The Foreknowledge of God

[savedfromdistruction]

It pays to study hermeneutics and understand a little bit about such important matters as you discuss. From Principles of Interpretation by Clinton Lockhart, Revised Edition 1915 -

Anthropomorphism, or more accurately: "Anthropopathy is an ascription of the passions of man to God. An example of this may be found in Job 21:20, 'And let him drink of the wrath of the Almighty.' While we often read in Scriptures of the wrath of God, we cannot understand that He literally exercises this passion of man; but that it is a figure used to represent the necessary attitude of infinite justice toward the disobedient. Another example is in Zech. 8:2, 'Thus said the Lord of hosts, I am jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I am jealous for her with great fury.' Here the passions of jealousy and fury are human, but ascribed to God, not because Hew may be supposed to enter into a rage as a human being, but because the results of His disposition toward Israel in her idolatry are similar to hose of a man acting under these passions."

When Scripture speaks of God repenting, do you actually think God changed his mind like mortal man?

Yes I am aware of those things (Anthropomorphism), but believing what God says in His word and not trying to change it to fit the god we create in our minds is called faith. I choose faith.
Man changes his mind on a whim. God has changed His mind according to scripture, which you reject, because of allowance. Man gets angry with rage and God gets angry with rage, according to scripture, which again you reject. I am reminded of Jesus cleansing the temple and the Greek wording is a rage. Man's rage is unholy while God's is holy. So yes according to scripture God does change His mind, not as in learning or making a mistake, but to accommodate our prayers and yes God does get angry even have rage although holy in nature.

 

[Hammster]

God has wrath, not rage.

 

[savedfromdistruction]

God has wrath, not rage.

That is hilarious! God's wrath is equal to His mercy and both are governed by His holiness.
The Attributes of God by A.W. Pink-The Wrath of God
When men look on Him at the Great white thrown judgment they will feel rage.

 

[crimsonleaf]

That is hilarious! God's wrath is equal to His mercy and both are governed by His holiness.
The Attributes of God by A.W. Pink-The Wrath of God
When men look on Him at the Great white thrown judgment they will feel rage.

If ever a post missed the point of a previous reply, this is it.

 

[savedfromdistruction]

If ever a post missed the point of a previous reply, this is it.

Fine, then how about explaining what was missed rather then just criticizing?

 

[crimsonleaf]

Fine, then how about explaining what was missed rather then just criticizing?

You appear to have ignored the previous poster's comment about God not exhibiting rage, and posted about Him showing wrath, which was the poster's point.

Does that help?

 

[Hammster]

That is hilarious! God's wrath is equal to His mercy and both are governed by His holiness.
The Attributes of God by A.W. Pink-The Wrath of God
When men look on Him at the Great white thrown judgment they will feel rage.

God has wrath, not rage.

 

[savedfromdistruction]

God has wrath, not rage.

Don't tell that to those who stand the judgment as he is really angry with them.

 

[Hammster]

Don't tell that to those who stand the judgment as he is really angry with them.

That would be wrath.

 

[savedfromdistruction]

That would be wrath.

How much? A dribble or a pouring out, a flood gate? By the way in the Revelation 16:1 it reads
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth

The Greek word translated wrath is "thymos" and it means
passion, angry, heat, anger forthwith boiling up and soon subsiding again
2) glow, ardour, the wine of passion, inflaming wine (which either drives the drinker mad or kills him with its strength)

That sounds a lot like rage.

 

[Hammster]

How much? A dribble or a pouring out, a flood gate? By the way in the Revelation 16:1 it reads
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth

The Greek word translated wrath is "thymos" and it means
passion, angry, heat, anger forthwith boiling up and soon subsiding again
2) glow, ardour, the wine of passion, inflaming wine (which either drives the drinker mad or kills him with its strength)

That sounds a lot like rage.

Let me explain what I mean. Wrath is God's righteous indignation against sinful man. Wrath is what was poured out on His Son as our sins were imputed to Him. So wrath is God's anger under control.

Rage is what Pharaoh had. Rage is what Herod had. It's unrighteous indignation.

 

[savedfromdistruction]

Let me explain what I mean. Wrath is God's righteous indignation against sinful man. Wrath is what was poured out on His Son as our sins were imputed to Him. So wrath is God's anger under control.

Rage is what Pharaoh had. Rage is what Herod had. It's unrighteous indignation.

So in the end it is semantics

 

[Hammster]

So in the end it is semantics

Yes, and rightly so. The bible talks about God's wrath, rage.

 

[savedfromdistruction]

Yes, and rightly so. The bible talks about God's wrath, rage.

Amen

 

[Skala]

I agree with the OP. God does not change his mind, because to change your mind implies that you learned new information that you didn't know before.

We know that God knows everything, and always has.
And we know that there is no shadow of turning in Him. Ie, he is unchangeable. The same yesterday, today, and forever.

The argument of Isaiah 38:1-5 of God changing his mind, I think that is a weak argument.

The person who made this argument (SeventhValley) assumes too many things and draws conclusions from his assumptions. The passage says that Hezekiah became sick, and this prompted him to pray. Upon receiving the prayer, God added years to his life.

What SeventhValley assumes is that God had nothing to do with Hezekiah getting sick and then praying. If we know anything about God's sovereignty, we can rightly conclude that it was God's eternal plan and purpose all along for:

1) Hezekiah to get sick
2) pray to God
3) have 15 more years of life.

