The Gog n Magog war will happen before the Tribulation

[R. Hartono]

Waiting for God's time schedule to be fulfilled.

 

[Erik Nelson]

.I would hope youwould understand that God has not done away with Israel.God will actually save many Israelis during the tribulation and those Israelis will inherit the land where they are today .

Ezekiel 9:4 and said to him, "Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it."

Ezekiel 9:5 As I listened, he said to the others, "Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion.

Ezekiel 9:6 Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, the mothers and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary." So they began with the old men who were in front of the temple.

According to Rev 20:7-9, God has not done away with "spiritual" Israel, some remnant of which remains true within the "camp of the Saints, the city He loves"

 

[Erik Nelson]

Your idea is not really a Christian perspective - rather your own perspective - all the people that die and ravenous birds eat their flesh is not symbolic nor spiritual - literally happens as much of the entire book , to deny the role of ancient Israel causes a fundamental loss of understanding what the Word of God proclaims leading to many misunderstandings of what the HOLY Bible tells us

you may be correct, it's not up to me. I understand your literal interpretation of Ezekiel 36-39 to be essentially identical to that of Orthodox Judaism, which I understand perceives the physical nation-state of physical modern Israel to be the Prophesied fulfillment of those Scriptures

 

[shilohsfoal]

Erdogan's Vision: Uniting an 'Army of Islam' to Destroy Israel in 10 Days
The Gog n Magog war of Ezekiel 38 will happen just be4 antichrist appearance in Israel as the "Messiah" which will begin the 70th week of Daniel,which is the final week/7 years Grief Tribulation as it will take 7 years for Israel to burn Gog's weapons after their defeat.
Eze 39:9... and they shall burn them with fire seven years.

We are currently watching how Israel is pushed by nations to accept the Two States Solutions and share Jerusalem with P.A.
Nobody can make the deal as it will be the antichrist's role.

The antichrist will use the opportunity to make the 7 Years Peace Covenant between Israel and Arab enemies, then allowing the Temple rebuilt/worship and sacrifice, this end with the Abomination of Desolation at 3.5 years of tribulation.

The Temple will be allowed to be rebuilt after this war of Gog and Magog where the Arab nations as threats to Israel's existence will learn a massive defeat and then let the Temple be rebuilt besides the mosque as the symbol of 'peace'.
Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles:

The court is where the mosque now stands.

and Jerusalem will probably be made an Int'l city of 'Peace' by UN to avoid disputes over it
(Rev 11:2...and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months)

A new leader may rise from turmoil in the US, Russia and China (or from wars between them) as part of the 10 horns to give authority to Antichrist via the U.N. so he will have no rivals and allow him to become a one-world 'Peace Leader' (dictator)
Rev 17:12 "The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet begun to rule, but who will be given authority to rule as kings for one hour with the beast"

The Jews' Messiah might actually be a different person than antichrist, he can play the role of the False Prophet spoken of in Revelation,and he will be the executioner (2nd beast of Rev. 13) for those who resist to worship the beast and rcv its mark.

Antichrist will recover from a deadly wound which could be an assasination attempt against his effort to make Jerusalem an int'l city.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Antichrist cannot make the 7 years peace covenant before the 1st seal is opened where he will be empowered to make peace.
Dan 8:25....and by peace shall destroy many..(conquering the world by peace)
Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Because antichrist is restrained now until the Holy Spirit is removed with the church
2 Thes 2:7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the One who now holds it back will continue to do so till He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and abolish by the majesty of His arrival.

There are 2 Gog n Magog wars :
Ezekiel 38 : They try to kill all Jews and plunder the land, God will destroy but spare 1/6th to testify of God's Mighty Hand to their nations.
Rev 20 : They will rebel against Jesus's Millennial Government, Nobody will be spared.

The Holy Spirit sent 2000 years ago on the Pentecost day shall be removed first (with the church thru which He works) so this world will somehow return to the Old Testament Era where God used His fierce Hands many many times to wipe off evil people and evil nations, such as by the Flood of Noah. The world will see His mighty Hands returns with Fierce global punishment by 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Vials, billions sinners will perish.

Are you 100 percent positive it is the Antichrist role to devide Jerusalem and cause the two state solution?
It appears the king of the north(Trump)will be deviding the land .

