The Flood (2)

[Inan3]

When He said He created all things is true. It is theologically true; however, the genesis account does not need to be taken literally to be theologically true. Infact, the same theological truths exist in either interpretation. An allegorical interpretation actually normalizes the observed creation (earth, universe) to the scriptures. It is the literal interpretation that creates dissonance between creation and biblical account.

If you think I am wrong, then show me why a literal interpretation of genesis is correct and describe why the earth exhibits age and history.

Not tonight. I'm going to bed. Sweet dreams.

 

[Molal]

Not tonight. I'm going to bed. Sweet dreams.

Very well.

 

[Nathan Poe]

I'll tell you how I would respond to that. I would say Jesus Christ IS Lord of my life and I would lay down my life for Him.

Quick question: How many, if any, other lives would you lay down for Him?

I would give up all for Him.

How much would you take for Him?

If that means standing up against those who would contradict His Word I would do it.

Is that all you'd do? Stand?

There are plenty of scientists that don't believe in evolution.

All for the very reasons you've cited above.

Why not talk with them. I would if I was convinced that Jesus was Lord and that He would never lie and that His Word was FINAL authority.

We've already heard form them -- their faith is admirable; their science, flawed.

I am not being condescending. I'm talking to you straight up. Christianity requires a choice. It's not for the wavering. He that wavereth is like a wave tossed too and fro, let not that man think he shall receive anything from God. I'm just trying to get you to make a decision on where you are. As long as you are questioning everyone will seem condescending to you.

So, are people condescending to you? You claimed to question everything.

Are you on the Lord's side or not? Just trying to provoke you to make the decision. Only you can do it. Think about it.

How does one pick a side, insofar as evolution is concerned? Might an evolutionist be on the Lord's Side as well?

Are you saying that when the scripture says He created all things that that is fallacy?

Are you saying that when Scripture details exactly how, and in precise detail, how He created all things, that is not a fallacy?

 

[Inan3]

So do we, Inan -- science wouldn't be science without constant questioning. Evolution has thus far stood up to the challenge. Perhaps one day it'll fail, but it'll be a scientist asking questions who brings it down.

Myself, I questioned God long before I questioned evolution -- and God came up short on answers.

What did you hear when you questioned God?

I heard answers. It wasn't always immediately but I don't think I have ever asked God questions that He hasn't answered me on.

 

[Inan3]

Quick question: How many, if any, other lives would you lay down for Him?



How much would you take for Him?



Is that all you'd do? Stand?



All for the very reasons you've cited above.



We've already heard form them -- their faith is admirable; their science, flawed.



So, are people condescending to you? You claimed to question everything.



How does one pick a side, insofar as evolution is concerned? Might an evolutionist be on the Lord's Side as well?



Are you saying that when Scripture details exactly how, and in precise detail, how He created all things, that is not a fallacy?

Later NP, later. I'm going to bed.

 

[Contracelsus]

Well, all I can say Molal, is what do you put first in your life. If the Lord is first in your life you should be looking to Him for peace in this matter certainly not atheistic scientists. If you have made Christ the Lord your life look unto Him. If you haven't, then you are not really a christian. A Christian will put Him first. You can't have one foot in faith and the other in unbelief. You can't serve two masters. Choose you this day whom you will serve.

You seem to paint a picture of an easy choice. It isn't easy for everyone. Again, you seem to be looking at things from your own lens.

There is a wedge between evolution and the church when they say that the scriptures are not literal.

This isn't wholly accurate. The wedge of which you speak is only a problem for the small portion of Literalists in the Christian community.

My wife was raised a Catholic and she was raised with no problem in this area. I used to be a Christian and I had no problem in this area with evolution.

Evolution is not a wedge of any sort unless you MAKE it one.

It isn't a problem for most Christians.

When they say that God lied.

No Christians who are ok with evolution say "God Lied". That is a misrepresentation of the debate.

Atheists like myself don't care what God said or did or didn't do. But the majority of Christians who believe in evolution see no "lie" nor do they think God lied.

You need to decide which side you are on. No ones against you. You just need to figure out where you stand on the scriptures. The scriptures say that all things were made by Him and without Him nothing was made.

This would seem to paint him into a corner. It is the tiny Creationist flock that wants this strict dividing line. You wish to drive a wedge where none need exist.

Like I said, in terms of religion it matters not to me at all. But I know plenty of Christians who see no problem whatsoever with evolution. To paint this stark dividing line is to force some people further away from your God.

If that is your ministry then so be it.

I don't think it serves anyone any good to make false dichotomies or paint exclusions where none need exist.

Look, I'm not a believer anymore so I don't see a need for religion in my life. But I see that many people do want religion. They want faith, just as I did at one time. They want a life that derives some different meaning beyond the physical. I could be completely mistaken in being an atheist. But that's my choice, my cross to bear.

To that end I hope Molal keeps seeking and he finds what helps him most. But it serves no one's ends to put stumbling blocks in anyones' way. And a wedge in defining faith would seem to be a terrible stumbling block.

