. So does the verse in Acts 2:21 trump what Jesus says or does it build on it? Wait there is more! If you keep reading in Mathew Jesus has more to say.

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

This rich man might of been another disciple of Jesus but he choose His riches over following Jesus. Will this man be in Heaven? Jesus gave him the opportunity to follow Him, but he turned down Jesus because he put His will above our Savior's.

The bible is filled with many chapters on how we are saved. It's not a line here or there, the whole book is a map how to follow Jesus and make His will our will. The problem is most believe in Jesus, say they love Jesus but when it comes to really putting God's will above their own, they can't seem to let go and allow God's will to lead their life. That's why Jesus said:

Mathew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

We are not saved by works but we are judged by them. We are saved by God's grace.

Are you saying that if we sin or have no works, then God's grace is insufficient to save?

No, God's grace is 100% sufficient to save. The part I think a lot of people get confused with is how we are judged versus how we are saved. We are all sinners in need of a Savior, but we will be judge on our actions according to scriptures. Romans 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 1 Corinthians 4:5, 1 Peter 1:17, Revelation 20:12, Psalms 62:12, Colossians 3:25, 1 Corinthians 3:8, Proverbs 11:31

Does the Bible teach all will be saved? Jesus died for each of us and wants to save each of us. When we sin it deeply hurts our Savior who laid down His life just to save each person. Many don't accept this free gift. Are we told the majority find the narrow path that enters into life or the minority?

Jesus said: Mathew 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

The scriptures talk a lot about our actions.
1 James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

One of the last scriptures in the bible: Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

We all sin, but with the Help of Jesus He provides us the Holy Spirit to keep us from sinning. John 14: 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

There will be no sin in heaven but we will have free will. We should all put God's will above our own and follow in the footsteps of Jesus.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
No wonder He tells us that for all eternity after the cross, in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Still not quoting the whole text Bob?

Yes I like sticking with the main salient point applicable to the discussion.

So that means when discussing the info about Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 - I don't jump back to "King of Babylon" in Isaiah 14:4 - so as not to spin the reader around on the point that OT types work that way with local events and characters while they point specifically at future macro salvation history details.

It means I don't jump back to "king of Tyre" in Ez 28:11 when he gives information about "The covering Cherub" "created perfect" in Ez 28:13-19 - so as not to spin the reader around on the point that OT types work that way with local events and characters while they point specifically at future macro salvation history details.

Which means we get to "focus on the details" of Is 66:23 that some are so anxious not to highlight.

Isa 66:23 from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

How interesting that in the New Earth it is "ALL MANKIND" keeping the Sabbath and that there are TWO cycles (monthly AND weekly) in the New Earth where as there is only one cycle now - weekly

Two details in vs 23 that "wont surface" if someone needs to avoid them.

Adventists don't believe that in the new heaven and new earth there will be dead bodies

We do believe that it will be here on Earth and the dust and ashes that remain of those dead bodies will still exist in the New Earth. A side trivia point obviously - but as good as any if one is not all that interested in the main inconvenient details of vs 23.

And as we see in Isaiah 65 - Isaiah was not predicting only-doom for Israel since the 490 years of probation for the nation of Israel mentioned in Dan 9 had not ended. All the more "side details" if we don't want to look at vs 23.

 

[tall73]

Weird God would have one will for Jews and one will for everyone else despite being told in scripture there is only one Gospel. Jesus taught about the Sabbath throughout the NT- but I guess those examples are meant only for Jews too. Best to just toss the Bible out because according to your philosophy it wasn’t written for you. Meanwhile, since I am of God’s people and part of God’s Israel (spiritually) I will continue to believe in the whole bible, not just parts of it that I feel do not apply to me.

Already posted responses on most of that. There is one gospel. And gentiles are included in the promises per Peter. However, the council made it clear that gentiles didn't have to follow the law of Moses.

Moreover, Adventists do not in fact do all of the Bible, or all that was required of Israel. The following are statutes forever for Israel:

Lev 23:14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute
forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.


Lev 23:21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.

Lev 23:31 Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.
Lev 23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.


The Jewish believers continued keeping the whole law per Acts 21, and were zealous for it. And Paul still wanted to try to go to the pilgrim feast:

Act 20:16 For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.

We will be worshipping Jesus on the New Earth on His Sabbath Isaiah 66:23 so I guess Jesus is only saving Jews or do you think heaven will be segregated -Jews worship Him on Sabbath on the New Earth and everyone else any day they choose? How confusing would that be?

We may well be, since Jewish believers continued to keep all the law. But Adventists are not assembling on the new moon, and the text includes that as well.

