The first resurection

[sovereigngrace]

The Kingdom of Heaven comes to earth.

We are told to pray [ thy kingdom come]
Revelation clearly tells us soon [the kingdoms
of this world would become Christs.]

Matthew 6:10 says, “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven”

Firstly, we must realize that every other request in this prayer is immediate and current in that it relates to the ‘here and now’. It is also personal and particular in that it has an intimate effect upon the actual individual making the petition. It is therefore a cohesive prayer that is totally and fully achievable in the life of the disciple making it. This prayer in full is therefore evidently answerable and realisable to the child of God in this life.

· “Give us this day our daily bread” (v11).
· “Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors” (v12).
· “Lead us not into temptation” (v13).
· “Deliver us from evil” (v13).

There is no contextual warrant then to divorce “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven” from the undoubted harmony and overall make-up of the rest of the prayer. Unfortunately, some premillennialists manipulate the passage to make it sound as if it reads ‘Thy kingdom come…in earth, as it is in heaven’ thus conveniently omitting or glossing over the inspired and vital words “Thy will be done” as if they are not in it. The passages reads:

· “Thy kingdom come” (v10a).
· “Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven” (v10b).

It is thus a harmonious interrelated petition which is fully realized in the life of the Church generally and the believer individually in which they see the will of God manifested and performed on this earth “as it is in heaven.” It is also a request to see the Kingdom of God (which is everywhere else described as a spiritual eternal kingdom) manifested in and through the believers’ life experientially. It is NOT a detached distant request to see a future temporal earthly millennial kingdom manifested after Christ’s Second Coming.

N. T. Wright writes in The Lord’s Prayer as a Paradigm of Christian Prayer: “The presence of the kingdom meant that God’s anointed Messiah was here and was at work — that he was, in fact, accomplishing, as events soon to take place would show, the sovereign and saving rule of God. The future of the kingdom was the time when justice and peace would embrace one another and the whole world — the time from which perspective one could look back and see that the work had, indeed, begun with the presence and work of the anointed leader.”

“To pray ‘your kingdom come’ at Jesus’ bidding, therefore, meant to align oneself with his kingdom movement and to seek God’s power in furthering its ultimate fulfillment. It meant adding one’s own prayer to the total performance of Jesus’ agenda. It meant celebrating in the presence of God the fact that the kingdom was already breaking in, and looking eagerly for its consummation. From the centrality of the kingdom in his public proclamation and the centrality of prayer in his private practice, we must conclude that this kingdom prayer grew directly out of and echoed Jesus’ own regular praying.”

This is simply an individual's petition. The kingdom God can be manifested through us as individuals because the kingdom of God is within. I see this as a request for the power of God to be displayed through us – nothing more, nothing less.

 

[sovereigngrace]

You said:
The second coming brings a close to the day of salvation.


While that is a common doctrine in the churches, the fact is,
there are MANY passages that talk about the time AFTER the
end of the Great Commission and even passages that talk
about the time AFTER the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beasts.

Also...

There is the issue of the "Kingdoms of heaven" and the
"Kingdom of God". These are NOT the same, although
they can be used interchangeably in certain instances.

---------

The phrase "Kingdom of Heaven" is used thirty-three (33) times
in the Bible and every time the phrase represents the many unsaved "tares" and/or the few saved "wheat", associated with preaching the "Word of the Kingdom" (the Gospel) during one of the FOUR KINGDOMS on earth...
or it represents ONLY the saved "wheat" harvested into the
(5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven".

The four "Kingdoms of Heaven" are physical and temporal Kingdoms...
and there's a "harvest" of Saints at the end of each, with the
"Final Harvest" including only the "Wise Virgins" living during the
(4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]

---------------------------------------------------------
The phrase "Kingdom of God" is used seventy (70) times in the
Bible and every time it represents the Holy Spirit of God and/or
the souls (but not the bodies) of the saved "wheat" who have been
regenerated by His "indwelling" Holy Spirit. To be clear, the
"Kingdom of God" is a SUBSET of the "Kingdom of Heaven" since
it only includes the saved "wheat", not the unsaved "tares".

Therefore, the Bible can use the phrases interchangeably when it focuses
only on the "wheat" within the Kingdom. When focused
only on the "wheat", the Bible can use "Kingdom of Heaven"
OR "Kingdom of God". And that is why we have several parallel passages
in the Bible that can (and do) interchange these two phrases.

-----------------------------------

All of this is BASED on the Biblical reality that JESUS specifically
NAMED separate-and-distinct "Kingdoms of Heaven" on earth.

In Matthew 22:2 Jesus specifically NAMED the Jewish
"Kingdom of Heaven" and in Matthew 21:43 Jesus specifically
NAMED the Jewish "Kingdom of God"... as it was transfered
from the Jews to the Christians.

In Matthew 13 (in 8 verses) Jesus specifically NAMED the
Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"

In Matthew 25:1 Jesus specifically NAMED the Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven"... which the church has always considered
to be PART of the Christian Kingdom but really only contained
the Last Saints who live during the Great Tribulation or the
REIGN of the Anti-Christ.

And in Matthew chapters 5 and 7 and 8 and 19 Jesus specifcally
NAMED the Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven".

-------

While the (1st) Pre-Flood "Kingdom of Heaven", which contained
all the saints from Adam to Noah, and the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom
and the (3rd) Christian Kingdom and the (4th) Great Tribulation
Kingdom all:
(1) were temporal Kingdoms and
(2) contained both saved and unsaved people

The (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of heaven" was not temporal and
contained ONLY the saved from EACH of the previous Kingdoms,
which is why we see [Mat 8:11] that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob
are part of the Eternal Kingdom when they (obviously) were not
part of the Christian Kingdom or Great Tribulation Kingdom.

-------

Just some "food for thought"...
BASED on what Jesus specifically NAMED in Scripture,
with the related verses cited above.

-------------

You are manipulating Scripture to support false teaching. The Kingdom of God is the same as the Kingdom of heaven

Dispensationalists attempt to differentiate between the biblical terms “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God.” They argue that these kingdoms differ in their character, focus and realisation. However, an elementary comparison between the two in the New Testament will show that “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God” are just similar expressions to describe the one same Kingdom.

The term “the kingdom of God” refers to the One from whom it originates, whereas, the term “the kingdom of heaven” describes the place where it is centred. Notwithstanding, they both unequivocally allude to the one glorious eternal kingdom and Almighty God who sovereignly reigns from heaven. The evidence to back up such a supposition is absolute, and can be supported by a wealth of proof in the Gospels. These terms being frequently used and interchanged in (1) the same reference, (2) similar references, and (3) identical references, to describe this Divine spiritual Kingdom.

1. The same passage

Matthew records Christ using both terms in the one passage when describing His Kingdom: “Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God” (19:23-24).

These two terms are here used in the same context to describe the same kingly realm. The subject of this reading is the difficulty that the rich have in entering the kingdom of heaven (the kingdom of God). Anyone trying to base a theology on the difference between the two synonymous terms is strongly rebutted by this clear reading.

2. Similar passages

Alluding to the simplicity of the faith, Christ made similar statements, whilst in different circumstances, to explain the same eternal kingdom. Once again, He interchanges the terms ‘the kingdom of God’ and ‘the kingdom of heaven’ to describe His everlasting spiritual Kingdom.

