The Four Gospels on Sabbath & Resurrection

[SAAN]

Here's something that baffles me about Seventh Day Adventists, and their offshoots. One of the first things an SDA member will say is, “Where did Jesus say that we don't have to keep the Sabbath?” Yet the SDA do not keep it themselves. They go to church on Saturday but they don't follow all the Old Testament Sabbath laws.


What does the Old Testament say about cooking on the Sabbath?



Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.

--Exodus 35:3 NIV


In other words, there are to be no cooking fires, and no cooking on the Sabbath.



SDA Founder Ellen White had a different view.

“While cooking upon the Sabbath should be avoided, it is not necessary to eat cold food. In cold weather let the food prepared the day before be heated.”


This EGW quote is from Testimonies for the Church, Volume 6, Section 6: Cautions & Counsels,

The Observance of the Sabbath, [sub-heading] The Sabbath in the Home.



Exodus says no cooking fires. Ellen White says that you can light a fire to warm food on the Sabbath.

EGW always puts her judgment above the scripture.​

Im not here to defined SDA's, but respond to EX 35:3, so in regards to that whole dont kindle a fire, the reason God said that, is because kindling a fire was alot of work and it was used specifically so they could do work, so it makes perfect sense to say dont kindle a fire, it its main purpose was for them to do work with it.​

 

[SAAN]

The Law of Moses was written on stone and it brought death. But God’s shining-greatness was seen when it was given. When Moses took it to the Jews, they could not look at his face because of the bright light. But that bright light in his face began to pass away. 8 The new way of life through the Holy Spirit comes with much more shining-greatness. 9 If the Law of Moses, that leads to death, came in shining-greatness, how much greater and brighter is the light that makes us right with God? 10 The Law of Moses came with shining-greatness long ago. But that light is no longer bright. The shining-greatness of the New Way of Worship that brings us life is so much brighter. 11 The shining light that came with the Law of Moses soon passed away. But the new way of life is much brighter. It will never pass away. 2Cor3:7

If I am not mistaken the law of Moses contained the 10 commandments and the 10 commandments contained the Sabbath command. The law of Mose has passed away. It is but a shadow of the new way. Col 2:16 So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17 For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality.

It brought death because they specifically chose to keep disobeying God. God would not bring the people out of slavery in Egypt to to reward them with death. the specifically agreed if they kept the commandments, they would be blessed and if they broke it they would be curses.

The penalty of sin aka Breaking the commandments still brings death, but now we have grace, so if you repent and accept Christ you are covered and if you are a unbeliever, you are punishable by death in hell.

 

[Bob S]

Im not here to defined SDA's, but respond to EX 35:3, so in regards to that whole dont kindle a fire, the reason God said that, is because kindling a fire was alot of work and it was used specifically so they could do work, so it makes perfect sense to say dont kindle a fire, it its main purpose was for them to do work with it.

That is an excuse friend. The fact is that it is not ours to make excuses for what God commanded the Israelites. If Messianics are so gun ho about keeping the law of Moses then do it without making up your own rules and only observing what you think is relevant today. That is correct, it cannot be done and God doesn't expect us to do what He intended only for the totalitarian nation of Israel to do.

 

[Bob S]

It brought death because they specifically chose to keep disobeying God.

Yes, that I agree (if it makes any difference).

God would not bring the people out of slavery in Egypt to to reward them with death.

That was not His intention, but it happened didn't it. All who came out of Egypt except Moses and Aaron died in the wilderness because they couldn't get it right. Many of the descendants also met tragic deaths because of unbelief and failure to keep their promise.

the specifically agreed if they kept the commandments, they would be blessed and if they broke it they would be curses.

The final curse was in AD70 when Israel ceased to be.

The penalty of sin aka Breaking the commandments still brings death, but now we have grace, so if you repent and accept Christ you are covered and if you are a unbeliever, you are punishable by death in hell.

I am sure glad God is the judge. Grace, grace, marvelous grace.

 

[Bob S]

Hello Bob, What part of what I have said is not in alignment with the Scriptures?

Hi Peter and welcome to the forum. I am in agreement with you until the "however". Messianic believers like most all denominations proselytize your beliefs and according to new Testament teachings are not in harmony. I was once swayed be a sincere loving group of people to accept what they believe. For 40 years I followed the teachings of that church until I really started studying the truths of scripture. There are not 5000 ways of doing what God wants of us. We know from the writings of Paul and John what Jesus expects from those who follow Him.

