The Friend Zone

[exitstageright]

The following is a post from someone who works with singles:

I have a question for the gentlemen out there – how do you know you are in the friend zone, how did you get there and how do you get out?
In my experience this is a very cut and dry subject and the truth may sting a bit. Simply, within 2-3 dates if you are not physically flirting, touching hands, hugging and moving towards kissing, you are in the friend zone. You got there because you didn’t make a move and because you were probably too scared of being rejected by her.
There is no need to drag this dance out. You don’t need to take your time with finding out if she is interested in dating you. You have to ask her out on a proper date and be clear so she knows you want to date her and not just hang out and be friends with her. You will rarely cross over the friend barrier if you don’t do this. There are two reoccurring scenarios that complicate this topic – if you work together or if she is dating someone else. If you work together, it’s possible for the lines of communication to be crossed and there are company policies to consider but the same rules apply. After work, you ask her out on a date and you reap the reward or the repercussions. If she is dating someone else you shouldn’t be pursuing her until she is single, period.
If you are one of those men that constantly ends up in the friend zone, then this is an area you can work on and see change quickly. You simply have to take a leap of faith and be confident that if/when you are rejected, you will dust yourself off and try again. You may get a lot of no’s before a yes but at least you will be using your time looking for a girl who is interested in getting to know you better rather than a girl that only wants to be your friend. Rip the band aid off. ( OUCH!!!) Confidence is key. You will save yourself a lot of awkward moments in the future if you are honest and let her know that you are interested instead of getting emotionally involved before you know if she is interested in dating you.
Good luck friends!

So,Ladies do you agree with her?
I usually wait until about the fourth date to hold hands or to kiss. Is this is what I have been doing wrong all of these years?

One reason,when I was in my twenties, and sometimes now, that I was always hesitant to touch someone on the second date,was not only the fear of rejection,but I did not want her to feel as if I was coming on too strong. So,I decided to be a "gentleman",and not force myself upon her. ( I may want to run for public office someday. I do not want some woman telling the media that I made unwanted sexual advances toward her. ) Meanwhile,the girl and/or young lady probably thought that I was just a "cold fish" with no emotion,no personality,and no feelings.

 

[dayhiker]

exit, I've not had enough dating experience to have a pattern on that. One girl I went hiking with for a few months we then moved into a BF/GF situation. Tho I didn't fall in love with her. But since we were spending every other weekend hiking in the Whites, that added a a nice dimension to the relationship. My last GF I played golf with for a few weeks before I called her up and ask her out to dinner and dancing. We both had pheromones working for us I think and then that relationship started moving toward romance.

I'd say if one feels sexually attracted, then one has to make a move to express that attraction, be it a guy or a gal.

 

[blackribbon]

At this point in my life, if a guy didn't "act" interested in being outside of the 'friend zone' within a couple dates, I'd assume that he wasn't interested and step back myself so that I didn't become emotionally attached. I think two official dates is enough time to know if there is potential for something more than friendship. Acting interested to me means touching me in some safe way (odd for me, I know but my experiences in life show that touch means 'interest' ) and lots of eye contact...plus just a general connection that shows up in the conversation.

 

[exitstageright]

At this point in my life, if a guy didn't "act" interested in being outside of the 'friend zone' within a couple dates, I'd assume that he wasn't interested and step back myself so that I didn't become emotionally attached. I think two official dates is enough time to know if there is potential for something more than friendship. Acting interested to me means touching me in some safe way (odd for me, I know but my experiences in life show that touch means 'interest' ) and lots of eye contact...plus just a general connection that shows up in the conversation.

Ah.....SO...THAT was what I was doing wrong 40 years ago. I wanted to be respectful,nice,and not act like an octopus on the second date,even though I wanted to. Maybe that is what girls,and later on women, meant when they said that I was "too nice."
When I was 16 years old,I touched a girl in her most sensitive spot first. I did not know that that was a no-no. I wished that my father had taught me about girls. I learned the hard way not to do that. That girl gave me a back-handed slap across my eyes. That was painful.Therefore,that made me very hesitant to touch a girl,and later on a woman,that I was interested in.

Now I know.The NEXT second date that I have.......look out,'cause here I come! I WILL show her that I am intrerested in her. If she rejects me....that will be O.K. If she accepts me,that will be more than O.K.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

Last night in bible study we were talking about how we met and one of the younger guys our younger couples said that he didn't try to kiss her until the 3rd date and she stopped him! So he thought she didn't really like him. She went to work and told a guy co-worker at work about the fact that he had tried to kiss her but she didn't let him and that guy told her "He thinks you don't like him!" You need to kiss him the next time you see him, because he now thinks you don't like him!" And that guy was right. They are now engaged to be married. The first date he didn't try to kiss her or touch her. Second date he kissed her hand. 3rd date tried to kiss her.