(a) In Matthew 18:1-4, Christ is seen rebuking the disciples who were foolishly debating who were the greatest among them. In verse 2, and in response to their dispute, we see Christ calling “a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them.”

The Master then said, “Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.”

In a similar passage in Mark 10:15, Christ refers to the kingdom whilst once again rebuking the disciples, only this time it was for trying to stop the little children coming unto Himself. Only, in this encounter, He employs the matching term ‘the kingdom of God’, saying, “Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.”

The circumstances may have been slightly different yet the message was still the same. Nowhere in Christ teaching is there the slightest licence to make any distinction between these terms. Again we find the kingdom of God to be synonymous with the kingdom of heaven!

(b) Christ, teaching on the parable of the sower declares, in Matthew 13:24-26, 30, “The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.” Christ concluded, “Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.”

In a similar, yet distinct passage, in Mark 4:25-29, Christ taught the disciples of the natural law of the harvest, saying, “he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath. And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground; And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how. For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear. But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.”

3. Parallel passages

This teaching is completely exposed by analysing, and comparing, the apostles record of the very same teaching on the very same occasion. There, the apostles testimony of the corresponding instances and same utterances of the Saviour are interchanged between the term “the kingdom of heaven” and the term “the kingdom of God.” Thus, clearly showing that the two terms are synonymous.

The following are some examples.

Example A

We see in different places that the kingdom is said to be “at hand.”

Matthew 4:12, 17 records, “Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee…From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Mark 1:14-15 records, “Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand.”

Again, the terms ‘kingdom of God’ and ‘kingdom of heaven’ are interchanged in these passages while describing the one spiritual kingdom.

Example B

Jesus said, in Matthew 11:12, “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven ‘suffereth violence’ (or biazo), and the violent take it by force.”

Jesus said, in Luke 16:16, “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man ‘presseth’ (or biazetai – or suffereth violence) into it.”

Example C

Matthew 10:5-14 records the disciples commission, “These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them…as ye go, preach, saying, the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.”

Luke 9:1-6 records, “Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.”

Example D

After expounding the parable of the sower, the twelve disciples asked Christ why He explained His teaching in parables. Matthew and Mark then record the Lord’s response.

Jesus said, in Matthew 13:11, “it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus said, in Mark 4:11, “Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God.”

Example E

Matthew’s account of the beatitudes in 5:3-6, records Jesus saying, “Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.”

Luke’s account of Christ’s sermon, in Luke 6:20-21, records, “Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.”

Example F

Jesus said, in Matthew 13:31, “the kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field.”

Jesus said, in Mark 4:30-31, “Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth.”

Example G

Jesus said, in Matthew 13:33, “the kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.”

Jesus said, in Luke 13:20-21, “Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.”

Example H

Whilst we have previously quoted similar incidents where Christ advanced the same teaching on the subject of children and the kingdom (proving how the two terms are interchangeable), the following quotes are made of the same occasion.

Jesus said in Matthew 19:14, “Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus said in Mark 10:14, “Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.”

Example I

Speaking of the future consummation of the Kingdom, Jesus said, in Matthew 8:11, “And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.”

Luke’s account, in chapter 13:28-29, records, “ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.”

CONCLUSION

It is plain to see from comparing these parallel accounts in the gospels that “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God” are the same. In these phrases, the word heaven is a metonym for God. A metonymy is a figure of speech in which one word or phrase is substituted for another with which it is closely associated.

 

[5thKingdom]

You are manipulating Scripture to support false teaching. The Kingdom of God is the same as the Kingdom of heaven

Dispensationalists attempt to differentiate between the biblical terms “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God.” They argue that these kingdoms differ in their character, focus and realisation. However, an elementary comparison between the two in the New Testament will show that “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God” are just similar expressions to describe the one same Kingdom.

The term “the kingdom of God” refers to the One from whom it originates, whereas, the term “the kingdom of heaven” describes the place where it is centred. Notwithstanding, they both unequivocally allude to the one glorious eternal kingdom and Almighty God who sovereignly reigns from heaven. The evidence to back up such a supposition is absolute, and can be supported by a wealth of proof in the Gospels. These terms being frequently used and interchanged in (1) the same reference, (2) similar references, and (3) identical references, to describe this Divine spiritual Kingdom.

1. The same passage

Matthew records Christ using both terms in the one passage when describing His Kingdom: “Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God” (19:23-24).

These two terms are here used in the same context to describe the same kingly realm. The subject of this reading is the difficulty that the rich have in entering the kingdom of heaven (the kingdom of God). Anyone trying to base a theology on the difference between the two synonymous terms is strongly rebutted by this clear reading.

2. Similar passages

Alluding to the simplicity of the faith, Christ made similar statements, whilst in different circumstances, to explain the same eternal kingdom. Once again, He interchanges the terms ‘the kingdom of God’ and ‘the kingdom of heaven’ to describe His everlasting spiritual Kingdom.

(a) In Matthew 18:1-4, Christ is seen rebuking the disciples who were foolishly debating who were the greatest among them. In verse 2, and in response to their dispute, we see Christ calling “a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them.”

The Master then said, “Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.”

In a similar passage in Mark 10:15, Christ refers to the kingdom whilst once again rebuking the disciples, only this time it was for trying to stop the little children coming unto Himself. Only, in this encounter, He employs the matching term ‘the kingdom of God’, saying, “Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.”

The circumstances may have been slightly different yet the message was still the same. Nowhere in Christ teaching is there the slightest licence to make any distinction between these terms. Again we find the kingdom of God to be synonymous with the kingdom of heaven!

(b) Christ, teaching on the parable of the sower declares, in Matthew 13:24-26, 30, “The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.” Christ concluded, “Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.”

In a similar, yet distinct passage, in Mark 4:25-29, Christ taught the disciples of the natural law of the harvest, saying, “he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath. And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground; And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how. For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear. But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.”

3. Parallel passages

This teaching is completely exposed by analysing, and comparing, the apostles record of the very same teaching on the very same occasion. There, the apostles testimony of the corresponding instances and same utterances of the Saviour are interchanged between the term “the kingdom of heaven” and the term “the kingdom of God.” Thus, clearly showing that the two terms are synonymous.

The following are some examples.

Example A

We see in different places that the kingdom is said to be “at hand.”

Matthew 4:12, 17 records, “Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee…From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Mark 1:14-15 records, “Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand.”

Again, the terms ‘kingdom of God’ and ‘kingdom of heaven’ are interchanged in these passages while describing the one spiritual kingdom.

Example B

Jesus said, in Matthew 11:12, “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven ‘suffereth violence’ (or biazo), and the violent take it by force.”

Jesus said, in Luke 16:16, “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man ‘presseth’ (or biazetai – or suffereth violence) into it.”

Example C

Matthew 10:5-14 records the disciples commission, “These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them…as ye go, preach, saying, the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.”

Luke 9:1-6 records, “Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.”

Example D

After expounding the parable of the sower, the twelve disciples asked Christ why He explained His teaching in parables. Matthew and Mark then record the Lord’s response.

Jesus said, in Matthew 13:11, “it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus said, in Mark 4:11, “Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God.”

Example E

Matthew’s account of the beatitudes in 5:3-6, records Jesus saying, “Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.”

Luke’s account of Christ’s sermon, in Luke 6:20-21, records, “Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.”