The beliefs found in the New Testament are aimed at Christians. The belief system found in the Old Testament at Sinai were for the nation of Israel. That system ended a the Cross. The New Testament doesn't lead Christians back to the law of Moses, Messianic beliefs do.

Please do not think that I have any less Love or respect for my Messianic friends, I love all equally. Pitting the belief system up against the new covenant doesn't ring true. I have seen so much "interpretation'' of certain scriptures and am amazed how some can stumble upon such explanations.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The penalty of sin aka Breaking the commandments still brings death, but now we have grace, so if you repent and accept Christ you are covered and if you are a unbeliever, you are punishable by death in hell.

Yes. The penalty of sin is death.
THis is still true today.
Many many many people suffer greatly because they don't seek God.
As in Corinth, a lot are dying and sick because they don't recognize what is true.
And again "for lack of knowledge" they perish (specifically here I agree that because they have no idea how to take care of themselves, many many people are sick a long long time and die painfully; 'perish' may or may not mean spiritual death, though they certainly have little evidence of spiritual life while alive partly due to "lack of knowledge"(experiential knowledge in Christ) )

 

[Shimshon]

What did Yeshua say?

On one hand he says, "… so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth…."

Yet on the other, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem; and the Son of Man will be delivered to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn Him to death, and will hand Him over to the Gentiles to mock and scourge and crucify Him, and on the third day He will be raised up." Matt 20:18-19


If we were talking a literal, western reckoning of three days and three nights, then Yeshua would have arisen when? On the fourth day! This and many other errors in biblical interpretation are due mainly to our attempt to explain ancient, Eastern practice and mindsets through modern, Western, rational understanding. As is the case here, an attempt at literal application leads to an error somewhere else.


With all this in mind, we understand that, "three days and three nights", simply meant at "some point on the third day."

 

[BobRyan]

Luke 24
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And on the first of the sabbaths, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices they made ready, and certain [others] with them,
2 and they found the stone having been rolled away from the tomb,
3 and having gone in, they found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

The 7th day is the Sabbath - Ex 20:8-11

The bible never says "the first day is the Sabbath" -- not even once ... not in the NT and not in the OT.

Your suggestion that Christ was resurrected on the Bible Sabbath - the 7th day Sabbath - is flawed concept. He was raised on week-day-1. "The first day of the week".

=============

Luke 18:12 YLT -- 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all things -- as many as I possess.

Same word as in Luke 24:1 -- 'on the first day of the week at early dawn'. NKJV/KJV/NASB

Among the several things that Harold Camping got wrong - this is one of them.

@bob Ryan

Matthew 12:40

John 11:9

Seventy two hours, NOT 39.

Neither one.



Luke 18:12 YLT -- 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all things -- as many as I possess.

Same word as in Luke 24:1 -- 'on the first day of the week at early dawn'. NKJV/KJV/NASB

Jesus said it Himself.

I believe Jesus, you believe the lie, a big lie.

All I did was quote Luke 18 to explain to you why it is that actual Bible scholars do not translate that as "I fast twice a Sabbath".

Harold Camping was an engineer who did not understand that not-so-subtle detail.

My argument is not for week-day-1 worship services nor for calling week-day-1 "Sabbath"
---------------------------------- BTW

Luke 24: 1 But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb,

Luke 24: 19 And He said to them, “What things?” And they said to Him, “The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word in the sight of God and all the people, 20 and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to the sentence of death, and crucified Him. 21 But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, it is the third day since these things happened.

The first day of the week -- was the third day.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

With all this in mind, we understand that, "three days and three nights", simply meant at "some point on the third day."

Truthfully not.
I used to think that was an okay way to look at it,
then found out Yhwh NEVER meant that at all .

But you will have a lot of 'support' , (in error), if you want to keep believing that way. So searching out the truth may be painful (and unwelcome).

 

[SAAN]

That is an excuse friend. The fact is that it is not ours to make excuses for what God commanded the Israelites. If Messianics are so gun ho about keeping the law of Moses then do it without making up your own rules and only observing what you think is relevant today. That is correct, it cannot be done and God doesn't expect us to do what He intended only for the totalitarian nation of Israel to do.

So how exactly do you obey God then, arent you picking and choosing what you will follow. There has to be some sort of guidelines you follow.