And it includes some other elements Adventists don't see in the new heaven and new earth:

Isa 66:19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
Isa 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
Isa 66:21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Adventists don't believe that in the new heaven and new earth there will be dead bodies, because they believe that the fire will consume them and the earth will be purified.

Adventists know Jesus is not of the tribe of Levi, and God won't need "some" to be Levites and priests because we are all priests in the new covenant who go directly to Jesus at the throne of grace.

Adventists don't assemble on the new moon.

Adventists don't think in the new heaven and new earth that the gentile nations will bring back exiled Jews to Jerusalem. They believe that the new Jerusalem will come down and all the saved will already be in it.

This text is clearly talking about something else. I spelled out in the other thread what I thought that was.

Now it may not make sense to you that Jews and Gentiles, though under one gospel, had different guidelines given by the council. But it certainly made sense to them.

The Jewish believers would not make any headway in evangelizing fellow Jews if they were not observant of the law. And Jesus is what the law pointed to, so they continued keeping all of it.

On the other hand gentiles would not benefit from requiring all to be physically circumcised, begin observing appointed times, etc. so it was not required.

But both were in Christ, and both were serving Him faithfully. And both continued to meet together. And yes, often that was on Sabbath, in the synagogue. Because that was where the Scriptures were read, and scrolls were expensive and hard to come by, and many could not read. So until they were put out of the synagogue they would usually go there.

And the text in Acts 20 does suggest regular meeting on the first day, though the question mark there is that Paul was leaving the next day. But the initial part sounds like a formula, and we know this happened soon after anyway from other sources.

They needed a time for specifically Christian instruction which wasn't available in most cases in the synagogue. Sunday in the evening portion was a time that would allow those who were common workers to still meet and not miss work.

Now the Sabbath is listed among the appointed times, as I noted earlier, in Ezekiel 45. And it is included in the list of appointed times in Colossians. It was a sign with Israel of their sanctification (Ex. 31) (ongoing and forward), of their redemption from Egypt (Deut 5), and of creation (Ex. 31 and Ex. 20). It is a shadow as were the rest, as the whole law was given to direct us to Christ.

We still understand that the moral aspects of the law are required. But the Sabbath was ceremonial, a sign, and had sacrifices associated with it, and is not one of the laws that if one does them they will live. It was a sign with Israel in addition per Ezekiel 20.

There are moral laws in the ten, and moral laws outside the ten.

There are ceremonial laws outside the ten, and there is one clearly ceremonial law in the ten, the sign given to Israel.

Romans 14 also spells out:

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6a He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it

There will be no sin in Heaven which is why Lucifer was tossed out. God kept the Ten Commandments in the most holy of holy in His Temple, by design. It’s His will which includes the 4th commandment that is the only commandment that has the word “holy” in it and the only one God specifically said “REMEMBER”.

OF course they were to remember, as it was a sign with them. And we keep the righteous requirements of the law through the Spirit.

The only difference in what you are doing and what we are doing is that you do not see the Sabbath as an appointed time. But it was. And it was a shadow.

 

[BobRyan]

And who it is for.

Exo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Kind of like Jeremiah telling us that the New Covenant is just for Israel and Judah Jer 31:3-34 (unchanged in the NT - Heb 8:6-12)

But as we see - the Sabbath is for all mankind Mark 2:27 Is 66:23 - and Israel is part of mankind.

 

[BobRyan]

Already posted responses on most of that. There is one gospel. And gentiles are included in the promises per Peter. However, the council made it clear that gentiles didn't have to follow the law of Moses.

Moreover, Adventists do not in fact do all of the Bible, or all that was required of Israel. The following are statutes forever for Israel:

Lev 23:14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute
forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

What is supposedly "just Adventists" is in fact Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate in almost all major Christian denominations agreeing that the TEN commandments (all TEN) are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant - but the civil and ceremonial laws are not.

for one small example list we have --

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

And of course 7th day groups

• Seventh-day Baptists
• Seventh-day Adventists
• (and 100's of others)

Do we need to mention that?

 

[tall73]

Yes I like sticking with the main salient point applicable to the discussion.

So that means when discussing the info about Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 - I don't jump back to "King of Babylon" in Isaiah 14:4 - so as not to spin the reader around on the point that OT types work that way with local events and characters while they point specifically at future macro salvation history details.

It means I don't jump back to "king of Tyre" in Ez 28:11 when he gives information about "The covering Cherub" "created perfect" in Ez 28:13-19 - so as not to spin the reader around on the point that OT types work that way with local events and characters while they point specifically at future macro salvation history details.

Which means we get to "focus on the details" of Is 66:23 that some are so anxious not to highlight.