Example F

Jesus said, in Matthew 13:31, “the kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field.”

Jesus said, in Mark 4:30-31, “Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth.”

Example G

Jesus said, in Matthew 13:33, “the kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.”

Jesus said, in Luke 13:20-21, “Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.”

Example H

Whilst we have previously quoted similar incidents where Christ advanced the same teaching on the subject of children and the kingdom (proving how the two terms are interchangeable), the following quotes are made of the same occasion.

Jesus said in Matthew 19:14, “Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus said in Mark 10:14, “Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.”

Example I

Speaking of the future consummation of the Kingdom, Jesus said, in Matthew 8:11, “And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.”

Luke’s account, in chapter 13:28-29, records, “ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.”

CONCLUSION

It is plain to see from comparing these parallel accounts in the gospels that “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God” are the same. In these phrases, the word heaven is a metonym for God. A metonymy is a figure of speech in which one word or phrase is substituted for another with which it is closely associated.

-------------

You are manipulating Scripture to support false teaching. The Kingdom of God is the same as the Kingdom of heaven

First... if your position is that Scripture is being manipulated
then it is JESUS (not me) that is doing that manipulation.

It was JESUS (not me) that specifically NAMED the Jewish
"Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 22:2... tell me sir,
WHO is the CONTEXT of that passage (the Jews)

It was JESUS (not me) that specifically NAMED the Christian
"Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 13 (in 8 verses)... tell me
WHO is the CONTEXT of those passages (Christians only)

It was JESUS (not me) that specifically NAMED the
Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"... tell me sir,
WHO was the CONTEXT of those passages (the Last Saints)

So if you REJECT these "Kingdoms of Heaven" specifically
NAMED by Jesus then you are rejecting HIS WORDS (not mine)

------

Secondly... before you start talking about the DIFFERENCE
between the "Kingdom of Heaven" and "Kingdom of God"
please CAREFULLY read what I already told you below.

It makes NO SENSE for you to argue based on SOME
passages using the phrases interchangeably when I have
already EXPLAINED the reason that is possible.

-------------

The phrase "Kingdom of Heaven" is used thirty-three (33)
times in the Bible and every time the phrase represents the
many unsaved "tares" and/or the few saved "wheat",
associated with preaching the "Word of the Kingdom"
(the Gospel) during one of the FOUR KINGDOMS on earth...
or it represents ONLY the saved "wheat" harvested into
the (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven".

The four "Kingdoms of Heaven" are physical and temporal
Kingdoms... and there's a "harvest" of Saints at the end of each,
with the "Final Harvest" including only the "Wise Virgins"
living during the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"
[Mat 25:1]

--------

The phrase "Kingdom of God" is used seventy (70) times
in the Bible and every time it represents the Holy Spirit of God
and/or the souls (but not the bodies) of the saved "wheat"
who have been regenerated by His "indwelling" Holy Spirit.

To be clear, the "Kingdom of God" is a SUBSET of the
"Kingdom of Heaven" since it only includes the saved "wheat",
not the unsaved "tares".

Therefore, the Bible can use the phrases interchangeably when
it focuses only on the "wheat" within the Kingdom. When focused
only on the "wheat", the Bible can use "Kingdom of Heaven"
OR "Kingdom of God". And that is why we have several parallel passages in the Bible that can (and do) interchange these
two phrases.

-----------------------------------

Now... I will say this again so there is no confusion.
If you want to disagree with something written then
you need only to identify WHO is the CONTEXT of the
verses I cited.

To simply DENY what Jesus specifically NAMED is insufficient.

I realize this is NEW INFORMATION to you...
again... you need only identify WHO is the CONTEXT
of the verses cited to REFUTE what JESUS specifically said.

This is important... for you to DENY these passages
without identifying WHO was the CONTEXT of the passage
is meaningless - since that is you intentionally IGNORING
the passages cited.

This is not hard... just identify WHO is the CONTEXT of
the passages I cited... you will find it is (1) the Jews and
(2) the Christians and (3) the Great Tribulation Saints and
(4) the Eternal Kingdom.

You do not have to LIKE what the Bible teaches but you
cannot REFUTE what the Bible teaches by IGNORING
the verses cited. I hope you understand that reality.

...

 

[5thKingdom]

You are manipulating Scripture to support false teaching. The Kingdom of God is the same as the Kingdom of heaven

Dispensationalists attempt to differentiate between the biblical terms “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God.” They argue that these kingdoms differ in their character, focus and realisation. However, an elementary comparison between the two in the New Testament will show that “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God” are just similar expressions to describe the one same Kingdom.

The term “the kingdom of God” refers to the One from whom it originates, whereas, the term “the kingdom of heaven” describes the place where it is centred. Notwithstanding, they both unequivocally allude to the one glorious eternal kingdom and Almighty God who sovereignly reigns from heaven. The evidence to back up such a supposition is absolute, and can be supported by a wealth of proof in the Gospels. These terms being frequently used and interchanged in (1) the same reference, (2) similar references, and (3) identical references, to describe this Divine spiritual Kingdom.

1. The same passage

Matthew records Christ using both terms in the one passage when describing His Kingdom: “Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God” (19:23-24).

These two terms are here used in the same context to describe the same kingly realm. The subject of this reading is the difficulty that the rich have in entering the kingdom of heaven (the kingdom of God). Anyone trying to base a theology on the difference between the two synonymous terms is strongly rebutted by this clear reading.

2. Similar passages

Alluding to the simplicity of the faith, Christ made similar statements, whilst in different circumstances, to explain the same eternal kingdom. Once again, He interchanges the terms ‘the kingdom of God’ and ‘the kingdom of heaven’ to describe His everlasting spiritual Kingdom.

(a) In Matthew 18:1-4, Christ is seen rebuking the disciples who were foolishly debating who were the greatest among them. In verse 2, and in response to their dispute, we see Christ calling “a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them.”

The Master then said, “Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.”

In a similar passage in Mark 10:15, Christ refers to the kingdom whilst once again rebuking the disciples, only this time it was for trying to stop the little children coming unto Himself. Only, in this encounter, He employs the matching term ‘the kingdom of God’, saying, “Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.”

The circumstances may have been slightly different yet the message was still the same. Nowhere in Christ teaching is there the slightest licence to make any distinction between these terms. Again we find the kingdom of God to be synonymous with the kingdom of heaven!

(b) Christ, teaching on the parable of the sower declares, in Matthew 13:24-26, 30, “The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.” Christ concluded, “Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.”

In a similar, yet distinct passage, in Mark 4:25-29, Christ taught the disciples of the natural law of the harvest, saying, “he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath. And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground; And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how. For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear. But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.”

3. Parallel passages

This teaching is completely exposed by analysing, and comparing, the apostles record of the very same teaching on the very same occasion. There, the apostles testimony of the corresponding instances and same utterances of the Saviour are interchanged between the term “the kingdom of heaven” and the term “the kingdom of God.” Thus, clearly showing that the two terms are synonymous.

The following are some examples.

Example A

We see in different places that the kingdom is said to be “at hand.”

Matthew 4:12, 17 records, “Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee…From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Mark 1:14-15 records, “Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand.”

Again, the terms ‘kingdom of God’ and ‘kingdom of heaven’ are interchanged in these passages while describing the one spiritual kingdom.

