The Great Second Exodus

[Douggg]

Where do you get 'returning' from? We never leave Planet Earth and our destiny is to be with the Lord in Jerusalem and all of the holy Land.

Returning to earth from heaven in eternal life bodies. But not restricted to earth, and certainly not restricted to middle east in an expanded Israel. We will be like the angels in that regards, but made higher than the angels in Christ.

 

[jeffweedaman]

2 Peter 3:7 & 10 refer to the forthcoming terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath. Revelation 6:12-17
2 Peter 3:11-13 refer to the NH,NE which will come AFTER the Millennium. Revelation 21:1-7

There is no mention by Peter of a millennium though.
He does teach the old Heaven and earth passing in v10 and the hope of a new restored one in v11-13

So where does your millennium take place after v10??
If the old passes away at v10 then you must have this millennium taking place on the NHNE.....which is wrong.


[ Where do you get 'returning' from? ]
The exodus you speak of is a return to the holy land before the old passes away yes?.

 

[keras]

Returning to earth from heaven in eternal life bodies. But not restricted to earth, and certainly not restricted to middle east in an expanded Israel. We will be like the angels in that regards, but made higher than the angels in Christ.

What absolute unscriptural opinion and wrong beliefs!
People never go to heaven, Jesus said so; John 3:13. there is no 'rapture' away from the earth for anyone. Even the 2 Witnesses just go up to meet Jesus at His Return, as all those who remain will do as well. Matthew 24:30-31, 1 Thess 4:17

Made like angels and given immortality, does not happen until the Book of Life is opened; AFTER the Millennium.

So where does your millennium take place after v10??
If the old passes away at v10 then you must have this millennium taking place on the NHNE.....which is wrong.

The sequence is given - from Revelation 19:11 to the end of the Bible.
The Return of Jesus, [after all what is prophesied from Revelation 6:12 has occurred] then the Millennium and after that; the GWT Judgment.
Then finally; Eternity.

The exodus you speak of is a return to the holy land before the old passes away yes?.

The Great Second Exodus of all the Lords faithful people, will happen soon after all the holy Land area is cleared and cleansed by the Lord on His Day of fiery wrath. Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Zephaniah 1:1-16, +

 

[jeffweedaman]

The sequence is given - from Revelation 19:11 to the end of the Bible.
The Return of Jesus, [after all what is prophesied from Revelation 6:12 has occurred] then the Millennium and after that; the GWT Judgment.
Then finally; Eternity.

I would much prefer a more direct answer to post 42.

Where does your millennium take place.... on the old or the new?

 

[Douggg]

People never go to heaven, Jesus said so; John 3:13

Future prohibition about men going to heaven is not what Jesus was teaching in that verse.

In context, Jesus was telling Nicodemus no man could teach what He Jesus was teaching because no one else is qualified but Himself as the Son of God come down from heaven.

That men can go to heaven is implied in Matthew 6:18-21. Your heart is not in heaven? At least part of you is supposed to be there, right now, in spirit.

 

[jeffweedaman]

That men can go to heaven is implied in Matthew 6:18-21. Your heart is not in heaven? At least part of you is supposed to be there, right now, in spirit.

Yep


Heb 12
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.


Jesus is mediating something new, bought with a price we should never ignore..

 

[keras]

I would much prefer a more direct answer to post 42.

Where does your millennium take place.... on the old or the new?

On the old , but regenerated Earth.

All prophecy in the Bible is a little here a little there, only in Revelation do we have a proper sequence:
At the present time; up to the Fifth Seal.
Soon to come; the Sixth Seal world changer.
Then all the Judgments and punishments, incl Armageddon; until Jesus Returns.
Then the Millennium and after that, the Final judgment of everyone who has ever lived.

Why post Hebrews 12:22-24?
That scripture doesn't say anyone goes to live in heaven. Our names are enrolled there; in the Book of Life and when that Book is opened, after the Millennium, all whose names are found in it will receive immortality and will live with God and therefore in heaven; on earth. Revelation 21:1-7

 

[keras]

Future prohibition about men going to heaven is not what Jesus was teaching in that verse.

In context, Jesus was telling Nicodemus no man could teach what He Jesus was teaching because no one else is qualified but Himself as the Son of God come down from heaven.

That men can go to heaven is implied in Matthew 6:18-21. Your heart is not in heaven? At least part of you is supposed to be there, right now, in spirit.