 

[sampa]

I hope there are no fast hard rules like that, I'm in trouble if anyone believes that. My father taught me honesty is the best thing. Physically I've not made it that far and have prevented it from happening, because my attractions have not matched my desire to be with a Godly guy. That may be changing.

I'm in a quandry now though wondering if because I refused to go out two times after a singles bible study that this guy I'm interested in took it as rejection. At the same time there were circumstances preventing me from being able to stay out late that night. At this time I feel more comfortable getting to know a guy in a group context so I can be sure they are mature in their faith, before my heart gets involved.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

I hope there are no fast hard rules like that, I'm in trouble if anyone believes that. My father taught me honesty is the best thing. Physically I've not made it that far and have prevented it from happening, because my attractions have not matched my desire to be with a Godly guy. That may be changing.

I'm in a quandry now though wondering if because I refused to go out two times after a singles bible study that this guy I'm interested in took it as rejection. At the same time there were circumstances preventing me from being able to stay out late that night. At this time I feel more comfortable getting to know a guy in a group context so I can be sure they are mature in their faith, before my heart gets involved.

Well you could ask him out for coffee sometime and see what he says? That way he will know you ARE interested.

 

[sampa]

yeah, if the opportunity comes up again. Its been almost 2 months, I'm sure another opportunity will come. I just heard he's going to a game with some of the others this tuesday, which is encouraging, because before he said he wasn't going because he couldn't connect with others. His friend has been the only one that has looked me up on facebook and sort of keeps loose ties with me.

I've talked one on one with another gal also concerning the situation and with my health circumstances I'm a bit limited in late nights without possibly ending up in the hospital. Others are not aware at this point in the group, since I need time to get to know them. Also I want to allow room to get to know one another, him be involved in the fellowship, but if I decide I'm not interested it won't affect the fellowship in the group. Does that make sense?

 

[Camalinda]

I may be an ultra-prude or at least, out of touch with reality in the dating scene, but... I do not want to be kissed on a third date. I would prefer, quite honestly, for the man to just say outright that he is interested in getting to know me beyond friends and, assuming I am interested as well, work on building a solid relationship that does not involve physical expressions of emotion at that point.

I feel that at my age, I can be mature enough and want a man to be mature enough to say what he means and mean what he says, and vice-versa- in any relationship I might have with the opposite sex. I SOOOO do NOT want to do the junior/senior high school thing all over again. Does he like me or doesn't he like me? Does he like me as a friend or more? Is he kissing me because he really likes me or just because he is sexually attracted to me? and so forth. Nope. I'm too old for that and while I think romance is sweet and fun and nice, and want it to be part of a relationship, I also want to be up-front about what I feel, what he feels and how the physical part of our relationship is going to go. I think it's too easy to get sucked into a relationship and find out that what you felt were your emotions reacting to your hormones brought on more fully by physical touch.

That's just my opinion and I realize people differ. I am praying for a relationship that does NOT involve all the guessing and wondering and such. I think it's perfectly reasonable to think that a man my age or older would be able to be forthright about wanting to pursue a relationship with me and seeing how it goes. There is so much to consider, as we all know, with 'older' relationships than there was when we were younger. Kids, finances coming in from ex-spouses, dealing with ex-spouses, being more set in our ways, expectations, etc. I think it's just better to be very up front about being in a relationship at this stage of my life, anyway.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

I totally agree that men/women our age "should" be able to express their intentions honestly etc...Do they? I have no idea. I have no desire or energy to do the whole "does he like me?" "why isn't he calling me?" etc. etc. either.

 

[exitstageright]

I totally agree that men/women our age "should" be able to express their intentions honestly etc...Do they? I have no idea. I have no desire or energy to do the whole "does he like me?" "why isn't he calling me?" etc. etc. either.

Now, I am confused. When a woman I met at a dance kept me guessing,women in this thread gave me the impression that is was OK for her to do that to me. Yet,at least two women on this thread said that men and women should be honest. Why is it ok for her to have me guessing about her intentions (why isn't she calling me?),but it is not ok for a man to keep you guessing about his intentions(why isn't HE calling me?)

Why is there always a double standard when it comes to men and women?

 

[Camalinda]

I say "ICK" to any form of "keep them guessing." By either sex. Like Michelle said, I'm too old and too tired to play any type of dating game.