Example B

Jesus said, in Matthew 11:12, “And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven ‘suffereth violence’ (or biazo), and the violent take it by force.”

Jesus said, in Luke 16:16, “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man ‘presseth’ (or biazetai – or suffereth violence) into it.”

Example C

Matthew 10:5-14 records the disciples commission, “These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them…as ye go, preach, saying, the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.”

Luke 9:1-6 records, “Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.”

Example D

After expounding the parable of the sower, the twelve disciples asked Christ why He explained His teaching in parables. Matthew and Mark then record the Lord’s response.

Jesus said, in Matthew 13:11, “it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus said, in Mark 4:11, “Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God.”

Example E

Matthew’s account of the beatitudes in 5:3-6, records Jesus saying, “Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.”

Luke’s account of Christ’s sermon, in Luke 6:20-21, records, “Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.”

Example F

Jesus said, in Matthew 13:31, “the kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field.”

Jesus said, in Mark 4:30-31, “Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth.”

Example G

Jesus said, in Matthew 13:33, “the kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.”

Jesus said, in Luke 13:20-21, “Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.”

Example H

Whilst we have previously quoted similar incidents where Christ advanced the same teaching on the subject of children and the kingdom (proving how the two terms are interchangeable), the following quotes are made of the same occasion.

Jesus said in Matthew 19:14, “Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”

Jesus said in Mark 10:14, “Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.”

Example I

Speaking of the future consummation of the Kingdom, Jesus said, in Matthew 8:11, “And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.”

Luke’s account, in chapter 13:28-29, records, “ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.”

CONCLUSION

It is plain to see from comparing these parallel accounts in the gospels that “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God” are the same. In these phrases, the word heaven is a metonym for God. A metonymy is a figure of speech in which one word or phrase is substituted for another with which it is closely associated.

It is plain to see from comparing these parallel accounts in the gospels that “the kingdom of heaven” and “the kingdom of God” are the same. In these phrases, the word heaven is a metonym for God. A metonymy is a figure of speech in which one word or phrase is substituted for another with which it is closely associated.

But I ALREADY TOLD YOU that the phrases can be used
interchangabely when talking ONLY about the saved...

Why would you write such a long response when you
are only showing what I have ALREADY SAID?

Before speaking... kindly READ the information
provided below (in RED) and try to REFUTE what
I said and not a strawman that you construct.

---------

The phrase "Kingdom of Heaven" is used thirty-three (33)
times in the Bible and every timethe phrase represents the
many unsaved "tares" and/or the few saved "wheat",
associated with preaching the "Word of the Kingdom"
(the Gospel) during one of the FOUR KINGDOMS on earth...
or it represents ONLY the saved "wheat" harvested into
the (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven".
-------------------------------------------------------------
The four "Kingdoms of Heaven" are physical and temporal
Kingdoms... and there's a "harvest" of Saints at the end of each,
with the "Final Harvest" including only the "Wise Virgins"
living during the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"
[Mat 25:1]
---------------------------------------------------------
The phrase "Kingdom of God" is used seventy (70) times
in the Bible and every time it represents the Holy Spirit of God
and/or the souls (but not the bodies) of the saved "wheat"
who have been regenerated by His "indwelling" Holy Spirit.
-----------------------
To be clear, the "Kingdom of God" is a SUBSET of the
"Kingdom of Heaven" since it only includes the saved "wheat",
not the unsaved "tares".
---------------------------------
Therefore, the Bible can use the phrases interchangeably
when it focuses only on the "wheat" within the Kingdom.
When focused only on the "wheat", the Bible can use
"Kingdom of Heaven" OR "Kingdom of God". And that
is why we have several parallel passages in the Bible that
can (and do) interchange these two phrases.
-----------------------------------

 

[shilohsfoal]

Adam was told he would die if he ate the fruit he was told not to eat. After the fall of Adam, he died. His spirit that God had breathed into him died. Thanks to Christ the human spirit is quickened by the Holy Spirit - the Spirit of God breathing life (continuously) into our bodies which are dead because of sin.

At death the body goes to the ground - "ashes to ashes, dust to dust" until the resurrection of the body. The soul, before the time of Christ, appeared in sheol/hades (which the scriptures speak of as being "under the earth" and where Jesus went and preached, preaching by the Holy Spirit, when He died).

It's also where Jonah says he went and he was calling out from there (either figuratively referring to an actual whale, or the whale is a figurative reference to sheol/hades).

Jesus' parable implies there were and are different "sections" in hades, separated by a chasm or by chasms (no one really knows - not the Rabbis and not the Christian theologians).

What we are explicitly told is that the spirit of man that died in Adam is quickened by the Holy Spirit of God through faith in Christ, and Paul states that to die is gain because when he died he would go to be with the Lord. If the soul of Lazarus was in Abraham's bosom then the revived spirit of man in Christ is found in Christ when we die.

Live with it (if you'll pardon the pun).

How do you know the spirit which God blew into Adam was not the holy spirit?I mean, your saying the spirit which came out of God died. What makes you think the spirit which came out of God died?

John 20:22 When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[DavidPT]

If that is the case, then no one in their right mind would be taking that "a thousand" to be meaning literally 1000 years. Only a prejudiced theology would force a literal meaning on a highly figurative passage in the most symbolic book in the Bible, especially when it is used continuously throughout the Word of God to represent a large amount or a long indefinite period of time.

Only Amils need the thousand years to not be a literal thousand years. Apparently there are also some Premils who do not take them to be a literal thousand years either. As to the latter, it doesn't actually affect Premil one way or the other if the thousand years are not literal. As to the former, it clearly affects Amil if the thousand years are meaning literal years, since Amil cannot even work if a literal thousand years are meant. Based on that alone, you would at least think some of these Premils who don't think a literal thousand years are meant would be better off doing everything they could to show that a literal thousand years are meant, therefore ending the endless debate between Premil and Amil in the process.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Your interpretation is then claiming that the 42 month reign of the beast in Revelation 13 is already fulfilled and in the past.

and I saw the souls of them----which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

Clearly, these are literally martyred during the 42 month reign of the beast, and that your interpretation is claiming that these very same martyrs, they are presently alive with Christ in heaven, even though the 42 month reign of the beast hasn't even happened yet. How can your interpretation possibly be correct if it is causing a contradiction in both Revelation 13 and Revelation 20:4?

The Beast was most likely Nero, though in a broader sense it's a reference to the oppressive imperial power of the emperors, seeing as the Apocalypse was likely written during the reign of Domitian (though also, possibly during the reign of Trajan). In the broadest sense the Beast represents any or all oppressive stately powers which come against the Church.

After Nero's death to a fatal wound to the head (specifically a stab wound to the neck), there arose a legend known as Nero Redivivus, that Nero would return. For St. John writing as an exile on Patmos to the seven churches in Asia Minor, he speaks of the Beast having suffered a fatal wound and coming back to life; a return of the beast to bring war against the Church.

