The Gap and The Sumer Creation Myth

[DavidPT]

It does not say.. "he eateth grass with the ox."

Yet? In the future we are told the wolf will eat straw WITH the lamb.

All I did was quote Scripture. I never indicated one way or the other that the text said or did not say he eateth grass with the ox. But now that you have brought it up, I fully agree with you here. The text doesn't say he eateth grass with the ox. Yet, that doesn't conclusively prove that oxen and behemoths didn't live during the same period of time for awhile, meaning until the latter became extinct.


As to your point about Isaiah 11 and Isaiah 65, currently lambs and wolves are still dwelling among us, though. That is different than what you are proposing about oxen and behemoths, that they never lived together during the same period of time whatsoever, at least not in this age. For all I know, you still might think they lived together during the alleged gap, though.

 

[DavidPT]

Angels, too, were created in His image.

This I can agree with since it seems ludicrous that everyone would be in God's image and likeness except for the ones that personally serve Him on an ongoing basis, meaning angels.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


How can the 'us' meant here not also include angels? Or would only the trinity know good and evil but angels wouldn't? Since it logically has to include angels, why can't the 'us' in Genesis 1:26 include angels? Or should we assume no angels were even present during any of that?

Prehistoric man was not.

This I can't agree with since there is nowhere in the Bible that I'm aware of where it indicates some of mankind was not created in His image. Unless you can produce Scripture that tells us that, it's a pretty safe bet for me to reject this opinion in the meantime.

 

[GenemZ]

All I did was quote Scripture. I never indicated one way or the other that the text said or did not say he eateth grass with the ox. But now that you have brought it up, I fully agree with you here. The text doesn't say he eateth grass with the ox. Yet, that doesn't conclusively prove that oxen and behemoths didn't live during the same period of time for awhile, meaning until the latter became extinct.

Amazing how ALL prehistoric animals became extinct. It could not have all happened in Noah's flood because we have creatures from much older periods going extinct first...

There was a amazing purpose in God arranging all the prehistoric eras. For the angels were attending God's school in developing their functions. The more they learned the more advanced each period became in complexity. That is why evolutionists who observe this advancement in complexity find it easy to presume it was "evolution." Yet, the 'missing links' are never found. No more found than the missing links between the last prehistoric created world and the one we now find ourselves.

Notice there was no sun for the first three days of this creation. God wants us to wonder why that was so, so He can provide (in his timing) some insight to how the previous worlds with no sun had its lights of day and night. The hint... only certain angels were light bearers.

Now is a time to move to new frontiers as the traditions of the past many wish to remain in will be crushed unless real answers are found. Real solutions are needed as evil devises new lies designed to make Christians look superstitious and naive... Giving justification to being attacked and persecuted.

We need to stop clinging sentimentally to certain commonly held conventional ideas that worked in the past before the society began its advance into deep moral decay..

grace and peace ......

 

[GenemZ]

This I can't agree with since there is nowhere in the Bible that I'm aware of where it indicates some of mankind was not created in His image. Unless you can produce Scripture that tells us that, it's a pretty safe bet for me to reject this opinion in the meantime.

Jeremiah's use of the utter destruction of Genesis 1:2 (same Hebrew words) to rebellious Jews mentions a prehistoric man. If all men are created in God's image there would have been no need to clarify in Genesis 1:26. For the angels knew of a "humanoid" of a previous creation that was not created in God's image. If that humanoid was so created? Jesus could never have paid for their sins. Thus leaving a life capable of inheriting eternal life without an provision from God to save them.

“My people are fools;
they do not know me.
They are senseless children;
they have no understanding.
They are skilled in doing evil;
they know not how to do good.”
I looked at the earth,
and it was formless and empty; (Gen 1:2)
and at the heavens,
and their light was gone.
I looked at the mountains,
and they were quaking;
all the hills were swaying.
I looked, and there were no people; (generic term for a human)
every bird in the sky had flown away.
I looked, and the fruitful land was a desert;
all its towns lay in ruins
before the Lord, before his fierce anger." Jer 4:22-26​

Notice? The "light was gone." Everything was destroyed.. no more life. That is why Jeremiah needed to modify what we find in Genesis 1:2 by adding -

This is what the Lord says:
“The whole land will be ruined,
though I will not destroy it completely. Jer 4:27​

That was to let all those hearing the prophesy that Israel will not end up like the earth as found (utterly destroyed) in Genesis 1:2. That was what Jeremiah quoted from! That in their case some will survive.

grace and peace .........

