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Colter

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'Ello, I'm just curious about what Christians tend to think about the Flood. Just say what you believe - there's no wrong answer.

(1a) The Flood was global and occurred as depicted.

(1b) The Flood was global but God also intervened in unmentioned ways (e.g. helping freshwater fish to survive).

(1c) The Flood was local.

(1d) I don't know whether the Flood was global or local but it was one of these.

(1e) I don't know and no one can know whether the Flood was global or local but it was one of these.

(2a) The Flood story is a retelling of a previous flood story and it did not involve Noah.

(2b) The Flood story is a metaphor.

(3a) I don't know how to evaluate the Flood story.

(3b) I don't know how to evaluate the Flood story and no one else does either.


If you picked from the (1) choices, please pick from one of these in your reply:

(1i) God allowed all life to suffer in the course of dying.

(1ii) God allowed only the wicked to suffer; animals and babies died painlessly.

(1iii) I don't care whether innocent beings suffered.

(1iv) No innocent beings suffered because there were no innocent beings.

(1v) I don't know how the suffering was distributed but I hope for case (1i).

(1vi) I don't know how the suffering was distributed but I hope for case (1ii).


If you picked from one of the (2) choices then please explain what you think the story means or why it was included.


If I neglected to mention a possibility, please share that possibility - even if it's not your belief.


Thanks!
I believe the flood story was local and had nothing to do with God or judgment. Noah built his home in "houseboat fashion" as he was aware of the periotic floods of the rejoin. He would put his animals on the porch at night just in case. People mocked him, but one day a flood came and destroyed everyone in the area but Noah, his family and animals.

When the Hebrew priest were rewriting their history in Babylon, they used and expanded this local flood legend to drown the whole world in its wickedness because they were unable to trace their bloodlines back to Adam and Eve whom they assumed were the first humans.

The flood is a ridiculous exaggeration that prejudices people from faith in Jesus.
 
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Nihilist Virus

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Hi the Bible claims to be inspired without error and many of these passages are turned from being presented as history to being presented as a metaphor. This particular account of a global flood is presented throughout the Bible as a historical global event. If the oceans rose over the top of the mountains there is no way it could be taken as a local event as the sea levels would rise equally on both coast of the same oceans. Peter and Jude give insight into what was going on back in the day.

2 Pet For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,
Note; Peter is speaking historically and brings up fallen angels and the flood. These ideas are related. As Satan certainly is fallen but is yet to be bound. So what angels are bound and is it related to the flood? Jude says this, And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; Now we have another passage that we will put over the top that is from Genesis that ties the purpose of the flood and the destiny of these angels together.
Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.
3 And the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive[fn] with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
Note we see the sons of God used as a term here and they somehow introduced giants into the world both before and after the flood so understanding who the sons of God are is key to understanding the flood and the other passages I have quoted about . In Job we are introduced to this term and Job is thought by many to be the oldest book in the Bible.
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan[fn] also came among them. 7 And the LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
So Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
8 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”
Here is Job Satan is named among the sons of God. Satan is the chief adversary and is still free. But Jude speaks of those angels who did not keep their 1st estate are bound until the great day. The sons of God taking women as wives produced a race of Nephalim. Man is created in Gods image and these beings would have demonic seed not the seed of man. Nimrod and the tower of Babel is another incident that is the seat of all the mystery pagan religions. This rebellion against God is the same thing of unifying the planet set for the end times. The corruption of the race of mankind left few who's genetic material was not effected and also corrupted the peoples with practices that were wholly immoral. The flood was known to God before the creation of man and the universe and it shows the righteous judgement of God and the grace of God at the same time.
If my narrative is true there should be plenty of evidence for a global flood and there is. Look up a guy named Ian Juby and type in flood of Noah and or a guy named LA Marzulli and type in Nephalim and you will see well documented evidence and a major coverup by government officials who have taken the hard evidence that is well documented. Also look up pre flood megalithic architecture. You can see the ruins built by these guys all over the world. Anyways Satan still roams the angles who had relations with man who left their 1st estate are bound until the great day. The book of Enoch goes into great detail and even names the head angels who fell and records the technology they gave to man forbidden knowledge. These days are interesting as God promises to judge the world again and relates it to being just as the days of Noah.