Here is what the church historian Eusebius of Caesarea writes,

"Domitian, having shown great cruelty toward many, and having unjustly put to death no small number of well-born and notable men at Rome, and having without cause exiled and confiscated the property of a great many other illustrious men, finally became a successor of Nero in his hatred and enmity toward God. He was in fact the second that stirred up a persecution against us, although his father Vespasian had undertaken nothing prejudicial to us." - Church History, Book III, ch. 19

Modern scholars doubt Eusebius' claim, though it is known that under Trajan, Domitian's successor, persecution was renewed as can be seen in the exchange between Pliny the Younger and Trajan, as well as that it was under Trajan that St. Ignatius was dragged from Antioch to Rome to face his martyrdom.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[sovereigngrace]

Only Amils need the thousand years to not be a literal thousand years. Apparently there are also some Premils who do not take them to be a literal thousand years either. As to the latter, it doesn't actually affect Premil one way or the other if the thousand years are not literal. As to the former, it clearly affects Amil if the thousand years are meaning literal years, since Amil cannot even work if a literal thousand years are meant. Based on that alone, you would at least think some of these Premils who don't think a literal thousand years are meant would be better off doing everything they could to show that a literal thousand years are meant, therefore ending the endless debate between Premil and Amil in the process.

You are the first Premil that I have encountered that doesn't take Rev 20 literal. For the rest, it seems to be a fundamental of the faith. Honestly! It is a pretty faulty foundation that is unsupported by other Scripture.

Premil is simply extra-biblical. It has no corroboration. When Premils are challenged they habitually avoid the numerous climactic Scripture that exposes their theory and constantly cry: "what saith Zech 14 and Rev 20." When one asks for a comparison between these two chapters they take offence and complain. Amils on the other hand embrace the full gamut of Scripture which shows that sin, death, decay, Satan and the wicked are destroyed at the second coming.

 

[DavidPT]

The Beast was most likely Nero, though in a broader sense it's a reference to the oppressive imperial power of the emperors, seeing as the Apocalypse was likely written during the reign of Domitian (though also, possibly during the reign of Trajan). In the broadest sense the Beast represents any or all oppressive stately powers which come against the Church.

After Nero's death to a fatal wound to the head (specifically a stab wound to the neck), there arose a legend known as Nero Redivivus, that Nero would return. For St. John writing as an exile on Patmos to the seven churches in Asia Minor, he speaks of the Beast having suffered a fatal wound and coming back to life; a return of the beast to bring war against the Church.

Here is what the church historian Eusebius of Caesarea writes,

"Domitian, having shown great cruelty toward many, and having unjustly put to death no small number of well-born and notable men at Rome, and having without cause exiled and confiscated the property of a great many other illustrious men, finally became a successor of Nero in his hatred and enmity toward God. He was in fact the second that stirred up a persecution against us, although his father Vespasian had undertaken nothing prejudicial to us." - Church History, Book III, ch. 19

Modern scholars doubt Eusebius' claim, though it is known that under Trajan, Domitian's successor, persecution was renewed as can be seen in the exchange between Pliny the Younger and Trajan, as well as that it was under Trajan that St. Ignatius was dragged from Antioch to Rome to face his martyrdom.

-CryptoLutheran

Let's not forget, according to Revelation 13 the beast is not acting alone. There is also the 2nd beast that comes out of the earth that plays a major role in these events, that being the false prophet. If historians allege Nero was the beast, who do historians allege was the false prophet?

What does Revelation 13 claim the false prophet does? For one, it claims----he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

 

[DavidPT]

You are the first Premil that I have encountered that doesn't take Rev 20 literal.

I'm sure you remember Eric from that other board you and I am both members of. It was through him that I first became aware of a position such as Amil. I used to argue that the 2W in Revelation 11 are meaning 2 literal people who literally show up out of nowhere in the end of this age. Eventually, after debating things like that with Eric time and time again, I finally managed to admit to myself, I think Eric was right all along, that these 2W are symbolic, thus not meant to be taken literally after all.

There have been numerous times over the years where I almost switched to Amil. Usually what prevents me from doing that, in my mind, for example, every time a cardinal number is followed by years in the Bible, these years are interpreted as literal years. Obviously, in my mind anyway, that also has to apply to a thousand when it is followed by years. And even though in many regards Amil appears to make better sense than Premil, how can Amil even work, if according to the pattern throughout the Bible, a literal thousand years have to be meant, since that is the pattern when a cardinal number is followed by years?

And then there is Zechariah 14:16-19, a current thread of mine. If those verses are meaning post the 2nd coming, how can that possibly work with Amil since this would indicate it will be like that forever and ever, then? And then there is Revelation 20:4, the martyrs killed by the beast during the 42 month reign. How can that possibly work with Amil if they are already martyred by the beast during the 42 month reign before satan is even loosed from the pit?

 

[sovereigngrace]

I'm sure you remember Eric from that other board you and I am both members of. It was through him that I first became aware of a position such as Amil. I used to argue that the 2W in Revelation 11 are meaning 2 literal people who literally show up out of nowhere in the end of this age. Eventually, after debating things like that with Eric time and time again, I finally managed to admit to myself, I think Eric was right all along, that these 2W are symbolic, thus not meant to be taken literally after all.

There have been numerous times over the years where I almost switched to Amil. Usually what prevents me from doing that, in my mind, for example, every time a cardinal number is followed by years in the Bible, these years are interpreted as literal years. Obviously, in my mind anyway, that also has to apply to a thousand when it is followed by years. And even though in many regards Amils appears to make better sense than Premil, how can Amil even work, if according to the pattern throughout the Bible, a literal thousand years have to be meant, since that is the pattern when a cardinal number is followed by years?

And then there is Zechariah 14:16-19, a current thread of mine. If those verses are meaning post the 2nd coming, how can that possibly work with Amil since this would indicate it will be like that forever and ever, then? And then there is Revelation 20:4, the martyrs killed by the beast during the 42 month reign. How can that possibly work with Amil if they are already martyred by the beast during the 42 month reign before satan is even loosed from the pit?

These are good questions and ones that I asked myself back in 2000. I was writing a thesis in support of Premil, and I used some key objective hermeneutical principles that i felt were crucial to establishing which eschatological position was right. After applying them to my research, I reluctantly (after 6 months of much pain and questioning) abandoned Premil. I say so because I was in love with the doctrine rather than the explicit repeated truth of Scripture. What demolished my doctrine was the constant climactic detail attributed to the second coming. It doesn't matter whether you look at the resurrection or the judgment, it doesn't matter whether you look at the fate of the creature or creation, it doesn't matter whether you look at the righteous or the wicked, it doesn't matter whether you look at humans or angels, everything seems to be tied up when Jesus comes.

The second biggy was a severe lack of biblical corroboration for my opinion of Rev 20. The fact that Jesus, and the apostolic writers were silent of this supposed future era (the biggest outside of the NHNE) was massive for me. If it really was going to happen in the future, it would have been widely taught about. But it wasn't.

Here are 15 rules that I have implemented in my theological journey over the years.