 

[Contracelsus]

Yes, I think the Muslims are under a hard religion. The are not happy but they don't know anything else.

And when you've actually met a muslim and talked to them for more than a minute, come on back here and let us know what you've learned.

There are plenty of them out there. They look like regular human beings and have families just like us! They love their children and respect their parents just like us!

They breathe oxygen and eat food, just like a human being!

I'm not a defender of Islam. Far from it. I find it to have strands within it that are quite offensive to freedom and to me. But I also find offensive strands within Christianity. For every Imam who preaches death to all infidels there's a Fred Phelps blathering on about how God hates homosexuals.

For every islamic theocrat trying to run a country there's a Huckabee who wants to win back America for Christ or a Romney who thinks freedom needs religion. For every "Al'lahu Akbar" on a national flag there's an "In God we Trust" on a national coin.

Religions can match each other excess for excess. But the vast majority of Muslims are no less happy about their walk with God than you are about yours.

It is patently absurd to assume muslims are any more or less unhappy than you are about their religion.

But if you go out into the world and actually meet people who think differently from you, you might learn and grow.

Maybe it would help your own walk with God to appreciate all his other children.

I've never understood why God would make so many people who seem to despise each other over their variant understandings of Him.

 

[TheOutsider]

I'll tell you how I would respond to that. I would say Jesus Christ IS Lord of my life and I would lay down my life for Him. I would give up all for Him. If that means standing up against those who would contradict His Word I would do it. There are plenty of scientists that don't believe in evolution. Why not talk with them. I would if I was convinced that Jesus was Lord and that He would never lie and that His Word was FINAL authority.

I am not being condescending. I'm talking to you straight up. Christianity requires a choice. It's not for the wavering. He that wavereth is like a wave tossed too and fro, let not that man think he shall receive anything from God. I'm just trying to get you to make a decision on where you are. As long as you are questioning everyone will seem condescending to you. Are you on the Lord's side or not? Just trying to provoke you to make the decision. Only you can do it. Think about it.

I would be careful in provoking others to make hasty decisions. You might not like the results.

 

[FishFace]

As to "debating" with Muslems or others, I certainly would give them the Word of God. I believe they need to be set free and it is the Word of God that can and will do that. There is enough power in it to open their eyes to the truth.

I bet you there isn't! The "Word of God" to everyone except you and other Christians are just words. They don't have to be true, so why should we listen to them if we already believe something else?

As to AV's use of the Word of God in regards to world-religion, if he believes what the scriptures say about it why not quote it?

But why would he? It's not going to add anything to debate. The problem is not really that he used the quotation but that he seems to think that's it, finished - problem solved.
But it's only solved if you believe the Bible - he doesn't seem to appreciate that a debate is something in which you can't just present evidence in your eyes, you have to try and convince the other people.

 

[FishFace]

Molal, we Christians hold science up to a higher Standard. This doesn't mean we do anything different from what anyone else does, it just means we hold it up to a higher Standard.

I hold the Bible up to a higher Standard than you guys - the intellect.

 

[AV1611VET]

I hold the Bible up to a higher Standard than you guys - the intellect.

And?

 

[dad]

I hold the Bible up to a higher Standard than you guys - the intellect.

Oh? So your thoughts are above God's, and are the measure we are to judge God on. I see. Well, you ain't holding it up very far.

 

[Split Rock]

Oh? So your thoughts are above God's, and are the measure we are to judge God on. I see. Well, you ain't holding it up very far.

I thought your thoughts are above God... or at least, on the same level as God. You certainly claim that you are far removed from the fallability of mankind.

 

[dad]

I thought your thoughts are above God... or at least, on the same level as God. You certainly claim that you are far removed from the fallability of mankind.

Well you thought wrong. However, in my post above, I quoted something I responded to, not made it up.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Oh? So your thoughts are above God's, and are the measure we are to judge God on. I see. Well, you ain't holding it up very far.

he was talking about the Bible -- did you confuse it with God again? that's cute.

 

[dad]

he was talking about the Bible -- did you confuse it with God again? that's cute.

He was talking about God's word to man being held up to the standard of his little brain and thoughts. Not me that is confused. (Jesus confirmed the word as from God, you believe in Jesus?)

 

[Nathan Poe]

He was talking about God's word to man being held up to the standard of his little brain and thoughts.

have you confused man's words about God with God's word to man?

Seems to me you've forgotten how little your own brain is.

Not me that is confused. (Jesus confirmed the word as from God, you believe in Jesus?)

Believe in him how?

 

[dad]

have you confused man's words about God with God's word to man?

Seems to me you've forgotten how little your own brain is.



Believe in him how?

Jesus had His words pretty well verified with many folks. His words say that all scripture must be fulfilled, every jot ant tittle. You ain't makin it go away...ever.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Jesus had His words pretty well verified with many folks. His words say that all scripture must be fulfilled, every jot ant tittle. You ain't makin it go away...ever.

Make what go away?

 

[dad]

Make what go away?

His word.