Isa 66:23 from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

How interesting that in the New Earth it is "ALL MANKIND" keeping the Sabbath and that there are TWO cycles (monthly AND weekly) in the New Earth where as there is only one cycle now - weekly

So you are not of course assembling on the new moon. Bob, all you did was pick the only part of that whole thing you wanted to keep and ignored the rest.

And as I have said previously, I would not be surprised at all if we meet on the Sabbath and the new moon in the new earth. Because God gave it to Israel as a sign, and the Jewish believers went right on being zealous for the whole law and keeping it.

So apparently we will both be changing some habits if we get there and there is a new moon assembly and Sabbath assembly.

We do believe that it will be here on Earth and the dust and ashes that remain of those dead bodies will still exist in the New Earth. A side trivia point obviously - but as good as any if one is not all that interested in the main inconvenient details of vs 23.

No you don't. Let Ellen White explain:

While the earth was wrapped in the fire of destruction, the righteous abode safely in the Holy City. Upon those that had part in the first resurrection, the second death has no power. While God is to the wicked a consuming fire, He is to His people both a sun and a shield. Revelation 20:6; Psalm 84:11.

"I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away." Revelation 21:1. The fire that consumes the wicked purifies the earth. Every trace of the curse is swept away. No eternally burning hell will keep before the ransomed the fearful consequences of sin.

One reminder alone remains: Our Redeemer will ever bear the marks of His crucifixion. Upon His wounded head, upon His side, His hands and feet, are the only traces of the cruel work that sin has wrought.
Great Controversy chapter 42

The New Earth
On the new earth, in which righteousness dwells, God will provide an eternal home for the redeemed and a perfect envi-ronment for everlasting life, love, joy, and learning in His presence. For here God Himself will dwell with His people, and suffering and death will have passed away. The great controversy will be ended, and sin will be no more. All things, animate and inanimate, will declare that God is love; and He shall reign forever. Amen. (Isa. 35; 65:17-25; Matt. 5:5; 2 Peter 3:13; Rev. 11:15; 21:1-7;

Nor do you think that the gentile nations will bring Jews back from captivity, but rather you think the new Jerusalem will descend with all the believers:

The Millennium and the End of Sin
The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth. The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever. ( Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:18, 19; Mal. 4:1; 1 Cor. 6:2, 3; Rev. 20; 21:1-5.)

And as we see in Isaiah 65 - Isaiah was not predicting only-doom for Israel since the 490 years of probation for the nation of Israel mentioned in Dan 9 had not ended. All the more "side details" if we don't want to look at vs 23.

Don't stop there, explain all the side details.

 

[tall73]

Kind of like Jeremiah telling us that the New Covenant is just for Israel and Judah Jer 31:3-34 (unchanged in the NT - Heb 8:6-12)

But as we see - the Sabbath is for all mankind Mark 2:27 Is 66:23 - and Israel is part of mankind.

Man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was made for man. But it was specific people, and it doesn't say all mankind. It just uses the usual word for people. And the ones who He was talking to were Jewish, and were the ones it was given to.


Exo 31:13 “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”
Exo 31:18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

That is why no one is seen keeping it before Exodus 16.


And Jesus' use of the particular word here was to point out who He was.


Mar 2:27 And he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
Mar 2:28 So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.”


man, man, Son of Man,

Sabbath, Sabbath, Lord of the Sabbath.

He is making a word play to highlight who He is. He is the Son of Man, and the Lord of the Sabbath.

He was letting the Jewish people, who were judging Him regarding Sabbath keeping that He would be judging them on all things, because He is the Son of Man, and the Lord of the Sabbath.

The Sabbath is one of the appointed times, and is a shadow per Col. 2

 

[tall73]

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

Of course, they don't keep the Seventh-day Sabbath either.

And neither did these folks:

Justin Martyr Dialoge with Trypho
Moreover, all those righteous men already mentioned, though they kept no Sabbaths, were pleasing to God; and after them Araham with all his descendants until Moses

Irenaeus Against Heresies
And that man was not justified by these things, but that they were given as a sign to the people, this fact shows, that Abraham himself, without circumcision and without observance of Sabbaths, “believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness; and he was called the friend of
God.”