Trump peace deal to make Jerusalem suburb Palestinian capital | The Jerusalem post

 

[NeedyFollower]

Your idea is not really a Christian perspective - rather your own perspective - all the people that die and ravenous birds eat their flesh is not symbolic nor spiritual - literally happens as much of the entire book , to deny the role of ancient Israel causes a fundamental loss of understanding what the Word of God proclaims leading to many misunderstandings of what the HOLY Bible tells us

Brother ..the Jews took everything literally and did not recognize their messiah . And in the story of the prodigal son , the Father told the obedient son ..Son , while you are with me is not everything I won yours ? So the Jews only get the old covenant promised land and not a new heaven and a new earth wherein dwells righteousness ? Does the part not dwell in the whole ? Secular Israel in league with a secular US ? Who will teach the Israelite's to love their enemies ? The US military ? Who shall teach us to love our enemies . Was Paul not a christian ? How about Peter ? They looked for a new Jerusalem . I think the brother may absolutely have a christian view ..the new view we have is just that ..new .

 

[seventysevens]

Brother ..the Jews took everything literally and did not recognize their messiah . And in the story of the prodigal son , the Father told the obedient son ..Son , while you are with me is not everything I won yours ? So the Jews only get the old covenant promised land and not a new heaven and a new earth wherein dwells righteousness ? Does the part not dwell in the whole ? Secular Israel in league with a secular US ? Who will teach the Israelite's to love their enemies ? The US military ? Who shall teach us to love our enemies . Was Paul not a christian ? How about Peter ? They looked for a new Jerusalem . I think the brother may absolutely have a christian view ..the new view we have is just that ..new .

There are people who may have accepted Christ as savoir - but that does not mean that every view they have is a "Christian _ Christ like" view - Just as Jesus says that not everyone that says they are a follower of Christ will be living with Christ eternally -
Jew or Gentile IF they really are a true follower of Jesus they will inherit eternal life with Christ - secular society does not love Christ - therefore they don't have a part with Christ
Then there is the topic that not many talk about and that is the 5 crowns - each is achieved on a particular way - there is also the matter than some people just barley get into the kingdom even as one escaping through the flames - as all their works are burned up - You can have your new view when it does not match up with the Holy Scriptures that are not new -

God Bless

 

[shilohsfoal]

Brother ..the Jews took everything literally and did not recognize their messiah . And in the story of the prodigal son , the Father told the obedient son ..Son , while you are with me is not everything I won yours ? So the Jews only get the old covenant promised land and not a new heaven and a new earth wherein dwells righteousness ? Does the part not dwell in the whole ? Secular Israel in league with a secular US ? Who will teach the Israelite's to love their enemies ? The US military ? Who shall teach us to love our enemies . Was Paul not a christian ? How about Peter ? They looked for a new Jerusalem . I think the brother may absolutely have a christian view ..the new view we have is just that ..new .

Peter and Paul were Iisraelites also.

 

[R. Hartono]

Are you 100 percent positive it is the Antichrist role to devide Jerusalem and cause the two state solution?
It appears the king of the north(Trump)will be deviding the land .

Trump peace deal to make Jerusalem suburb Palestinian capital | The Jerusalem post

The USA will play a big role in creating the NWO out of total destruction of the world thats why the 2nd beast must rule in US.

But who is the 1st Beast of Revelation 13 ?
Gabriel has revealed that antichrist shall come from the Roman.
Dan 9:26 and the people of the prince that shall come (in the end times) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (the Roman destroyed the city and Temple in 70AD) 27 And he (that Roman Prince) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (7 years of Tribulation)
Do you see who has the capability to make peace deal in ME ?
Trump's peace plan actually came from the Deep State but its the antichrist who will execute the Peace Plan.