I am to the place now where I have asked the Lord to specifically show me what man He has for me (if He has one). I don't want to be playing games or sitting around pining away.... "Ohhhh, why WON'T he call me???" I think I should have phrased my former post in such a way that says that I will not be involved with a man who cannot be forthright and honest about his intentions. Maybe I'm off-base, I don't know. I guess I think that at ages 40+, if a man can't be past all the game-playing (and if I were a man, I'd say if a woman couldn't be past it...) and the guessing and beating around the bush, well, then, it's not for me.

I am not a woman who would 'keep them guessing' and I wouldn't play games or beat around the bush. I would probably come across as TOO blunt if I really were not interested in a man but he kept persisting. I would not be cruel or mean, but I would be honest.

I guess I don't see the point of all the game-playing people do. Maybe there is a point ??? I just don't know what it is.

 

[exitstageright]

I say "ICK" to any form of "keep them guessing." By either sex. Like Michelle said, I'm too old and too tired to play any type of dating game.

I am to the place now where I have asked the Lord to specifically show me what man He has for me (if He has one). I don't want to be playing games or sitting around pining away.... "Ohhhh, why WON'T he call me???" I think I should have phrased my former post in such a way that says that I will not be involved with a man who cannot be forthright and honest about his intentions. Maybe I'm off-base, I don't know. I guess I think that at ages 40+, if a man can't be past all the game-playing (and if I were a man, I'd say if a woman couldn't be past it...) and the guessing and beating around the bush, well, then, it's not for me.

I am not a woman who would 'keep them guessing' and I wouldn't play games or beat around the bush. I would probably come across as TOO blunt if I really were not interested in a man but he kept persisting. I would not be cruel or mean, but I would be honest.

I guess I don't see the point of all the game-playing people do. Maybe there is a point ??? I just don't know what it is.

I just wish that I could meet more women like you. Yes,men do appreciate the fact that a woman who is blunt.Then,he can quickly move on to someone else without wasting his time. This woman told me that she changed her mind about me at the dance about five minutes after we exchanged numbers. When I called her just three days later,she gave me no clue that she was no longer interested in me. She finally told me five weeks later,after much prodding.
As I said before,most men will apreciate a blunt woman's rejection.The quicker the rejection is,the less painful. Just as I saw what was written on a tee-shirt, "Tell me no.... BEFORE I spend 10 bucks on drinks!"

 

[sampa]

I say "ICK" to any form of "keep them guessing." By either sex. Like Michelle said, I'm too old and too tired to play any type of dating game.

I am to the place now where I have asked the Lord to specifically show me what man He has for me (if He has one). I don't want to be playing games or sitting around pining away.... "Ohhhh, why WON'T he call me???" I think I should have phrased my former post in such a way that says that I will not be involved with a man who cannot be forthright and honest about his intentions. Maybe I'm off-base, I don't know. I guess I think that at ages 40+, if a man can't be past all the game-playing (and if I were a man, I'd say if a woman couldn't be past it...) and the guessing and beating around the bush, well, then, it's not for me.

I am not a woman who would 'keep them guessing' and I wouldn't play games or beat around the bush. I would probably come across as TOO blunt if I really were not interested in a man but he kept persisting. I would not be cruel or mean, but I would be honest.

I guess I don't see the point of all the game-playing people do. Maybe there is a point ??? I just don't know what it is.

well said . I never heard the word games till I started online dating 5 years ago, when all these guys said they didn't want a girl "who plays games" in their online profiles. I usually steer clear of and don't answer guys who have that already in their minds or thinking. Jesus heals all that and two people that are filled with the fruits of the spirit won't be following this trend. The Holy Spirit is definitely an awesome counselor.

I'm also learning on my end to be a better communicator, but not all things need to be said.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

I say "ICK" to any form of "keep them guessing." By either sex. Like Michelle said, I'm too old and too tired to play any type of dating game.

I am to the place now where I have asked the Lord to specifically show me what man He has for me (if He has one). I don't want to be playing games or sitting around pining away.... "Ohhhh, why WON'T he call me???" I think I should have phrased my former post in such a way that says that I will not be involved with a man who cannot be forthright and honest about his intentions. Maybe I'm off-base, I don't know. I guess I think that at ages 40+, if a man can't be past all the game-playing (and if I were a man, I'd say if a woman couldn't be past it...) and the guessing and beating around the bush, well, then, it's not for me.