1st rule: Have a good overall knowledge of scriptural truth.
2nd rule: Let the Bible speak for itself. The Word of God is the ultimate and final authority.
3rd rule: Pray for the Holy Spirit’s help in understanding God's truth. Eph 1:17: “That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints.”
4th rule: Do not add unto the scriptural text.
5th rule: Use Bible terms instead of man-made terms.
6th rule: Scripture is its own best interpreter; we must therefore support Scripture with Scripture. Explore the full gamut of Scripture on a matter. See what other similar Scripture says.
7th rule: Let clear and explicit Scripture interpret obscure and symbolic Scripture, not the other way around.
8th rule: He who alleges must prove! If you claim something as truth – prove it.
9th rule: When studying a given subject, it is always helpful to trace it back to its origin in Scripture. This is called: the law of first mention. This gives us an insight into its roots and development.
10th rule: Note the setting, genre and context of the truth/verse you are studying and establish what the Holy Spirit is actually saying in the overall passage. Context is crucial in biblical interpretation. We need to establish whether it is literal, symbolic or parabolic, and who, what and when it relates to. Is it speaking of the past, present or future? Is it principally speaking to the people receiving it or is it speaking prophetically of an approaching event? Is the sentence a command, a statement of fact or a question? We should always be sensitive to its setting, style of writing, and the respective subject under discussion.
11th rule: The New Testament is the fuller revelation. What is concealed in the Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament. We should interpret Scripture progressively. We all know that the Old Testament prophets looked through a glass darkly. They gave what was revealed to them. The fuller revelation came with Christ. What the Old Testament seers received was often veiled and incomplete. The New Testament is the fuller revelation and sheds light on the Old Testament. New revelation builds upon older revelation, never (at any stage) contradicting it. As Vern Poythress explains: “The significance of a type is not fully discernible until the time of fulfillment … In other words, one must compare later Scripture to earlier Scripture to understand everything.”
12th rule: Check out the practical outworking of the doctrine in Scripture. See how God’s people lived it out.
13th rule: What has this to do with Jesus? John 5:39: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
14th rule: In disputed texts, examine the usage of key words/phrase elsewhere in Scripture. This can be done by examining the meaning of these in the original language.
15th rule: While we are not led by Church tradition or bound by historic views of a given truth, we should carefully consider what the great Bible scholars over the years have gleaned from their studious in-depth findings.

 

[5thKingdom]

Let's not forget, according to Revelation 13 the beast is not acting alone. There is also the 2nd beast that comes out of the earth that plays a major role in these events, that being the false prophet. If historians allege Nero was the beast, who do historians allege was the false prophet?

What does Revelation 13 claim the false prophet does? For one, it claims----he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

The Great Tribulation (aka the Revelation Beasts)
is a period of two Woes and two Trumpets and
two Beasts... and two "Heads"... so God gives us
several different perspectives of the same EVENTS.

The first Woe/Beast/Trumpet/head was judgment
against the Last Saints (called wise virgins in Rev 25:1-13
.... just another perspective of the Great Trib/Rev Beast)

During the second Woe/Beast/Trumpet/head, God's Judgment
came against the Last "tares" (called the foolish virgins).

Judgement "begins with the House of God"...

-----------------------------------
The CONTEXT of 1 Peter 4:17
------------------------------------

For the time is come that Judgment must BEGIN at
the House of God [both the "wheat and Tares"]:
and if it [God's Judgment] FIRST begin with us
[begins with the saved "wheat"], what shall the end be
of them that obey not the Gospel of God [the unsaved "tares"]
18 And if the righteous [the saved "wheat"] scarcely be saved,
where shall the ungodly and the sinner [the unsaved "tares"]
appear?
-------------------------
The purpose of Daniel's Fourth "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]
was to (first) bring Judgment on the "Wise Virgins", the Last Saints.
This is shown in 1 Peter 4 as being both the "us" [in verse 17]
and then as "the righteous" [verse 18]. Then, after Judgment
on the Saints is finished, God separates the "wheat and tares"
and brings Judgment on the "Anti-Christ" and "Foolish Virgins"
(the Beast)... which are represented by "them that obey not
the Gospel of God" [in verse 17] and then by "the ungodly
and and the sinner" [in verse 18].
--------------------------
But here is the kicker:
The First Beast (the seventh "Head") is the SAME PERSON
as the Second Beast (the eighth "Head")
--------------------------
Rev_17:11
And the beast that was, [first Beast] and is not,
even he is the eighth, and is of the seven,
and goeth into perdition. [at the END of the Rev. Beast]
-----------------------------
The experiences of the "ten virgins" of Matthew 25:1-13
are the experiences of the "ten kings/horns" of Rev 17 and
the experiences of the "ten kings/horns" of Daniel 7 and the
experiences of the "ten kings" of Daniel 2... and we know
this ABSOLUTELY because (in each case) they are
the people living on earth when the Lord Returns.
---------------------------------
They are the experiences of the LAST "wheat and tares"
on earth before the Lord Returns... The Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1] is the same period
as the Revelation Beast(s) and the same period as Daniel's
Fourth Beast and the same period as the REIGN of the
Anti-Christ during Satan's "Little Season"... and the
same experiences of the "ten virgins" in Mat 25:1-13
-----------------------------------
These are the Bible Truths revealed by the Last Saints
during the "Season and Time" [Dan 7:11-12] AFTER
the END of the Fourth "Kingdom of Heaven" and BEFORE
the beginning of the (eternal) Third Woe. This is the period
AFTER the end of the Second Woe but BEFORE the start
of the (eternal) Third Woe [Rev 11:14].
-----------------------------------
This is the period AFTER the Beast is cast into the Lake
of Fire [Rev 19:20] and BEFORE Satan and the "Kingdoms
of Man" (physical/political kingdoms or governments)
JOIN THE BEAST in the Lake of Fire [Rev 20:10]
-------------------------------------
This is the period when the Last Saints are commanded
to "prophesy again" as the Seventh Trumpet
"begins to sound" [Rev 10:7-11]
-----------------------------------------
The LAST SIGN on earth before the Lord's Return is
the Last Saints (wise virgins of the Fourth Kingdom)
preaching NEW INFORMATION which remained "closed-up"
and "sealed" from all previous saints [Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10]
-----------------------------------------------------
BTW... Daniel 7:11-12 and the "Season and Time"
immediately destroys any interpretation that Daniel's
Four Beasts represent physical/political Kingdoms...
whether that be Babylon/Persia/Greece/Rome or
the European Union, or ANY physical/political empire.
-------------------------------------------------------

 

[DavidPT]

The Great Tribulation (aka the Revelation Beasts)
is a period of two Woes and two Trumpets and
two Beasts... and two "Heads"... so God gives us
several different perspectives of the same EVENTS.

The first Woe/Beast/Trumpet/head was judgment
against the Last Saints (called wise virgins in Rev 25:1-13
.... just another perspective of the Great Trib/Rev Beast)

During the second Woe/Beast/Trumpet/head, God's Judgment
came against the Last "tares" (called the foolish virgins).

Judgement "begins with the House of God"...