Implied is it?
I am sure that if God intended to 'rapture' the Church, it would have been prophesied plainly.

The prophesies that do tell us what God has planned for our future, are all there in the Bible and ARE plainly stated.
Why don't people believe them?

 

[jeffweedaman]

On the old , but regenerated Earth.

That would be the NHNE.
The millennium takes place on the old, then the final judgment and opening of the Book of Life revealing those who are glorified....then the NHNE where righteousness dwells.

 

[keras]

The Land of Beulah:
Isaiah 62:1-2a For Zion’s sake, I shall not keep silent – until her victory shines forth, like the sunrise, her victory like a blazing torch. The nations will see your victory and their rulers your glory.

Isaiah prophesies for the sake of Zion; the holy Land. There will be a great victory, ‘like a blazing torch’ - a CME sunstrike over the attacking enemies. Isaiah 30:25-30 & 66:15-16, Psalms 11:4-6 The world will see it and be amazed. Jeremiah 33:6-16

Isaiah 62:2b-5 You will receive a new name, the Lord Himself will give it. You will be like a glorious crown in His hand. No more are you forsaken and your Land desolate. You will be called ‘Hephzibah’ and the Land, ‘Beulah’. For the Lord will delight in you and it will be like a marriage: He will rejoice over you as a bridegroom over his bride. ‘Hephzibah’ = My delight is in her. ‘Beulah’ = married. Isaiah 49:18

The Lord’s people, Christian Israelites will be gathered and settled into their heritage, all of the holy Land, in the new nation of Beulah. Wonderful promises to them of fertility and wealth. They will live in justice, peace and security, as He intended people to be.

Isaiah 62:6-7 Jerusalem, on your walls, I have posted watchmen, they will call out: You that invoke the Name of the Lord, do not rest and give no rest to the Lord until He makes Jerusalem a praise throughout the world.
The Hebrew word for ‘watchmen’, is ‘natzar’, the root word for Nazarene; literally all Christian believers. WE must not rest or let the Lord forget His people and His Land. Keep praying for our redemption and restoration. Ezekiel 36:24-28, Isaiah 52:7-9

Isaiah 62:8-9 The Lord has sworn to never again allow foreigners to take the produce of the Land, but you who give praises to Him will eat the grain and drink the wine, within My sacred courts.

After the great clearance in the Middle East, only His righteous people will be allowed to live there, those who love the Lord and obey Him. Isaiah 66:20-21, Ezekiel 20:38

Isaiah 62:10-11 Pass through the gates – clear a road for My people. Build a highway, remove the rocks and make a signal to guide the people. Proclaim to the ends of the earth, say to the offspring of Zion: See your deliverance comes, His reward is with Him and He will make recompense.
The great gathering of the Lord’s people – the second Exodus, will happen in the same manner as the first Exodus. Leaders [shepherds] will arise to guide the flock, in the spirit of Moses and Elijah. Jeremiah 3:14-15, Isaiah 58:11, Isaiah 43:5-7, Micah 4:6, Isaiah 49:9-13, Isaiah 51:3, Zechariah 8:11-12, Isaiah 40:1-5, Ezekiel 11:17

Isaiah 62:12 They will be called ‘The Holy people, the Redeemed of God’ and Jerusalem will be called ‘sought after, the City no longer forsaken’.

The Lord’s faithful Christian people: living in the Holy Land of Beulah, as He created them to live, being a ‘light to the nations’ and witnesses to His salvation. They will send out 144,000 missionaries to every people group, to preach the good news of the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19, 1 Peter 2:9-10, Acts 2:39, Jeremiah 31:23-34

Joel 2:23-27 People of Zion, rejoice – your God will recompense you for the years that others have ravaged your Land. You will again have plenty in your own Land. Then you will know that I am present in Israel and that I and no other am your God.
We will know the Lord is present by His deeds. Just as it was at the first Exodus. Must be before the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign.

 

[ShineyDays2]

https://www.christianforums.com/bible/revelation/6:17/

2 Peter 3:7 & 10 refer to the forthcoming terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath. Revelation 6:12-17
2 Peter 3:11-13 refer to the NH,NE which will come AFTER the Millennium. Revelation 21:1-7

Those two references are:

16) and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17) for the great day of their wrath is come; and who is able to stand?

These questions arise with your references to 2 Peter 3:7-13...