God's sovereignty over the whole situation is completely missing from any argument that says that God "changed his mind". For it is plain that if God had planned to do something today, he has always planned to do that very thing from eternity past. Thus he didn't change his mind to give 15 more years to Hezekiah, but it was his plan all along.

This is always the conclusion you will end up at if you think these things through to their logical ends, for example, and for the sake of the argument:

If God had truly changed his mind and decided to give 15 more years to Hezekiah, then according to His omniscience, he always knew, from eternity past, that He would do so. Therefore, since God's knowledge of future events cannot be wrong, it was always the case that God would add 15 more years to Hezekiah's life. Thus you arrive at the same conclusion as before: it was God's decretive, eternal plan for Hezekiah to receive 15 more years of life.

No matter which route you take, you arrive at the conclusion that this was always God's plan.

 

[crimsonleaf]

I agree with the OP. God does not change his mind, because to change your mind implies that you learned new information that you didn't know before.

We know that God knows everything, and always has.
And we know that there is no shadow of turning in Him. Ie, he is unchangeable. The same yesterday, today, and forever.

The argument of Isaiah 38:1-5 of God changing his mind, I think that is a weak argument.

The person who made this argument (SeventhValley) assumes too many things and draws conclusions from his assumptions. The passage says that Hezekiah became sick, and this prompted him to pray. Upon receiving the prayer, God added years to his life.

What SeventhValley assumes is that God had nothing to do with Hezekiah getting sick and then praying. If we know anything about God's sovereignty, we can rightly conclude that it was God's eternal plan and purpose all along for:

1) Hezekiah to get sick
2) pray to God
3) have 15 more years of life.

God's sovereignty over the whole situation is completely missing from any argument that says that God "changed his mind". For it is plain that if God had planned to do something today, he has always planned to do that very thing from eternity past. Thus he didn't change his mind to give 15 more years to Hezekiah, but it was his plan all along.

This is always the conclusion you will end up at if you think these things through to their logical ends, for example, and for the sake of the argument:

If God had truly changed his mind and decided to give 15 more years to Hezekiah, then according to His omniscience, he always knew, from eternity past, that He would do so. Therefore, since God's knowledge of future events cannot be wrong, it was always the case that God would add 15 more years to Hezekiah's life. Thus you arrive at the same conclusion as before: it was God's decretive, eternal plan for Hezekiah to receive 15 more years of life.

No matter which route you take, you arrive at the conclusion that this was always God's plan.

 

[SeventhValley]

Genesis 6:6 (NKJV)

6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

God can regret, but only because free will is part of his plan. So is being able to change. Unless God can change his own plans he is not God but is limited by materialistic determinism. That is why God made people. God could not expereince grief or other emotions without agents allowed to act outside his will so he could fully express his Godhood on and to them. But unless they are allowed to have free will they are not in his image. Without free will God could not experience the full range of emotion that he created as they would be doing his will and he would expereince nothing.


Matthew 7:21 (NKJV)

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.


If we were not allowed by God in conjuction with his will to go against it then all would be saved. They would be saved because even people doing evil would be doing God's will as they could do nothing else. Thst would be Universalism.

 

[Skala]

God can regret, but only because free will is part of his plan. So is being able to change. Unless God can change his own plans he is not God but is limited by materialistic determinism. That is why God made people. God could not expereince grief or other emotions without agents allowed to act outside his will so he could fully express his Godhood on and to them. But unless they are allowed to have free will they are not in his image. Without free will God could not experience the full range of emotion that he created as they would be doing his will and he would expereince nothing.

There's sooooo many baseless assertions here that you presuppose to be absolutely true. How do you know that ANY of the above is actually true? It is 100% pure opinion and speculation on your part.

 

[SeventhValley]

There's sooooo many baseless assertions here that you presuppose to be absolutely true. How do you know that ANY of the above is actually true? It is 100% pure opinion and speculation on your part.

I quoted the two main scriptures:we know God regreted forming humans but that regret was part of his will otherwise it would not have happened.

We know Lord Jesus said only those who do the will of the Father enter the Kingdom.

So we know God wanted to experience grief and that all will not do his will.

God could not experience this without people. It was a new expereince for God;unless God felt grief due to someone disobeying him before creation.

 

[Skala]

I quoted the two main scriptures:we know God regreted forming humans but that regret was part of his will otherwise it would not have happened.

We know Lord Jesus said only those who do the will of the Father enter the Kingdom.

So we know God wanted to experience grief and that all will not do his will.

God could not experience this without people. It was a new expereince for God;unless God felt grief due to someone disobeying him before creation.

None of the scriptures you quoted even come close to proving (or even talking about) the assertions you made:

God can regret, but only because free will is part of his plan. So is being able to change. Unless God can change his own plans he is not God but is limited by materialistic determinism. That is why God made people. God could not expereince grief or other emotions without agents allowed to act outside his will so he could fully express his Godhood on and to them. But unless they are allowed to have free will they are not in his image. Without free will God could not experience the full range of emotion that he created as they would be doing his will and he would expereince nothing.

Almost the entire thing you said, but especially the bolded parts (I bolded them) are huge assertions that you assume are true, and present them as true, without any evidence whatsoever that they are true. You made a bunch of absolute statements without scriptural proof or any kind of evidence at all.