 

[NeedyFollower]

There are people who may have accepted Christ as savoir - but that does not mean that every view they have is a "Christian _ Christ like" view - Just as Jesus says that not everyone that says they are a follower of Christ will be living with Christ eternally -
Jew or Gentile IF they really are a true follower of Jesus they will inherit eternal life with Christ - secular society does not love Christ - therefore they don't have a part with Christ
Then there is the topic that not many talk about and that is the 5 crowns - each is achieved on a particular way - there is also the matter than some people just barley get into the kingdom even as one escaping through the flames - as all their works are burned up - You can have your new view when it does not match up with the Holy Scriptures that are not new -

God Bless

I am sorry that I was not clear. The new view about which I was referring was that it is somehow biblical to support a secular Israel with military aid . As a disciple of Christ , I do not get a view . ( How can two walk together unless they be agreed . ) I get to be adopted by His view . And the Holy Scriptures tell us to love our enemies ..that is His view and I agree . What manner of men ought we to be ? 2nd Peter 3:11 ...Why are we encouraging men to wage war to protect their "old covenant" promised land which is going to be melted with fervent heat ? This is in no way a new view ...see Isaiah chapter 13 and 24 .

 

[seventysevens]

...Why are we encouraging men to wage war to protect their "old covenant" promised land which is going to be melted with fervent heat ? This is in no way a new view ...see Isaiah chapter 13 and 24 .

But you have not looked into it deeply enough , there will be a new earth but not until certain events have taken place first .
Looks as you have not made yourself aware of things you need to make yourself aware -
and I emphasize" you need to make yourself aware"
What I mean is I can offer something that you can take and do a deeper study to make yourself aware because it is a matter that you need to study and I am not interested in spending a lot of time debating.

There are people that have accepted Jesus and become Christians , there are people who reject Jesus for various reasons but as Far as Jesus is concerned it does not matter the various reasons for if they reject Him they are lost forever.
Then there are people who honor and love Almighty God ,calling Him YHWH , Jehovah that God Almighty made promises to , God will keep His promises regardless of what you or anyone else believes about HIS promises .

God prophesied that HE would bring back the descendants of Abram, Issac, and Jacob because HE still has His promise to them -them who currently Love HIM but reject Jesus just as they did 2000 years ago
People who insist that Christians are all of Israel before the times of gentiles are fulfilled will never understand until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled
There is a difference in how God sees Israel and how you interpret scripture - the biggest failure is that people who insist that Christians are Israel refuse to include all of scripture resulting in a severe misunderstanding

People who reject Jesus don't love God
Israel in the current time love God YHWH but not Jesus so God sees that He will fulfill HIS promises and hopes that Israel will repent and accept Jesus.

Some will but most won't simply because of how they have followed the ways of the Pharisees .
God fulfills HIS promises even knowing that many will not repent - He Keeps His Promises because He Keeps His promises - just like he said he will cause rain to fall on the just and the unjust - it is part of HIS character that He does what he said He will do regardless if people believe that he should not bother doing so for people that reject Jesus

 

[friend of]

warfare

• "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a White Horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
• His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

They compare favorably. In fact, almost identically right down to His coming for warfare, and the crown symbolizing He rules. The question is, why would anyone (based upon what is written in Revelation 6:2) think that this rider on the white horse is someone different from the rider on the white horse in Revelation nineteen? There certainly is nothing (at all) in Revelation 6:2 that would lead us to believe He is a different rider. So where would we get the idea? ..I submit that it comes from man's own reasoning and teachings, rather than what is actually written there

If the white rider in the first horse is Jesus then who I would it say that he was given a bow and Crown to conquer? I believe you said it yourself that he's already conquered everything. Also why would Jesus need be given anything from Mortal man? It sounds like permissibility here. Who gives the white rider permission to do such things? It sounds as though his power has been bestowed upon him by a body of influence like the United Nations.

 

[friend of]

why do some people insist that Satan rides a white horse?" ..good question which forever remains unanswered in a logical fashion

Deception. He appears to be white (righteous) but in fact is not good.

 

[TribulationSigns]

If the white rider in the first horse is Jesus then who I would it say that he was given a bow and Crown to conquer? I believe you said it yourself that he's already conquered everything. Also why would Jesus need be given anything from Mortal man? It sounds like permissibility here. Who gives the white rider permission to do such things? It sounds as though his power has been bestowed upon him by a body of influence like the United Nations.

No. Let read the Scripture:

Revelation 6:2
[2] And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

The person who sat upon a white horse "IS" Jesus Christ. Period. The color white is of purity and righteousness. Thus this horse symbolizes God's righteousness as He goes forth with Strength CONQUERING and to CONQUER. Overcoming, and to overcome.

After the resurrection, Christ was given a crown BY GOD when he was given a kingdom!