 

[GenemZ]

This is probably one subject involving this discussion that I'm likely to find a lot a agreement with you about. I agree, there is only one race, the human race.

There are only one species of dog as well? A Rottweiler and a Terrier are of the same species? They are both "dogs."

 

[GenemZ]

Job would have lived post the flood. There were no tvs back then with channels like National Geographic, no internet to research things on, etc. Why then would God be discussing an animal with Job, as if Job was already familiar with them, but that Job wasn't even aware of because these didn't exist during his days? That sounds contradictory. If meaning a dinosaur type creature, it doesn't look like they got entirely wiped out in the flood after all if Job was familiar with them at the time.

Do you realize you just placed two of every kind of dinosaur on the Ark if they were still alive in Noah's day? How big was the Ark? Noah did not build a fleet.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Gen 1:26 - Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Angels, too, were created in His image.

Do you have biblical support for this statement?

Prehistoric man was not.

Do you have biblical support for this statement?

The announcement in Genesis 1:26 was to let the angels know that this "man" is not to be like the last "man."

Where are you getting your "material"?

 

[FreeGrace2]

There are only one species of dog as well? A Rottweiler and a Terrier are of the same species? They are both "dogs."

Yes, "dog" is a race, Rottweiler and Terrier are ethnic groups within the dog race.

 

[GenemZ]

Where are you getting your "material"?

My conclusion was not from one source. I have been a Christian many years, and have learned from various men of God. Men who studied.

 

[GenemZ]

Yes, "dog" is a race, Rottweiler and Terrier are ethnic groups within the dog race.

So police reports should list "Ethnicity" ... not, "Race.?"

A race is a grouping of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into categories generally viewed as distinct by society.[1] The term was first used to refer to speakers of a common language and then to denote national affiliations. By the 17th century the term began to refer to physical (phenotypical) traits. Modern science regards race as a social construct, an identity which is assigned based on rules made by society.[2] While partially based on physical similarities within groups, race does not have an inherent physical or biological meaning.[1][3][4]
Race (human categorization) - Wikipedia

Can we agree to how much time we want to waste on this one?

Can an Ethiopian change his skin or a leopard its spots?
Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil." Jer 12:23

 

[GenemZ]

Gen 1:26 - Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Do you have biblical support for this statement?

Why do you think angels were called "sons of God" in the OT?

For they were also created in God's image.

What is man that You are mindful of him,
And the son of man that You visit him?
For You have made him a little lower than the angels,
And You have crowned him with glory and honor." Ps 8:4-5​

Yes.... angels are sons of God. In the resurrection we in the church (the Bride of Christ) shall become higher than angels because of our position in Christ.

 

[FreeGrace2]

My conclusion was not from one source. I have been a Christian many years, and have learned from various men of God. Men who studied.

My source is the Bible itself. Which I've studied too.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So police reports should list "Ethnicity" ... not, "Race.?"

That would be accurate.

A race is a grouping of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into categories generally viewed as distinct by society.[1] The term was first used to refer to speakers of a common language and then to denote national affiliations. By the 17th century the term began to refer to physical (phenotypical) traits. Modern science regards race as a social construct, an identity which is assigned based on rules made by society.[2] While partially based on physical similarities within groups, race does not have an inherent physical or biological meaning.[1][3][4]
Race (human categorization) - Wikipedia

Can we agree to how much time we want to waste on this one?

I'll point out that there is only 1 human race as long as I need to.

Can an Ethiopian change his skin or a leopard its spots?
Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil."

Jer 12:23

What does this have to do with ethnicities?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Why do you think angels were called "sons of God" in the OT?

Yep. Gen 6.

For they were also created in God's image.

What is man that You are mindful of him,
And the son of man that You visit him?
For You have made him a little lower than the angels,
And You have crowned him with glory and honor." Ps 8:4-5​

Yes.... angels are sons of God.

As I noted. But no where in the Bible are angels described as being created in the image of God.

So, what source says so?

In the resurrection we in the church (the Bride of Christ) shall become higher than angels because of our position in Christ.

That is true. And doen't change a thing about angels and humans being 2 separate races.

 

[GenemZ]

My source is the Bible itself. Which I've studied too.

This is only one teacher I learn from...

We can study the Bible all we want. But, its those rare teachers who God has called and dedicated that open up doors to understanding that shows God did in fact write the Bible.

Here is one source of mine. When I first began learning from him after graduating a Bible college with honors.. I sat there astounded. For I had just learned more from one lesson that I had learned in three years of full time load. Yet , those three years prepared me for what was to come.