Anyone can say Love is all they need. I went to a gay wedding a month ago and thats all they talked about was Love while quoting bible verses about Love, while ignoring the verses in which God calls their lifestyle an abomination. If there is no standard, anyone an pick any choose what they want to do in the bible.

God isnt expecting perfection from us, put our desire to obey him should be for perfection, eventhough we will fall short.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So how exactly do you obey God then, arent you picking and choosing what you will follow. There has to be some sort of guidelines you follow.

Anyone can say Love is all they need. I went to a gay wedding a month ago and thats all they talked about was Love while quoting bible verses about Love, while ignoring the verses in which God calls their lifestyle an abomination. If there is no standard, anyone an pick any choose what they want to do in the bible.

God isnt expecting perfection from us, put our desire to obey him should be for perfection, eventhough we will fall short.

Delight in His Word, Seek Yhwh's Kingdom and keep Seeking.
Yhwh will reveal as you read His Word what you have never seen before and
probably never heard before.
Straight up, straight from His Word. (Bereshit(Genesis) through Revelation, including read all the Epistles - how Yhwh's people lived (not at all like today) ).

 

[Shimshon]

Truthfully not.
I used to think that was an okay way to look at it,
then found out Yhwh NEVER meant that at all .

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ 4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

Please stop trying to get me to eat the same fruit as you. We have what the Messiah said, plainly. He said he would raise on the third day. We know from history AND tradition that Judaism counts inclusively. It's not my fault the habit of rejecting Judaism (reformed mindset) causes you to create your own western understanding of an eastern custom. Thus causing all kinds of erroneous errors in your theology.

I believe Messiah meant what he said; that he would be raised ON the third day, as scripture states, and as proved out in regards to inclusive counting.

 

[SAAN]

Please stop trying to get me to eat the same fruit as you. We have what the Messiah said, plainly. He said he would raise on the third day. We know from history AND tradition that Judaism counts inclusively. It's not my fault the habit of rejecting Judaism (reformed mindset) causes you to create your own western understanding of an eastern custom. Thus causing all kinds of erroneous errors in your theology.

I believe Messiah meant what he said; that he would be raised ON the third day, as scripture states, and as proved out in regards to inclusive counting.

I have yet to meet or hear of any Jew that agrees that is the way they kept time back then.

He was placed in tomb around 6pm(sunset) on Wednesday and at sunset on Saturday night he rose, which was considered the 1st day of the week, since a new day started at sunset and fulfilled the 3 days/3 nights. All 4 gospels said he rose early in the morning on the 1st day of the week, not at sunrise. They came at sunrise to see he was already gone.

He died @ 3pm on Wed and was placed in the grave right before sunset and rose right after sunset on 1st day of the week.
Wed 6PM-Thur 6PM= 1 night/1day
Thur 6PM-Fri 6PM= 1 night/1day
Fri 6PM-Sat 6PM= 1 night/1day


So you have 3 full days & 3 full nights. Jesus gave 1 sign and 1 sign only and it was he was going to be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights. If he wasnt in the grave 3 days & 3 nights aka Fri-Sun, HE IS NOT THE MESSIAH.

(3 days/3 nights)
14th Wednesday- Died @ 3PM and placed in grave right before sunset 6pm
15th Thursday- Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread) No work allowed
16th Friday- Bought Spices to anoint the body
17th Saturday Sabbath- No work allowed & went to get more spices after the Sabbath & he Rose from the grave after sunset @ 6pm on 1st day of the week when Sabbath was over

If Jesus wasnt referring to a full 3 days and 3 nights, the best would be a Thursday
(3 days)
14th Thursday Died @ 3PM and placed in grave right before sunset 6pm
15th Friday-Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread): No work allowed
16th Saturday-Sabbath: No work allowed
17th Sunday -went to get more spices after the Sabbath & Rose from the Grave after the sun went down Saturday, so this is early on the 1st day of the week.

But anyway you look at it, Friday is ruled out. That timeline showed the Sabbath ending when he rose and it was now the 1st day of the week, so a sunrise resurrection was ruled out as well.


Its not the end of the world if Jesus didnt die on a Friday, the bible will still be valid and just the teachings of Rome can be questioned, not scriptures.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

We have what the Messiah said, plainly. He said he would raise on the third day.