Revelation 12:5
[5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 5:7-10
[7] And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
[8] And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
[9] And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
[10] And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 12:10-11
[10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Jesus was crowned King. He was given a crown, He did "establish" this kingdom by THIS WORK. He conquered YOU, ME, and all people redeemed by His Blood! This is the symbolism of this warfare which Christ went forth conquering THROUGH the CHURCH where we were made His Kings and Priests of THIS kingdom to bring gospel to the world so people can be spoiled from Satan's kingdom. Didn't you read the Scripture:

Matthew 12:28-29
[28] But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
[29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

This is how God's Kingdom was established. Christ had to bind strong man, Satan's, house and spoil his goods. His goods are PEOPLE like you and me. As the church expands into the world, Christ went forth conquering all people He intent to be saved until he has conquered all, then all Israel shall be saved!

Romans 11:25-26
[25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
[26] And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Christ has conquered His kingdom once all of HIS PEOPLE, thus, people of Covenant Israel, has been sealed. ALL Elect from Old and New Testament! This is Covenant Israel, not to be confused with national Israel as most supposed.

But Satan had to be restrained or bound at the Cross so that Christ would build his church (kingdom) and bring salvation to the world. After the purpose of the building of His church with all of His people coming in, it is finished. At this time Christ will then loosen Satan out of the bottomless pit for the purpose to judge His unfaithful congregation, Babylon the Great! This is when the Red, Black and Pale Horses comes in. That would be the time of great tribulation period prior to Second Coming. But the white horse we read in Revelation 6 will be the SAME WHITE HORSE we read in Revelation 19 when He returned, this time with all HIs Saints whom has been redeemed from earth upon the white horses!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Deception. He appears to be white (righteous) but in fact is not good.

No. Satan does not qualify for white horse at all.

Christ judges and makes war in righteousness. This color white is not "incidental" in revelation, it is in harmony with the symbolism in revelation. This is no small matter to be cast aside as insignificant (as some do). Because interpretations come from comparing scripture with scripture, and that is "extremely" important. Why would God use white to symbolize the rider coming in righteousness in one book of Revelation, and then assign that color to Satan's horse? Satan is NOT coming in the strength of righteousness. It makes no sense! Some say because he is a false prophet or he will come "pretend" as white horse, but God doesn't need to assign the color white to a horse to show false prophecy. A White horse doesn't symbolize false prophecy, it symbolizes riding in truth, purity, cleanness, and righteousness. We have our two identifiers. The horseman symbolizing He comes in strength (Job 39:19; Isaiah 31:1; Psalm 33:17; Psalm 147:10) of warfare, and color of the horse being white to symbolize He comes in righteous warfare and judgment. Just as Revelation 19 also so clearly illustrates. And as all of Revelation postulates:

Revelation 16:7

• "And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments."

Christ comes in righteous judgments and the white horse in Revelation chapter six symbolizes righteousness, just as Revelation nineteen does. They are synonymous with each other, the very same symbolism. It is inconsistent for us to say that the white Horse in Revelation chapter six symbolizes Satan, and then claim the white horse in Revelation chapter nineteen does not. That it switches and now symbolizes Christ. Where is the logic for such an abrupt change? They are both white horses! If there is one thing I have learned in my study of the scriptures, it is that "inconsistency is the hallmark of error," and is almost always the vehicle of every wrong interpretation.

For example, you can't have the Candlesticks in Revelation 2 symbolize the Church, and then turn around in Revelation chapter 11 and claim it now represents two physical men who will come and witness. This is not the way to rightly divide the word of truth. Same with a white horse! Consistency is paramount, and God declares that it is in "Righteousness" that this rider on the white horse goes forth to judge and make war. Again, total agreement and harmony with the horse (symbolizing strength of battle) being white.

 

[NeedyFollower]

But you have not looked into it deeply enough , there will be a new earth but not until certain events have taken place first .
Looks as you have not made yourself aware of things you need to make yourself aware -
and I emphasize" you need to make yourself aware"
What I mean is I can offer something that you can take and do a deeper study to make yourself aware because it is a matter that you need to study and I am not interested in spending a lot of time debating.