If curious? No money will be asked for.

R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

 

[GenemZ]

Yep. Gen 6.


As I noted. But no where in the Bible are angels described as being created in the image of God.

So, what source says so?

Like "Father" like son = sons of God.

I am not going to drag this on. Will you?

 

[GenemZ]

Yep. Gen 6.

Ever notice? Genesis 6. Its apparent that God originally created angels with the ability to procreate. They produced the Nephilim with human women.

What happened that they never received a female counterpart?

The same thing that would have happened to Adam if he balked and rebelled against God after having observed and named animals day after day.... after day.

If Adam balked? If he rebelled? And... Never repented? He would have ended up like the mess Lucifer and his angels caused with God's kingdom, when they felt tending to the prehistoric creation was "beneath them."

ADAM remained faithful and finished what the Lord wanted him to do. It was after Adam was done naming the animals that the Lord put Adam into that "deep sleep" and produced his blessing and reward.

Now... Only God's angels are recipients of God's grace power. Power enabling them to remain peacefully celibate. For.. Jesus stated specifically that the angels "IN HEAVEN" are not given in marriage. Jesus was being quite specific.

But? What about the fallen angels?

Out of frustration and incontrollable lust? Over time the first drag queens appeared amongst their number. It did not begin with men...

Something to consider.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
My source is the Bible itself. Which I've studied too.

This is only one teacher I learn from...

That's not what you said. But sure, we learn nothing apart from the Holy Spirit.

However, since Paul commands believers to NOT grieve (Eph 4:30) or quench (1 Thess 5:19) the Holy Spirit, but to be FILLED with the Spirit (Eph 5:18), do you know how to follow his commands? Because grieving/quenching the Spirit will guarantee that there will be no spiritual growth or learning.

We can study the Bible all we want.

Some of us do.

But, its those rare teachers who God has called and dedicated that open up doors to understanding that shows God did in fact write the Bible.

Maybe I misunderstood your opening comment about "only one teacher" you learn from.

Here is one source of mine. When I first began learning from him after graduating a Bible college with honors.. I sat there astounded. For I had just learned more from one lesson that I had learned in three years of full time load.

Some Bible college, huh.

Yet , those three years prepared me for what was to come.

If curious? No money will be asked for.

R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

Well, that's refreshing. I followed his ministry for many years. In fact, I credit him for my deep desire to actually know the truth.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
As I noted. But no where in the Bible are angels described as being created in the image of God.

So, what source says so?

Like "Father" like son = sons of God.

I am not going to drag this on. Will you?

The Bible doesn't detail how God created angels. Not one detail. So we can't speculate on it.

'nuff said.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Ever notice? Genesis 6. Its apparent that God originally created angels with the ability to procreate. They produced the Nephilim with human women.

Correct.

What happened that they never received a female counterpart?

Again, the Bible doesn't detail.

The same thing that would have happened to Adam if he balked and rebelled against God after having observed and named animals day after day.... after day.

Well, that seems a bit of speculation. We just don't have any information regarding how God created angels, and how they function. They are a separate race from us.

If Adam balked? If he rebelled? And... Never repented? He would have ended up like the mess Lucifer and his angels caused with God's kingdom, when they felt tending to the prehistoric creation was "beneath them."

I don't deal with the "what if's...". I prefer to deal with the "what is....".

ADAM remained faithful and finished what the Lord wanted him to do. It was after Adam was done naming the animals that the Lord put Adam into that "deep sleep" and produced his blessing and reward.

Agree.

Now... Only God's angels are recipients of God's grace power.

I disagree. Humans get that too. The indwelling Holy Spirit, for one. That's certainly "grace power".

Power enabling them to remain peacefully celibate. For.. Jesus stated specifically that the angels "IN HEAVEN" are not given in marriage. Jesus was being quite specific.

I find that interesting. Did Jesus mean they refrain, or that they aren't able? I don't think it's clear from the text. All we know is that they don't marry in heaven. What we don't know is why.

But? What about the fallen angels?

Another interesting question. It's clear the angels who did co-mingle with human females were imprisoned in tartarus until the final judgment of Satan and all fallen angels. Do the rest of fallen angels have the ability to co-mingle? I don't know.

Out of frustration and incontrollable lust? Over time the first drag queens appeared amongst their number. It did not begin with men...

Something to consider.

Drag queens? RBT never spoke about that, as far as I can remember.