1) who are the "they" of verse 16 & 17?
2) what "great day" does verse refer to?
3) what "wrath" is to come in the future?​

Clearly you are not saying that born-again Christians go through God's wrath are you?

Therefore, there is nothing to fear for us on the Last Day (the Day of Judgment) nor is there to be a "LITERAL" temple nor a 1,000 year millennium in between that final event where both believers and unbelievers (along with those who are raised from their graves) stand before our God ----of which those who are not believers go the hell (after experiencing God wrath) and the believers go to heaven for eternity without experiencing God's wrath because they/we believed in the New Covenant promises.
https://www.christianforums.com/bible/revelation/6:17/

 

[keras]

These questions arise with your references to 2 Peter 3:7-13...
1) who are the "they" of verse 16 & 17?
2) what "great day" does verse refer to?
3) what "wrath" is to come in the future?
Clearly you are not saying that born-again Christians go through God's wrath are you?

We Christians will be on earth when God sends His fiery wrath; the Sixth Seal, but I see it as mostly affecting the Middle East region.
1 Peter 3:7 and 10-11 refer to that Day. A literal single day; Isaiah 9:14, Isaiah 29:5-6, Zechariah 3:9, +

1/ He says 'they; are the ignorant and unstable people, who misinterpret scripture to their own discredit. 2 Peter 3:16
[re-reading your post, I see you mean Revelation 6:18-17. There; it means all the ungodly peoples on earth, as Christians should know what is happening]

2/ The Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, the Sixth Seal event. Revelation 6:12-17
3/ First; could be very soon, will be the Lord's Day of wrath. Then a few years later, when the Temple is desecrated as prophesied in 2 Thess 2:4, this will commence God's wrath of the Great Tribulation; the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls, culminating in the 6th and 7th Bowls - the Battle of Armageddon when Jesus Returns. Revelation 16:12-17, Revelation 19:11-21
We are plainly told where the Christians will be during the 3 1/2 year, or 42 month, or 1260 day; Great Tribulation.
Revelation 12:14-17 says that those who kept faithful will be taken to a place of safety, the rest must remain in the holy Land. This scenario is also prophesied Daniel 11:32-33 and Zechariah 14:1-2.

Therefore, there is nothing to fear for us on the Last Day (the Day of Judgment) nor is there to be a "LITERAL" temple nor a 1,000 year millennium in between that final event where both believers and unbelievers (along with those who are raised from their graves) stand before our God ----of which those who are not believers go the hell (after experiencing God wrath) and the believers go to heaven for eternity without experiencing God's wrath because they/we believed in the New Covenant promises.

Those people who stand strong during all that must happen, do not have anything to fear as God promises them His protection. Isaiah 41:13, Isaiah 43:2, Zephaniah 2:3, + His wrath is directed at the ungodly peoples. Zephaniah 3:8

There WILL be a new Temple and a literal Millennium, when King Jesus will rule the world. These are clearly prophesied.
The Judgment of all who have ever lived, happens after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

We humans never go to heaven. At the end, God and therefore; heaven comes to us. Revelation 21:1-7

 

[mkgal1]

N.T. Wright - in my opinion - does an excellent job of succinctly describing the Second Exodus that Jesus led out of sin.

.....and, here, said a little differently as he's answering a question posed:​

 

[ShineyDays2]

There WILL be a new Temple and a literal Millennium, when King Jesus will rule the world. These are clearly prophesied.

Holding this view only makes the same mistake that the Jews who crucified Christ made -- they were not satisfied with a spiritual kingdom; they had to have a literal, worldly rule....which is the very reason God destroyed all brick and mortar temples and if that temple is constructed and sacrifices reinstated I have a strong feeling He will make sure it too will suddenly and "mysteriously" disappear!

 

[keras]

Holding this view only makes the same mistake that the Jews who crucified Christ made -- they were not satisfied with a spiritual kingdom; they had to have a literal, worldly rule....which is the very reason God destroyed all brick and mortar temples and if that temple is constructed and sacrifices reinstated I have a strong feeling He will make sure it too will suddenly and "mysteriously" disappear!