I am not a woman who would 'keep them guessing' and I wouldn't play games or beat around the bush. I would probably come across as TOO blunt if I really were not interested in a man but he kept persisting. I would not be cruel or mean, but I would be honest.

I guess I don't see the point of all the game-playing people do. Maybe there is a point ??? I just don't know what it is.

BBM yeah I have that problem too. One thing you can say about me is that you never have to GUESS what I am thinking LOL. I do think before I speak, but I am brutally honest when asked. I don't try to hurt peoples feelings, but I would be more than happy to tell someone I am not interested if that were the case. And I usually can tell after the first date whether I would want to see that person again. I always look at the long term. If I don't think I could be interested long term, let's move on cuz times a wastin'. But as I get older, I don't have the problem of turning men down since I haven't even been asked out since my husband died so.....but if I WAS asked out, that's how it would go down.

 

[Javanwarbler]

Yeah, i'm pretty direct about who I like and will tell them! Unfortunately, I'm too blunt and it's cost me BIG TIME, in the past. I would TELL the person simply that I liked them (as more than a friend/romantic interest) and it was often met with them not feeling the same way. Once I communicated my feelings about them, their non-verbal response told all! (you can tell without them even saying a word sometimes, that they're just not into you like you are them!)

I hate all the games with dating, hence i don't do it much. I'm hoping to cultivate more christian male friendships that could turn into something more. I"m not into the casual dating scene mostly because i'm too old, and mentally done with going through bunch of guys to find "the one."Besides, i've never been good at all that. i'm thinking that at 40, God would just send the right one (if i"m following Him right) rather than me 'spinning my wheels' to go out and get it. (mind you, it's not that i'd stop putting myself in opportunistic situations, however. Just changing the stuff that messes with me mostly in the mind and feelings.)
So i've started to pray specifically for my partner and for God to let it happen when it's meant to but to have a peace of mind or real contentment in the meantime. I've even asked that the next person i'd get involved with would be my husband. I'm tired of the rat race


I've considered doing eharmony , but when i did the free profile a few years ago, I was told i was one of the 20% they couldn't match! I also just don't like the whole online scene much and that you have to pay to meet people that mostly won't work anyway! there's also a lot of that same "dating game situation" ESPECIALLY ONLINE, because people there often don't say who they really are as it's much easier/tempting to do that through cyberspace.

 

[dayhiker]

Sounds like you have found some things that don't work for you. I pray the prayer thing does work for you.

 

[blackribbon]

Long time away from this site...but EXIT, there is a huge distance between no touch and "the most sensitive places"....try hand holding and a simple kiss. And if there is a connection, I do want to be kissed before too long....not be swallowed, but yes, a simple kiss is nice. Considering that I kiss many different people in my life, I don't consider this too forward or "loose". It shows that you are interested. (Note: I usually am already friends with anyone that I'd go out with so I already know someone's basic character.)

As for "game playing"...this forum alone shows that "the rules" of dating are significantly different between different people. Most people play games of some sort...in all relationship in our lives. It can be a polite smile for someone you can't stand (good game playing) to pretending you are interested in someone just because you don't want to be alone (bad game playing). No one is straight up honest on the first few dates. It is only wrong if you are trying to portray an image that is definitely not in line with who you believe yourself to be.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

Yeah, I guess it's gonna be one of those days lol. Here's an honest approach


Straight Up - Paula Abdul (Lyrics) - YouTube

 

[Lone Wolfe]

I find that dating as a more mature adult is quite different than dating when I was a younger man? Perhaps that's because times have changed so much however, I still have those old fashion values and some friends of mine have told me those old fashion values don't work today?

I think if two people who have started dating don't show some kind of physical touching, holding hands or kissing by the 3rd date, they are just spinning their wheels and either need to move to the next level or call it quits. That's just my opinion on the matter.

A short story to make my point. As a younger man dating (before I was a Christian), I had dated a great deal and I moved rather quickly to make that home run and then one day I met this young lady who I was really attracted to and making that home run wasn't as important as it was with the others so I moved much slower. Now, we had been holding hands and kissing and the relationship was great and moving right along and then it happened!

We had been seeing one another for a couple of months by this time and one evening while sitting in front of her parents fireplace and just enjoying one another, she wanted to know if she could ask a personal question and I said sure. She asked if I was gay and I about fell off the sofa not believing what I'd just heard? When I asked (with a shocked look I'm sure) why she would ask such a question, she responded by saying we had been dating all this time and I hadn't tried anything sexual with her and she didn't understand that???

So, what's the right answer here? Since there's no rule book on dating and what we should do step by step... how do we know when is the right time to make the right moves???