Tertullian An Answer to the Jews
Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised, and inobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering Him sacrifices, uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, was by Him commended; while He accepted what he was offering in simplicity of heart, and reprobated the sacrifice of his brother Cain, who was not rightly dividing what he was offering. Noah also, uncircumcised--yes, and inobservant of the Sabbath--God freed from the deluge. For Enoch, too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and in-observant of the Sabbath, He translated from this world; who did not first taste death, in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might by this time show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God. Melchizedek also, "the priest of the most high God," uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, was chosen to the priesthood of God. Lot, withal, the brother of Abraham, proves that it was for the merits of righteousness, without observance of the law, that he was freed from the conflagration of the Sodomites. But Abraham, was circumcised. Yes, but he pleased God before his circumcision; nor yet did he observe the Sabbath. For he had "accepted" circumcision; but such as was to be for "a sign" of that time, not for a prerogative title to salvation.

 

[mmksparbud]

I am arguing with your narrow minded interpretation.

It's as wide as God's on the subject. He states His mind and He means what He says.

 

[Clare73]

Yes, I could have phrased that better, I wasn’t meaning to be offensive. I do not understand your interpretation of some scriptures, but I should of stated that in a different way. My apologies. God bless.

May I be so bold as to make a point of grammar, regarding what is getting to be a very common error, and may be useful some day. . ."Should of" is "should have" or "should've."

 

[mmksparbud]

I quoted it for those interested. I also quoted God's command giving the Sabbath to Israel as a sign with them, of sanctification (which is future, not just past), of redemption, and of creation. And I noted that it is one of the appointed times with sacrifices. It is not one of the commands that was given that man might live, but a sign with Israel in the covenant made with them of the Lord's authority over them.

And I noted Colossians 2 that it is in the listing of appointed times with reference to food and drink offerings, and is a shadow pointing to Christ.

And I noted that Romans 14 makes it plain not to judge.

Yes, God had a special connection with a special people. But the commandment says "Remember." You do no "remember" something you've never had. But God set up the Sabbath at Creation. There were no Jews then. Don't know how many times it has to be pointed out, but OK---I'll point it out again.

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

By the time the Jews were a nation, they had been in Egypt 400 years. So---the admonition to remember. Why were the Jews set apart and given God's laws---they were supposed to be the light of the world. They were supposed to do what the Christians did later and spread it. The Messiah was going to come through them and they were to tell the whole world and be ready for Him. But they became exclusive instead of inclusive. And failed on all counts. They had a great mixed multitude with them, and the Sabbath applied to them and to anyone who joined them. The commandment itself said it: "nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:"
Thou shalt not murder---for the Jew only?
Thou shalt not steal---for the Jew only?
Thou shalt not commit adultery---for the Jew only?
Insert any commandment and tell me it applies only to the Jews! Ridiculous. They are the way God wants us to live---everyone, not just the Jews.
Believe whatever you want. I prefer to believe what the bible actually says and not in the vain philosophy of men. The commandment says what it is pointing to and it has been said many, many times.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

That's the trouble with these Sabbath threads. Everyone ends up repeating the same things over and over and over until we finally start walking way and shake the dust off. And it has been said several times. We do not judge---but we are told by Jesus that we are to spread His message and truth to all. We are not to keep silent when the word of God is being twisted. just to please those that would be vexed by pointing out the truth. We can 0nly voice the truth---we can not force anyone to do it, much less to believe it. Believe is between God and the individual.

Mat_10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

 

[mmksparbud]

It is, to the Jews. There is zero evidence that anyone from Adam up until the exodus from Egypt, kept the Sabbath, nor that it was a requirement.

Did Cain sin by killing Abel?
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

What is sin?

1Jn_3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom_4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Gen_39:9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

Joseph knew it was a sin against God to commit adultery with Potiphar's wife. Where there is no knowledge of wrong, there is no sin. The law of God was always in effect. Otherwise you are saying God killed all the people in the flood for doing what they did not know was wrong. You really think God is unjust?

 

[mmksparbud]

The point is that your interpretation of God’s command is wrong, and these quotes from early Church Fathers, who all predated Constantine, expose the Adventist idea that Constantine was responsible for Sunday worship and that it was not mainstream before his rule, to be nonsense, as of course does the fact that the Assyrian Church of the East, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, the Armenian Orthodox Church, the Georgian Orthodox Church, and the St. Thomas Christians in Malankara, India, such as the Indian Orthodox Church and the Malankara Jacobite Orthodox Church, all worship on Sunday.

One early SDA scholar tried to claim that one of them was Sabbatarian, which was amusing to me, because I am infinitely familiar with those churches.

And what SDA doesn't know that the RCC goes way back and exerted it's power long before Constantine? However, it is he that made a secular law out of a biblical concept and went against God by doing so. But the 7th day Sabbath was kept by the disciples and all the 1st Christians and were definitely persecuted for it--that is why those "church father's" wrote against them so much. However, we are not lead by the early writings of any denomination. Like Jesus, we prefer---"it is written." We follow God's scriptures, not the writings of men.