A far greater mistake is to ignore, or simply not see the many clearly stated Bible prophesies that do tell us there will be a new Temple in Jerusalem. 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Revelation 11:1

The prophetic Scriptures clearly predict that the Third Temple will be built and the sacrifices and offerings to God, will be reinstated, in the final years leading up to the Return of the Messiah. It is clear, too, that there will be more than just the Jewish people living in the Land of Greater Israel. All the Israelites from all 12 tribes of Israel, plus those grafted in, will migrate to New Israel soon after the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, the terrible Day of fire, earthquakes and storms, that will clear and cleanse most of the Middle East. Zephaniah 1:1-18, +

The whole scenario of the end times, has a logical sequence to it. Now in the latter days,, we can see how things are happening that will see a confederation of Islamic states and entities that will be motivated to get rid of the ‘ cancer ‘ in their midst, that is the State of Israel. The moment of their attack, is the moment that God will intervene. This great Day of the Lord, will take the form of a natural event: a Coronal Mass Ejection, a massive sunstrike of cosmic particles, causing intense heat and electrical storms. The attacking armies will be destroyed by their own weaponry, as they will all explode before firing, caused by an extreme Electro-Magnetic Pulse. Psalms 7:12-16, Habakkuk 3:14. Joel 3:4
This literally fulfils the prayer in Psalms 83:13-18

Many prophesies speak of the regeneration of the Land of Greater Israel, “in a very short while”, Isaiah 29:17, after this great clearance and cleansing of the entire area.

Christian Israelites- “His people, who love the Lord and follow in His ways” will then gather “on the mountains of Samaria”. This is described in Ezekiel 20:34-38, Psalms 107

Over 40 prophesies describe how God’s holy people, every faithful Christian, will live in peace and security in their own Land. At last, they will be as God originally intended, “a light to the nations”, they will “exemplify My Holiness for all to see”. Ezekiel 39:27-29 [The attack by Gog/ Magog will come during this period]

WE will build the Third Temple, Zechariah 6:15, and “the splendor of this latter House will surpass that of the former”. Haggai 2:9 Zechariah 8:9-13 has wonderful promises of restoration and redemption;
Courage! Do not lose heart!

 

[ShineyDays2]

The whole scenario of the end times, has a logical sequence to it. Now in the latter days,, we can see how things are happening that will see a confederation of Islamic states and entities that will be motivated to get rid of the ‘ cancer ‘ in their midst, that is the State of Israel. The moment of their attack, is the moment that God will intervene. This great Day of the Lord, will take the form of a natural event: a Coronal Mass Ejection, a massive sunstrike of cosmic particles, causing intense heat and electrical storms. The attacking armies will be destroyed by their own weaponry, as they will all explode before firing, caused by an extreme Electro-Magnetic Pulse. Psalms 7:12-16, Habakkuk 3:14. Joel 3:4
This literally fulfils the prayer in Psalms 83:13-18

Have you not just declared yourself to be a prophet as I understand that Pentecostalism claims is still in effect for this age?

 

[keras]

Have you not just declared yourself to be a prophet as I understand that Pentecostalism claims is still in effect for this age?

This reply isn't intelligible.

I do not claim to be any kind of prophet. I am a messenger, a proclaimer of the Prophetic Word, as my name means.

If you object to a new Temple, for example; how can you explain the scriptures I have presented?

 

[ShineyDays2]

The whole scenario of the end times, has a logical sequence to it. Now in the latter days,, we can see how things are happening that will see a confederation of Islamic states and entities that will be motivated to get rid of the ‘ cancer ‘ in their midst, that is the State of Israel. The moment of their attack, is the moment that God will intervene. This great Day of the Lord, will take the form of a natural event: a Coronal Mass Ejection, a massive sunstrike of cosmic particles, causing intense heat and electrical storms. The attacking armies will be destroyed by their own weaponry, as they will all explode before firing, caused by an extreme Electro-Magnetic Pulse. Psalms 7:12-16, Habakkuk 3:14. Joel 3:4
This literally fulfils the prayer in Psalms 83:13-18

Prophecy - Wikipedia - According to Wikipedia and other sources,

"Pentecostals believe prophecy and certain other gifts are once again being given to Christians. The Charismatic Movement also accepts spiritual gifts like speaking in tongues and prophecy."​

Prophetic word in the Apostolic-Prophetic Movement

"In the Apostolic-Prophetic Movement, a prophesy is simply a word delivered under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that accurately communicates God's "thoughts and intention".​

Quote: "things are happening that will see a confederation of Islamic states and entities that will be motivated to get rid of the ‘ cancer ‘ in their midst, that is the State of Israel."
Where do you see that in the Bible?

