The Grand Canyon Supergroup

[dlamberth]

No, that would be your problem.

Uniformitarianism has evidential support. Catastrophism by Miracles has literally zero. i.e. You can not demonstrate your position. I can.

To get the full picture, it's not only catastrophe by miracles, it's also includes the clean up and re-arrangement afterward the event by miracles.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes, you can see the Supergroup from within the Grand Canyon.

I'm not buying it.

I said from a canoe on the Colorado River.

You're "from within the Grand Canyon" makes it look like I'm embedded into the Grand Canyon walls themselves.

 

[AV1611VET]

Could have. I don't know. But I do not think He would have erased evidence of the truth of what happened. No disturbing of the crime scene to hide the "crime." He may have had .to work things up to allow for the survival of the Ark passengers. He can do anything. Except lie.

Okay.

Thanks for an honest answer.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, that would be your problem.

Uniformitarianism has evidential support. Catastrophism by Miracles has literally zero. i.e. You can not demonstrate your position. I can.

Well, I see you're an atheist, so I guess using my favorite example of Adam's rib isn't going to help much.

But for the record, when God made a mess of Adam's side to remove one of his ribs, I'm sure he cleaned up the mess so effectively that not even a scar was there.

Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

Eve had to believe -- by faith -- what God and Adam told her.

 

[AV1611VET]

To get the full picture, it's not only catastrophe by miracles, it's also includes the clean up and re-arrangement afterward the event by miracles.

Ya -- it's called "cleaning up."

How would you like it if they pulled your car out of the mud and did a half-hearted job cleaning it up?

 

[dlamberth]

Ya -- it's called "cleaning up."

How would you like it if they pulled your car out of the mud and did a half-hearted job cleaning it up?

Is that how God considers the Earth...like a car?

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Well, I see you're an atheist, so I guess using my favorite example of Adam's rib isn't going to help much.

But for the record, when God made a mess of Adam's side to remove one of his ribs, I'm sure he cleaned up the mess so effectively that not even a scar was there.

Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

Eve had to believe -- by faith -- what God and Adam told her.

This literally has no bearing whatsoever on this topic. I know you think it does, but it just doesn't. You can't demonstrate any claim that you're making. Not even a little. Me being an atheist doesn't even matter here. Everything you're saying is literally indemonstrable and useless as far as learning anything about how reality works. Your claims of god "cleaning up" and whatnot are, quite frankly, nonsensical and ridiculous.

 

[AV1611VET]

This literally has no bearing whatsoever on this topic. I know you think it does, but it just doesn't. You can't demonstrate any claim that you're making. Not even a little. Me being an atheist doesn't even matter here. Everything you're saying is literally indemonstrable and useless as far as learning anything about how reality works. Your claims of god "cleaning up" and whatnot are, quite frankly, nonsensical and ridiculous.

You just can't believe what you're hearing, can you?

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

You just can't believe what you're hearing, can you?

Absolutely.

 

[doubtingmerle]

I'm not buying it.

I said from a canoe on the Colorado River.
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You're "from within the Grand Canyon" makes it look like I'm embedded into the Grand Canyon walls themselves.

Buy it.

Here is a picture from the book I referenced.

Across the top you can see horizontal layers. These are Cambrian and younger, commonly thought by "flood geologists" to be flood deposits. Below them you can see a distinct light line, the Great Unconformity. Below that are the tilted Grand Canyon Supergroup layers. Below that are the Vishnu Basement Rocks.

By the way the layers above the Great Unconformity are much thicker on the western Grand Canyon when viewed from a distance.

All this is visible with the naked eye. Believe!

 

[AV1611VET]

Buy it.

Nope.

Compare your picture with the drawing in Post 1, where those layers are so tilted, they look like two wedges.

But in your photograph, I don't see those "wedges" at all.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Nope.

Compare your picture with the drawing in Post 1, where those layers are so tilted, they look like two wedges.

But in your photograph, I don't see those "wedges" at all.

You're being obtuse. Of course there is no actual photograph where you can see directly what the drawing represents. It's a depiction of a cross-section of earth that, if you were able to slice it like a loaf of bread, would be what would probably be seen. That cross-section was inferred using the methods I pointed out earlier.

But you can clearly see in actual photographs like the one provided and in person, the tilted layers in many, many parts of the canyon. It's there, it's real and it disputes everything you believe about this topic.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's there, it's real and it disputes everything you believe about this topic.

Pictures are nice.

They are worth a thousand words.

It's the interpretations I have issues with.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Nope.

Compare your picture with the drawing in Post 1, where those layers are so tilted, they look like two wedges.

But in your photograph, I don't see those "wedges" at all.

I don't see no fossils! I don't see no transitionals! I don't see no wedge!

Perhaps you should look more closely.

 

[AV1611VET]

Perhaps you should look more closely.

Nice parallel lines.

Where are those two 20° wedges you posted in your OP?

You even circled them in red.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Nice parallel lines.

Where are those two 20° wedges you posted in your OP?

You even circled them in red.

Again, the layers above the Great Uncomformity (blue line) are horizontal. The layers below the Great Unconformity are laid in at an angle. The angled layers all get cut off flat at the Great Unconformity. There is no reasonable explanation for this other than that the lower layers got tilted, and then erosion wore things down to the Great Unconformity before sedimentation built new layers back up. This must have taken millions of years.

Regarding the angle, yes, the illustration has the angle steeper than the layers are in reality. That is because the vertical scale of the illustration is exaggerated in comparison to the horizontal scale. That's an artist technique to help us see all the vertical layers.

Regarding the two blocks, I don't know if that can be seen with the naked eye. There are many ways to detect the rocks down there, including wells or instrument readings from the surface.

 

[AV1611VET]

Again, the layers above the Great Uncomformity (blue line) are horizontal. The layers below the Great Unconformity are laid in at an angle. The angled layers all get cut off flat at the Great Unconformity. There is no reasonable explanation for this other than that the lower layers got tilted, and then erosion wore things down to the Great Unconformity before sedimentation built new layers back up. This must have taken millions of years.

Regarding the angle, yes, the illustration has the angle steeper than the layers are in reality. That is because the vertical scale of the illustration is exaggerated in comparison to the horizontal scale. That's an artist technique to help us see all the vertical layers.

Regarding the two blocks, I don't know if that can be seen with the naked eye. There are many ways to detect the rocks down there, including wells or instrument readings from the surface.

Thank you for an honest answer.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Pictures are nice.

They are worth a thousand words.

It's the interpretations I have issues with.

What you seem to have issues with is reality contradicting what you want to believe is true. That's too bad, really.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Thank you for an honest answer.

You are welcome.

After all, since the honest truth is devastating to your view of creation in 4004 BC, I stick with the honest truth.

 

[Estrid]

What you seem to have issues with is reality contradicting what you want to believe is true. That's too bad, really.

"seem"

You are welcome.

After all, since the honest truth is devastating to your view of creation in 4004 BC, I stick with the honest truth.

Rejecting what one knows nothing about,
thinking a quick glance is adequate study,
putting conclusion despite / regardless of evidence
is the opposite of any kind of honesty
intellectual or otherwise.
May those who promote such behaviour
as reasonable- still less holy and
righteous- find themselves before a
kangaroo court so constituted.

Guilty as charged, we don't need
no stinkin' evidence.

With luck, it will just be a traffic ticket,
not a capital offense like say disrespecting
the koran.