Good point. It would be strange for God to compell (or allow?) the New Testament writers to reference the Flood as an actual event if it never happened.
 
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Nihilist Virus

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I believe the flood story was local and had nothing to do with God or judgment. Noah built his home in "houseboat fashion" as he was aware of the periotic floods of the rejoin. He would put his animals on the porch at night just in case. People mocked him, but one day a flood came and destroyed everyone in the area but Noah, his family and animals.

When the Hebrew priest were rewriting their history in Babylon, they used and expanded this local flood legend to drown the whole world in its wickedness because they were unable to trace their bloodlines back to Adam and Eve whom they assumed were the first humans.

The flood is a ridiculous exaggeration that prejudices people from faith in Jesus.

Since you have this story being written in Babylon, do you think it's based on the Epic of Gilgamesh?
 
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Nihilist Virus

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Adam and Eve and Noah were all real historical people with real DNA and they are a part of the family tree of the Human Race today. Adam and Eve lived in a Real Garden in Eden around 6,000 years ago. Right now the evidence points to Eden being under the Persian Gulf north of the straits of hormuz. This is what satellite photos from sources like Google Earth indicates. Before Adam and Eve there was death but not death as a result of sin or transgression.

I personally believe we are all born in innocence and purity. Sin involves choice. If children suffer it is because of the sin of their parents. Yet God is able to cause all things to work out for the best and everything can be used for our benefit. We become fully accountable at puberty when we are able to reproduce.

Of course the story is a metaphor as there have been 6 extinctions in the history of the Earth. The current age or era that we live in began around 12,900 years ago. Each day is 1,000 years. I use the nano diamond comet for a marker as well as the apophis comet. NOTE: I do not claim these comets caused anything. I only use them as markers so we know where we are at on the calendar.

"Nanodiamond" Find Supports Comet Extinction Theory

NASA Rules Out Earth Impact in 2036 for Asteroid Apophis

Ok, just to clarifiy, you hold that each of the first six days of creation were 1000 years, that the earth is 13000 years old, but that the Flood did not actually occur?
 
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joshua 1 9

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Ok, just to clarifiy, you hold that each of the first six days of creation were 1000 years, that the earth is 13000 years old, but that the Flood did not actually occur?
Of course the flood happened. From our perspective it was a local flood that involved a biodiverse ecosystem, not the whole biosphere. At the time the eco system that Noah was a part of was his whole world. Basicly what was on the Ark was domesticated plants and animals. I have studied the history of the domesticated of plants and animals in the middle east for over 50 years now. So I know that science and the Bible agree 100% and there is no conflict or contradictions between the two. Science is based on the natural record and that is in agreement with the Bible that represents the written recorded history of mankind.

Gerold Schroeder says there are 32 verses on Genesis Chapter one. In the library of MIT and Harvard University there are hundreds of thousands of books that talk about what we learn in those 32 verses. A Hebrew word is very powerful and most of the Hebrew words in the Bible would require a whole book to explain. People usually ask me questions that would take a whole book to properly answer, yet as they say we have to keep it short and simple.

I have no problem with YEC and I also accept OEC. I just do not try to explain OEC, I leave that up to people like Gerold Schroeder because he is the one with the Phd so he knows a lot more about the subject then I do. Bishop Usshers book is very accurate for the last 6,000 years. He says nothing about what happened before that point in time because he knew nothing about it. Then people like Darby came along to help us try to make sense of the world before the recorded history that we read in the Bible. As we began to discover the natural record in nature and use that to help us better understand the Bible and man's recorded history.
 
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Albion

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I voted 1C, but I don't feel comfortable with calling it a "local" flood. A "regional" one, still in contrast to worldwide, would be more accurate. In part that's because local floods in that region were common (and continued to be so until modern times). This one had to be special in scope and severity.