-----------------------------------
The CONTEXT of 1 Peter 4:17
------------------------------------

For the time is come that Judgment must BEGIN at
the House of God [both the "wheat and Tares"]:
and if it [God's Judgment] FIRST begin with us
[begins with the saved "wheat"], what shall the end be
of them that obey not the Gospel of God [the unsaved "tares"]
18 And if the righteous [the saved "wheat"] scarcely be saved,
where shall the ungodly and the sinner [the unsaved "tares"]
appear?
-------------------------
The purpose of Daniel's Fourth "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]
was to (first) bring Judgment on the "Wise Virgins", the Last Saints.
This is shown in 1 Peter 4 as being both the "us" [in verse 17]
and then as "the righteous" [verse 18]. Then, after Judgment
on the Saints is finished, God separates the "wheat and tares"
and brings Judgment on the "Anti-Christ" and "Foolish Virgins"
(the Beast)... which are represented by "them that obey not
the Gospel of God" [in verse 17] and then by "the ungodly
and and the sinner" [in verse 18].
--------------------------
But here is the kicker:
The First Beast (the seventh "Head") is the SAME PERSON
as the Second Beast (the eighth "Head")
--------------------------
Rev_17:11
And the beast that was, [first Beast] and is not,
even he is the eighth, and is of the seven,
and goeth into perdition. [at the END of the Rev. Beast]
-----------------------------
The experiences of the "ten virgins" of Matthew 25:1-13
are the experiences of the "ten kings/horns" of Rev 17 and
the experiences of the "ten kings/horns" of Daniel 7 and the
experiences of the "ten kings" of Daniel 2... and we know
this ABSOLUTELY because (in each case) they are
the people living on earth when the Lord Returns.
---------------------------------
They are the experiences of the LAST "wheat and tares"
on earth before the Lord Returns... The Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1] is the same period
as the Revelation Beast(s) and the same period as Daniel's
Fourth Beast and the same period as the REIGN of the
Anti-Christ during Satan's "Little Season"... and the
same experiences of the "ten virgins" in Mat 25:1-13
-----------------------------------
These are the Bible Truths revealed by the Last Saints
during the "Season and Time" [Dan 7:11-12] AFTER
the END of the Fourth "Kingdom of Heaven" and BEFORE
the beginning of the (eternal) Third Woe. This is the period
AFTER the end of the Second Woe but BEFORE the start
of the (eternal) Third Woe [Rev 11:14].
-----------------------------------
This is the period AFTER the Beast is cast into the Lake
of Fire [Rev 19:20] and BEFORE Satan and the "Kingdoms
of Man" (physical/political kingdoms or governments)
JOIN THE BEAST in the Lake of Fire [Rev 20:10]
-------------------------------------
This is the period when the Last Saints are commanded
to "prophesy again" as the Seventh Trumpet
"begins to sound" [Rev 10:7-11]
-----------------------------------------
The LAST SIGN on earth before the Lord's Return is
the Last Saints (wise virgins of the Fourth Kingdom)
preaching NEW INFORMATION which remained "closed-up"
and "sealed" from all previous saints [Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10]
-----------------------------------------------------
BTW... Daniel 7:11-12 and the "Season and Time"
immediately destroys any interpretation that Daniel's
Four Beasts represent physical/political Kingdoms...
whether that be Babylon/Persia/Greece/Rome or
the European Union, or ANY physical/political empire.
-------------------------------------------------------

This is rather insightful. Some of it I'm actually somewhat on the same page with you already. Some of it never even crossed my mind before, yet I can still somewhat see the logic in it now that you have brought these things up. Interesting post, to say the least.

 

[5thKingdom]

I'm sure you remember Eric from that other board you and I am both members of. It was through him that I first became aware of a position such as Amil. I used to argue that the 2W in Revelation 11 are meaning 2 literal people who literally show up out of nowhere in the end of this age. Eventually, after debating things like that with Eric time and time again, I finally managed to admit to myself, I think Eric was right all along, that these 2W are symbolic, thus not meant to be taken literally after all.

There have been numerous times over the years where I almost switched to Amil. Usually what prevents me from doing that, in my mind, for example, every time a cardinal number is followed by years in the Bible, these years are interpreted as literal years. Obviously, in my mind anyway, that also has to apply to a thousand when it is followed by years. And even though in many regards Amil appears to make better sense than Premil, how can Amil even work, if according to the pattern throughout the Bible, a literal thousand years have to be meant, since that is the pattern when a cardinal number is followed by years?

And then there is Zechariah 14:16-19, a current thread of mine. If those verses are meaning post the 2nd coming, how can that possibly work with Amil since this would indicate it will be like that forever and ever, then? And then there is Revelation 20:4, the martyrs killed by the beast during the 42 month reign. How can that possibly work with Amil if they are already martyred by the beast during the 42 month reign before satan is even loosed from the pit?

 

[5thKingdom]

This is rather insightful. Some of it I'm actually somewhat on the same page with you already. Some of it never even crossed my mind before, yet I can still somewhat see the logic in it now that you have brought these things up. Interesting post, to say the least.

That is just the TIP of the Iceberg.
It is nice to find people who are not intimidated
with the information. I plan on staying on this thread
for awhile. Maybe I will be able to contribute more Info...
or answer any questions you have.

/

 

[5thKingdom]

This is rather insightful. Some of it I'm actually somewhat on the same page with you already. Some of it never even crossed my mind before, yet I can still somewhat see the logic in it now that you have brought these things up. Interesting post, to say the least.

----


Are you aware that Jesus specifically NAMED
four separate and distinct "Kingdoms of Heaven"
on earth?

In Mat 22:2 Jesus specifically NAMED the Jewish
"Kingdom of Heaven".

In Mat 13 (in 8 verses) Jesus specifically NAMES
the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven".

In Mat 25:1 Jesus specifically NAMES the
Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"

Now, I realize this is NEW INFORMATION to most
but please TEST this by seeing who the CONTEXT
of each of these passages represents...
WHO is the subject of the passage?

In Matthew 22:2 it is the Jewish Kingdom
In Matthew 13 it is the Christian Kingdom
In Matthew 25:1-13 it's the Great Tribulation Kingdom

And, of course, Jesus specifically NAMES the
Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew chapters
5 and 7 and 8 and 19.

While the previous "Kingdoms of Heaven" were
(1) temporal
(2) contained BOTH saved and unsaved

The (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" is not temporal
and contains saints from EACH of the previous Kingdoms.
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are included [Mat 8:11] when
they were NOT included in the Christian Kingdom or the
Great Tribulation Kingdom.

For those who have not studied this issue carefully
there is a tendency to think there is no difference
between the "Kingdoms of Heaven" and the
one (1) "Kingdom of God".

The difference is explained below.

--------------------------------------------------------
The phrase "Kingdom of Heaven" is used thirty-three (33)
times in the Bible and every time the phrase represents
the many unsaved "tares" and/or the few saved "wheat",
associated with preaching the "Word of the Kingdom"
(the Gospel) during one of the FOUR KINGDOMS on earth...
or it represents ONLY the saved "wheat" harvested into
the (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven".
-------------------------------------------------------------
The four "Kingdoms of Heaven" are physical and temporal
Kingdoms... and there's a "harvest" of Saints at the end of
each, with the "Final Harvest" including only the "Wise Virgins"
living during the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"
[Mat 25:1]
---------------------------------------------------------
The phrase "Kingdom of God" is used seventy (70) times
in the Bible and every time it represents the Holy Spirit of God
and/or the souls (but not the bodies) of the saved "wheat"
who have been regenerated by His "indwelling" Holy Spirit.
To be clear, the "Kingdom of God" is a SUBSET of
the "Kingdom of Heaven" since it only includes the saved
"wheat", not the unsaved "tares".
---------------------------------
Therefore, the Bible can use the phrases interchangeably
when it focuses only on the "wheat" within the Kingdom.
When focused only on the "wheat", the Bible can use
"Kingdom of Heaven" OR "Kingdom of God". And that
is why we have several parallel passages in the Bible
that can (and do) interchange these two phrases.
-----------------------------------

 

[5thKingdom]

How do you know the spirit which God blew into Adam was not the holy spirit?I mean, your saying the spirit which came out of God died. What makes you think the spirit which came out of God died?