Is this not also a futuristic type of prophecy?

Quote: "This great Day of the Lord, will take the form of a natural event: a Coronal Mass Ejection, a massive sunstrike of cosmic particles, causing intense heat and electrical storms."​

a) Where do you see anything like:

"a Coronal Mass Ejection" predicted in the Bible? Or, "or a massive sunstrike of cosmic particles, causing intense heat and electrical storms"; ​

what verse specifically says that?

And again is this too not a futuristic type of prophecy?

Quote: "The attacking armies will be destroyed by their own weaponry, as they will all explode before firing, caused by an extreme Electro-Magnetic Pulse."​

b) What "attacking armies? What countries? What

"armies weaponry is going to explode before firing and end up causing an extreme Electro-Magnetic Pulse????"​

Prove these things in "a" and "b" as written/prophesied by you?

Where are these claims in 2 Thess. 2:1-4....or in 2 Peter3:7 below?

2Th 2:1-4 ~ "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, 2)not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3)Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, 4)who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (temple = Gk. "naos"- a non-literal brick and mortar temple.) To say otherwise is a deliberate twisting of scripture."​

2 Peter 3;7 ~ "But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist have been stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men."​

Those who honestly wish to be true to scripture in the future should never use this as their platform for a literal temple again after the truth of scripture has been brought to light.

 

[ShineyDays2]

Actually the Church I attend, is not 'Pentecostal',

Um, you do have yourself listed as "New Zealand - Pentecostal - married." It is not important to me; but you should not chastise anyone because you have mislead them. People normally put down their real denomination so that people have a basic idea of what that person believes....i.e. Catholics/pope, Baptist/baptism, Assemblies of God/ Charismatics, J.W.'s / enough said. You get the point.

As far as the other stuff goes, there are unlimited bizarre mis-interpretations of scripture when people base their beliefs on current events, politicians who have been labeled "the Antichrist", people not getting vaccinated because they have heard off-beat TV evangelists saying there is a microchip implanted in the vaccine. One person actually said that "Satan's DNA" was being injected into the vaccines." Want more bizarre things? Turn on your TV. One well know TV evangelist actually said they once "told a tornado to VAMOOSE and the tornado instantly vanished into the sky. All these things have been said by those who call themselves "Christian." Another venue I avoid are movies and books like those of Hal Lindsey and the Late Great Planet Earth movie.

As for you not adhering to what the scripture has revealed in 2 Thessalonians and how you intend to stick with what you want it to say even though it does blow your theology apart that is your call - not mine! To me that would be deceiving my readers. Have you not read 2 Timothy in the NT lately --- "rightly interpreting and preaching scripture" (paraphrased). I find it appalling that anyone would willing continue misleading hearers after knowing the word is intended to be of a "spiritual nature" rather than a "literal nature."

 

[keras]

Um, you do have yourself listed as "New Zealand - Pentecostal - married." It is not important to me; but you should not chastise anyone because you have mislead them. People normally put down their real denomination so that people have a basic idea of what that person believes....i.e. Catholics/pope, Baptist/baptism, Assemblies of God/ Charismatics, J.W.'s / enough said. You get the point.

I leave my designation as Pentecostal, as the best way to show that I don't conform to the rote traditions and false doctrines of the mainstream faiths.

As far as the other stuff goes, there are unlimited bizarre mis-interpretations of scripture when people base their beliefs on current events,

I base my beliefs on the Bible. But we do have the benefit of hindsight and modern knowledge. From all of it, we can understand what will soon happen, as God resets our civilization. He did it before, we are again 'as in the days of Noah'. We Christians should be ready physically and spiritually for all what the Prophets have said will happen.

As for you not adhering to what the scripture has revealed in 2 Thessalonians and how you intend to stick with what you want it to say even though it does blow your theology apart that is your call - not mine! To me that would be deceiving my readers. Have you not read 2 Timothy in the NT lately --- "rightly interpreting and preaching scripture" (paraphrased). I find it appalling that anyone would willing continue misleading hearers after knowing the word is intended to be of a "spiritual nature" rather than a "literal nature."

You have yet to properly address the scriptures or prove me wrong in any of my posts. All I have seen from you is your opinions and the parroted beliefs taught to you.
2 Thess 2:4 is clearly talking about a real Temple.
'naos' IS a Greek word for a shrine or temple. Strongs G3485