As for the second part, I'd be inclined to answer that everyone was killed, except that I agree with -57 that there were none who were innocent (as the OP wanted to say). That's indicated right in the OT account of the Flood.
 
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Colter

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Since you have this story being written in Babylon, do you think it's based on the Epic of Gilgamesh?
No, I think it was a man named Noah. It would have been a known legend for it to have been accepted in the priests new records of the Israelites.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Local floods don't cover mountains.
Study up on the straits of hormuz. I believe that was a land damn at one time holding back the water. This area is indeed surrounded by mountains.

189700-004-AFD83B3A.jpg
 
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Vicomte13

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So its might make right? when man does it its despicable, but if God does it, its all fine and dandy yea? Ok then....
Yes, that is exactly correct. God is Nature, among other things, and the theist's God knows what he is doing and why. The Pantheist's God doesn't know anything, because It is impersonal Nature, but either way the results are the same: everything dies, and God does it all.

The difference between God doing it and man doing it is that Christian's God knows what comes next and has disposition all authority over the spirits that leave the body at death. Man knows nothing about any of that, and if he accepts the revelations about it and does know, then he also knows that God forbade him from killing.

The Pantheist's God knows nothing and kills without a will - universal death is just the way it is, and you may as well recriminate against a tree stump as against the Pantheist's God OR the real God, which is the Christian's God.

Since the recriminations against God are completely unavailing, I guess the next best thing is to lash out at your fellow humans who speak about it, because you might be able to hurt them for telling you the truth.
 
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JD16

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Yes, that is exactly correct. God is Nature, among other things, and the theist's God knows what he is doing and why. The Pantheist's God doesn't know anything, because It is impersonal Nature, but either way the results are the same: everything dies, and God does it all.

The difference between God doing it and man doing it is that Christian's God knows what comes next and has disposition all authority over the spirits that leave the body at death. Man knows nothing about any of that, and if he accepts the revelations about it and does know, then he also knows that God forbade him from killing.

The Pantheist's God knows nothing and kills without a will - universal death is just the way it is, and you may as well recriminate against a tree stump as against the Pantheist's God OR the real God, which is the Christian's God.

Since the recriminations against God are completely unavailing, I guess the next best thing is to lash out at your fellow humans who speak about it, because you might be able to hurt them for telling you the truth.

Atheist do not think that the flood even happen, and it does not bother them that others who believe does so. Lashing out at your fellow humans for speaking what they think is true would be ridiculous, as the Atheist do not even believing in a supreme deity to begin with. To us Atheist, if a disaster happens, its just nature at work, no need to invoke the supernatural
 
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thesunisout

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Ok... sure, you advocate a plain reading. But when Jesus tells several different people on several different occasions to sell all they have and give to the poor, suddenly exegesis is a complicated, delicate art.

No, I am advocating for you to personally study the scriptures to see if these things are so. I advocate for you to pray and ask Jesus Christ to teach you what the word is saying.
 
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No, I am advocating for you to personally study the scriptures to see if these things are so. I advocate for you to pray and ask Jesus Christ to teach you what the word is saying.

What happens when your Jesus Christ contradicts someone else's Jesus Christ?
 
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marineimaging

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The flood story happened as depicted. Exactly. There were no innocent beings. The why and how was not necessary to explain. God created all, God could choose to erase all. Or not. Life in heaven is my goal. Why worry about children who are going to heaven. Every person who was old enough to be a sinner was a sinner except Noah. Every person who was not yet at the age of knowing the difference between right and wrong was not a sinner and is in Heaven. That is so simple to understand. Why do you make it so hard? Unless you want to confuse non-believers.
 
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section9+1

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As far as innocent people dying in the ancient flood, innocent people die every day. It's unfortunate, but unchangeable. With or without God, innocent people die. So I don't feel to distraught about what happened back then. If you want an education in innocent deaths, visit a cemetery older than 70 years. It's the way of things. We think some great wrong has occurred when an innocent dies, but it is normal. With God there is at least hope. Without him there is nothing.
 
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