John 20:22 When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

--------

The Gospel starts with creation but, after that, the Gospel
starts with the RESULT of the "original sin". That Result
was that NOT only Adam spiritually died... but also, all of
his offspring would be BORN spiritually DEAD. Which is
why we need to be "born again" and have our souls
(but not out bodies) translated from DEATH to LIFE.

This IS the "First Resurrection".
The First Resurrection gives life to our dead souls.
The Second Resurrection gives life to our dead bodies.

This is all a major part of the Gospel.
If you need I can send you some verses that teach
men are DEAD before they are regenerated.

But, I bet if you think about it for a while you will
realize that you already knew all this.

/

 

[5thKingdom]

And then there is Revelation 20:4, the martyrs killed by the beast during the 42 month reign. How can that possibly work with Amil if they are already martyred by the beast during the 42 month reign before satan is even loosed from the pit?

I think you will find this fascinating...

The 42 months (3.5 years) are the SAME EVENT
as the 3.5 "times" and the 3.5 "days" and the
3.5 "watches of the night"... and they all are
related to Daniel's "Abomination of Desolation".

Not only that... there are DOZENS of other
passages talking about the same event.

Daniel's Abomination is a HUGE EVENT.
It is mentioned in BOTH the OT and NT.
It is the thing to "see" before His Return.
We are told we "shall see" it happen.

So it's wonderful to be able to see the event
from the perspective of DOZENS of passages.
It was one of the biggest insights we have had
after about 50 years of serious Bible study.

You can see more details here:
https://www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-8

BTW... the information on that page has
already been TESTED by some of the most
esteemed theologians teaching in some of the
most prestigious seminaries in America.
And NONE of them were able to find even
ONE VERSE of Scripture that contradicted
anything said. You can see a partial list of
these "experts" on the Recipient's Page.

/

 

[Zao is life]

It is truly hard to take the Premil portrayal of the new earth serious. Premil presents a new earth and a future kingdom filled with feigned worship from a kingdom full of phonies. If it is not spontaneous and sincere then it is a religious circus. Premil has Jesus hoodwinked thinking He has global submission, when in fact it is all forced and pretend. You would imagine that the Son of God, the king of glory would have some type of inkling of these millennial deceivers. So much for deception being lifted! In the Premil scheme you have Christ deceived by these phony religious devotees travelling to Jerusalem every yr to act out their forced worship or else you have Him willingly presiding over a prolonged sham. Neither of these lines up with Scripture.

In the Premil paradigm, we have the amazing spectacle of the massed ranks of the perfected saints sitting in the bleachers watching the feigned worship of the millennial wicked mortals coupled with the pointless slaughter of numerous innocent animals by the religious Jews with the reintroduction of the Judaic ceremonial sacrifices. This can only be described as an unprecedented unadulterated religious farce.

It is beyond credible reality and biblical authority to suggest that these millennial unregenerate mortals have the ability to abide the presence of the glorified Christ for over a thousand years never mind resist His persuasive overtures for a thousand years as our Saviour sits resplendent in all His eternal unveiled glory

These millennial phonies inherit a new earth supposedly ruled by Christ and the saints in righteousness with a rod of iron. They are confronted at every turn with the myriads of glorified redeemed that have populated the earth in their perfect bodies and are walking proof of the ongoing reality and truth of the reigning Christ yet these millennial rebels choose to walk in their rebellion.

These millennial mortals must qualify to be the most belligerent, stiff-necked, hard-nosed, stubborn, obstinate company of humans ever to grace this earth. They are way more intransigent than the Pharisees that only had 3 ½ years of resisting the person and ministry in his mortal body. For 1,000 years they refuse to receive the glorified Christ sitting in all His eternal majesty. How could they resist Him? How could they deny His authenticity?

As for the poor lambs, goats and calves that have been lulled into a false sense of peace in this kingdom of Aquarius fellowshipping with leopards, bears and lions, they should be extremely vigilant and very nervous, looking over their backs as often as they can at the sound of every truck, because they will soon be dragged off to the Zadokic abattoir to be butchered in order to cleanse the sin of Israel’s iniquity because the blood of Christ was not enough to meet that great need.

These millennial charlatans change in a twinkling of an eye when Satan is released at the end. They are obviously agents of Satan that have overtaken the earth and are simply waiting for their master to lead them into battle in the final end-time war against righteousness and truth. Their allegiance is clear. Their sinful corrupt natures (like ours) came at birth not when Satan raises his ugly head. The millennium is infested with all the same blight of corruption as we endure now - death, sin and wickedness. So much for the Premil boast that these millennial half-breeds will learn war no more??? What are they fighting with? Water pistols and water balloons?

As for your false hope of the removal of the bondage of corruption (namely the end of sin, death and decay), the Premil millennium is more of the same: sweat, death, and decay continue unabated and actually prospers.

This is whole scene is fanciful and unthinkable.

LOL. Were it not for all the things I would be ashamed of, I would be laughing when Christ returns, watching you have to eat all your words.

You're quite upset about all this, lol "Premil presents a new earth and a future kingdom filled with feigned worship from a kingdom full of phonies." Your words betray the fact that deep down you don't have enough confidence in what you believe. And you only quote scriptures that don't prove your beliefs at all, while ignoring all scriptures that prove your beliefs wrong, and the scriptures you do quote, you misinterpret because of the things you ignore.

Self-indoctrination bolstered by the erroneous interpretation of the church which still blinds many but not all churches and Christians.

 

[Zao is life]

The Gospel starts with creation but, after that, the Gospel
starts with the RESULT of the "original sin". That Result
was that NOT only Adam spiritually died... but also, all of
his offspring would be BORN spiritually DEAD. Which is
why we need to be "born again" and have our souls
(but not out bodies) translated from DEATH to LIFE.

This IS the "First Resurrection".
The First Resurrection gives life to our dead souls.
The Second Resurrection gives life to our dead bodies.

This is all a major part of the Gospel.
If you need I can send you some verses that teach
men are DEAD before they are regenerated.

But, I bet if you think about it for a while you will
realize that you already knew all this.
/

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruit of those who slept. For since death is through man, the resurrection of the dead also is through a Man. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;"

I realize that you insist that the cart comes before the horse, but 1 Corinthians 15 confirms the Lord's Revelation of the first resurrection to take place when He returns.

But according to your cart (which you insist must remain firmly in place before the horse), it's occurred already.

"..then is the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God, even the Father;

.. when He makes to cease all rule and all authority and power. for it is right for Him to reign until He has put all the enemies under His feet. The last enemy made to cease is death. For He put all things under His feet. But when He says that all things have been put under His feet, it is plain that it excepts Him who has put all things under Him. But when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subject to Him who has subjected things to Him, so that God may be all things in all."

The Revelation mentions two bodily resurrections of humans - the first being those who were beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and who refused the mark of the beast. The last being the resurrection of all humans when death and hades deliver up the dead in them.

The first resurrection is the bodily resurrection of those who are Christ's at His coming that is still to take place.

You can keep the cart before the horse if you like. But when Jesus returns you'll just be tossing your belief into the trash-heap of erroneous Christian theology, along with all the others who will likewise do the same.