Sorry. Not.
Try to find someone who knows Hebrew to tell you the Truth.


Like this (already done):
The Four Gospels on Sabbath & Resurrection

 

[amadeois]

The 72 hours start when Jesus gave up the ghost.

His body was in the tomb, but His spirit went to the center of the Earth.

He gave up the ghost at the ninth hour or by our standards - 3:00 PM. The exact same time that the High Priest's lamb was being slaughtered. Between the 2 afternoons. The early afternoon from 12 noon to 3:00 PM and the late afternoon from 3:00 PM to sunset or 6:00 PM.

It was the middle of the week.
Do you know another passage that states that the sacrifices will end in the middle of the week?

Daniel 9:27

So the 72 hours, sign of Jonah, the 3 days plus 3 nights, we're completed exactly at the 9th hour of the day of rest.

People have a problem understanding the use of the first day, the second day and specially what was meant by "THE THIRD DAY."

Those numbers are cardinal numbers and reflect a continuity of an event.

The event is the death and resurrection of Jesus.


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[amadeois]

Jesus died on the first day.
Jesus died on the second day.
Jesus died on the third day and is resurrected.

That is not proper.

Jesus ONLY died on the first day. He was not dieing for 3 consecutive days.

Was He resurrecting for 3 consequtive days? No.

He said that He will resurrect on the THIRD DAY.

Day 1. So He dies on day 0 of His death.
Day 2. The first day after His death.
Day 3. The second day after His death.
Day 4. He is resurrected on the "THIRD DAY" after His death.

So they are 4 days involved, not 3.

Day 1 is the middle of the week, Wednesday.

Day 2 is Thursday

Day 3 is Friday

Day 4 is the day of rest, the RESURRECTION SABBATH.


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[amadeois]

Yeah, the third day after He died.

Dies on day 1, a Wednesday
Thursday, after 1
Friday, after 2
Saturday, after 3

Matthew 27:63
After 3 days I will rise again.

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[Bob S]

So how exactly do you obey God then, arent you picking and choosing what you will follow. There has to be some sort of guidelines you follow.

If I were picking and choosing would that make it alright for you to do? No Saan, I am not picking and choosing. Morality covers most everything we need to know as to how we treat God and our fellow man.

Anyone can say Love is all they need. I went to a gay wedding a month ago and thats all they talked about was Love while quoting bible verses about Love, while ignoring the verses in which God calls their lifestyle an abomination. If there is no standard, anyone an pick any choose what they want to do in the bible.

I believe homosexuality is covered very well in the New Testament. Besides I have stressed in my dialogue with you and other old covenant believers that it is rituals given only to Israel that are not part of the Christian way of life. Moral issues are forever. Christians can and should glean from the Old Testament. It is full of very inspiring stories and history. What is of real great value to Christians is how God's plan of salvation has played out since Adam. It has taken a lot of twists, turns, joys and disappointments, but we can see How God has used various people and nations throughout history to accomplish His plan.

God isnt expecting perfection from us, put our desire to obey him should be for perfection, eventhough we will fall short.

What I am trying to get across to you and those who read our posts is that we shouldn't burden ourselves with laws that in no way pertain to a Christian life. Like I have written several times, God has never ever asked a gentile to observe laws given only to Israel, so why would gentiles burden themselves with trying to observe something that would not gain them one iota? The sad thing is, that when we try to observe laws that we are not asked to observe, we come up short and feel guilty. I know from my experience as an Adventist and the insistence that we must "keep" the Sabbath Holy by not doing our own pleasure. I failed every week and the guilt was tremendous. And to think it was all for naught. I hope this helps.

 

[bugkiller]

Im not here to defined SDA's, but respond to EX 35:3, so in regards to that whole dont kindle a fire, the reason God said that, is because kindling a fire was alot of work and it was used specifically so they could do work, so it makes perfect sense to say dont kindle a fire, it its main purpose was for them to do work with it.

Justify anything you like.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

It brought death because they specifically chose to keep disobeying God. God would not bring the people out of slavery in Egypt to to reward them with death. the specifically agreed if they kept the commandments, they would be blessed and if they broke it they would be curses.

The penalty of sin aka Breaking the commandments still brings death, but now we have grace, so if you repent and accept Christ you are covered and if you are a unbeliever, you are punishable by death in hell.

17 O Lord, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance. Isa 63

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Rom 11:32

bugkiller