There are people that have accepted Jesus and become Christians , there are people who reject Jesus for various reasons but as Far as Jesus is concerned it does not matter the various reasons for if they reject Him they are lost forever.
Then there are people who honor and love Almighty God ,calling Him YHWH , Jehovah that God Almighty made promises to , God will keep His promises regardless of what you or anyone else believes about HIS promises .

God prophesied that HE would bring back the descendants of Abram, Issac, and Jacob because HE still has His promise to them -them who currently Love HIM but reject Jesus just as they did 2000 years ago
People who insist that Christians are all of Israel before the times of gentiles are fulfilled will never understand until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled
There is a difference in how God sees Israel and how you interpret scripture - the biggest failure is that people who insist that Christians are Israel refuse to include all of scripture resulting in a severe misunderstanding

People who reject Jesus don't love God
Israel in the current time love God YHWH but not Jesus so God sees that He will fulfill HIS promises and hopes that Israel will repent and accept Jesus.

Some will but most won't simply because of how they have followed the ways of the Pharisees .
God fulfills HIS promises even knowing that many will not repent - He Keeps His Promises because He Keeps His promises - just like he said he will cause rain to fall on the just and the unjust - it is part of HIS character that He does what he said He will do regardless if people believe that he should not bother doing so for people that reject Jesus

Well Yes I agree with you regarding Israel and God's promises . The meek shall inherit the earth but the proud and haughty will be destroyed ...and God is not a respecter of persons ..so proud Christians , proud Israeli's... proud anything are in danger for God gives grace to the humble . Although there be too many to articulate , one of God's most beautiful attributes is His humility and what a paradox for He who created all things . He is and that is enough and much more than I deserve . There is , I believe, a misunderstanding that worship is for God . I do not believe that . Worship is for US although it is about God and is a natural product of knowing Him which for me is through His Son Jesus Christ . My point is , Paul had a burden for his kinsmen after the flesh ...I personally know secular Jews ...biological Jews who are atheist ...but many more secular christians ..secular hindus ..that believe there is a God but live a life of denial ..this seems a paradox but it is not... particularly here in the united states where worship mostly is by rote and only at appointed times and days at appointed places ..this was also a problem in the days of Amos . History repeats itself .
I do not know when the fullness of the gentiles is complete but I do believe that for the most part there appears to be a great falling away ...apostacy ..rebellion from among believers . Jesus said to go make disciples teaching them to observe all that He commanded them ...loving ones enemies is not at the forefront of the current american gospel ..nationalism is . God and country . The holy and the profane in a marriage . The writing on the wall ? Truth .

 

[seventysevens]

There is , I believe, a misunderstanding that worship is for God . I do not believe that . Worship is for US although
....particularly here in the united states where worship mostly is by rote and only at appointed times and days at appointed places

Worship is to God , for it is Him that provides for us - it is Him that we have our next breath , We can worship Him at any time we desire . morning , noon and night , it is us that worship Him, - for formal worship services in a Church building a person can find a church to do that when ever they hold service - if you look it up you will find various scriptures for worship - here is an example
what is worship according to the bible - Google Search

I do believe that for the most part there appears to be a great falling away ...apostacy ..rebellion from among believers . Jesus said to go make disciples teaching them to observe all that He commanded them ...loving ones enemies is not at the forefront of the current american gospel .

I can agree there is an apostasy happening as there many who are in rebellion and have taken a stand away from the bible doctrine; as with the other scripture says that people will turn away from a solid sound doctrine a turn to preachers that tell them what they want to hear and sprinkle it with scripture , Many believers are warring with each other demanding a new interpretation they have is right and everyone else is wrong , people go door to door saying "have you heard the new prophet ?" Churches refuse to teach any prophecy and focus so much time on topics about money , self help , self image , allowing behavior that should not be tolerated in church to grow unchecked , all the sins that the 7 churches in revelation had are not only existing in the church toady it is growing fast - then there are the cults and thuse such as chrislam joining Christianity with islam

 

[Hiscosmicgoldfish3]

That is the Preterist view. Full Preterists are encouraged to not post in this sub-forum

the preterist ban is to do with the idea that Jesus isn't going to return.. not about Gog of Magog.. Magog was imo. the Ottoman Empire and the Germans of the Great War.

The fulfilling of Ezekiel 38 and 39 in history! Not a future work but that of the past. Gog of Magog the birth of Israel. - Know Bible Facts From Fiction, Science and Prophecy for today!