The first resurection

[sovereigngrace]

Yall should be ashamed of yourselves trying to convince someone that you was beheaded and resurrected. Everyone knows the resurrection hasn't happened yet.

Why do you avoid multiple Scripture on this thread that forbids your doctrine? Why do you use Scripture as a weapon to insult people? Why do you avoid simple questions that expose what you have been taught?

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

The Greek word for "first" (as in first resurrection) is protos. It is a contracted superlative meaning foremost (in time, place, order and/or importance). So which is the "first" (or protos) resurrection - Christ's or the resurrection that occurs at the second coming? This is a pretty simply question.

Which is the foremost resurrection in time?
Which is the foremost resurrection in place?
Which is the foremost resurrection in order?
Which is the foremost resurrection in importance?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Thanks for the answer. Maybe one of these people on this board who claim they've been resurrected will let me know how long it takes to be resurrected after you get beheaded. It's like they really want me to believe them but they can't convince me this verse is talking about them.

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

I don't think anyone will answer you. Sorry.
Be blessed.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Ah, so His testament of Christ meant nothing to Herod? The calling out of his sin to repentance? It is all about the Messiah in the end.

Herod didn't care if John the Baptist was testifying anything about Jesus. The Baptist wasn't to sure about Jesus.Remember he sent his disciples to ask if Someone would come after Jesus or if he really was Christ.
But Herold had John killed because he would give anything for a striper to dance for him, and he gave her John's head.

 

[shilohsfoal]

I don't think anyone will answer you. Sorry.
Be blessed.

I don't think they can.
They havnt been resurrected.

Have a nice evening.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Herod didn't care if John the Baptist was testifying anything about Jesus. The Baptist wasn't to sure about Jesus.Remember he sent his disciples to ask if Someone would come after Jesus or if he really was Christ.
But Herold had John killed because he would give anything for a striper to dance for him, and he gave her John's head.

Sounds like you are going down the wrong path on this one. I am positively sure you are incorrect on this one. John the Baptist knew exactly who Jesus Christ of Nazareth was.
Be blessed

 

[shilohsfoal]

Why do you avoid multiple Scripture on this thread that forbids your doctrine? Why do you use Scripture as a weapon to insult people? Why do you avoid simple questions that expose what you have been taught?

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

The Greek word for "first" (as in first resurrection) is protos. It is a contracted superlative meaning foremost (in time, place, order and/or importance). So which is the "first" (or protos) resurrection - Christ's or the resurrection that occurs at the second coming? This is a pretty simply question.

Which is the foremost resurrection in time?
Which is the foremost resurrection in place?
Which is the foremost resurrection in order?
Which is the foremost resurrection in importance?

This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Sounds like you are going down the wrong path on this one. I am positively sure you are incorrect on this one. John the Baptist knew exactly who Jesus Christ of Nazareth was.
Be blessed

It would have been good for John if he had alittle more faith in Jesus and had lived long enough to have been baptised by Jesus but it never happened.
Luke 7:20 When the men came to Jesus, they said, "John the Baptist sent us to ask, 'Are You the One who was to come, or should we look for someone else?'"
If he knew he would not hzve sent them to ask.

 

[sovereigngrace]

This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.

Those who have conquered death through Christ's great victory. Jesus said to John in Revelation 1:18: "Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys (or authority) of hell and of death.”

Christ secured the complete dominion over Satan, death, hell, sin and every enemy at the cross. He took these crucial keys of authority over death and hell through His sinless life, His atoning death and His glorious resurrection. Christ not only defeated hell and death but acquired “the keys of hell and of death” (Revelation 1:18), triumphing over the prince of darkness. Christ became a curse for the penitent, therefore bearing his curse.

Colossians 2:15 tells us that “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.”

This text tells us that Christ stripped “principalities and powers” of their previous power through His death, burial and resurrection and “made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” This clearly refers to dark demonic realm. Barnes adds: “The terms used in this verse are all military, and the idea is, that Christ has completely subdued our enemies by his death. A complete victory was achieved by his death, so that every thing is now in subjection to him, and we have nothing to fear.”

 

[sovereigngrace]

This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Why do you avoid multiple Scripture on this thread that forbids your doctrine? Why do you use Scripture as a weapon to insult people? Why do you avoid simple questions that expose what you have been taught?

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

The Greek word for "first" (as in first resurrection) is protos. It is a contracted superlative meaning foremost (in time, place, order and/or importance). So which is the "first" (or protos) resurrection - Christ's or the resurrection that occurs at the second coming? This is a pretty simply question.

Which is the foremost resurrection in time?
Which is the foremost resurrection in place?
Which is the foremost resurrection in order?
Which is the foremost resurrection in importance?

 

[shilohsfoal]

Why do you avoid multiple Scripture on this thread that forbids your doctrine? Why do you use Scripture as a weapon to insult people? Why do you avoid simple questions that expose what you have been taught?

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

The Greek word for "first" (as in first resurrection) is protos. It is a contracted superlative meaning foremost (in time, place, order and/or importance). So which is the "first" (or protos) resurrection - Christ's or the resurrection that occurs at the second coming? This is a pretty simply question.

Which is the foremost resurrection in time?
Which is the foremost resurrection in place?
Which is the foremost resurrection in order?
Which is the foremost resurrection in importance?

2 Timothy 2:18 who have deviated from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already occurred, and they undermine the faith of some.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

It would have been good for John if he had alittle more faith in Jesus and had lived long enough to have been baptised by Jesus but it never happened.
Luke 7:20 When the men came to Jesus, they said, "John the Baptist sent us to ask, 'Are You the One who was to come, or should we look for someone else?'"
If he knew he would not hzve sent them to ask.

We should compare scripture with scirpture. That being said, in these verses John was clearly given sign that Jesus Christ of Nazareth was the one to come. There was a purpose for the messengers, to give them proof and those around them. In other words, this whole interaction was for the benefit of all so that Jesus would increase and John would decrease. Simply put, he passed the baton.

16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

25 Then there arose a dispute between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purification. 26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and all are coming to Him!”27 John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven. 28 You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, ‘I am not the Christ,’ but, ‘I have been sent before Him.’ 29 He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice. Therefore this joy of mine is fulfilled. 30He must increase, but I must decrease. 31He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32 And what He has seen and heard, that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony. 33 He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true. 34For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure. 35The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. 36He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

 

[DavidPT]

Not sure what you are asking about. I am talking about this verse:

"I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers.
But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months."
Rev 11:1-2

What ever temple is meant in Revelation 11, the true worshipers of God wouldn't be meaning the unbelieving Jews who were still sacrificing animals in the temple until the temple was destroyed. There is no way in a billion years that the temple meant in Revelation 11, that this is meaning the 2nd temple before it was destroyed.


Even if the book of Revelation was written prior to 70 AD, what exactly would that prove? Would that prove that the temple meant in Revelation 11, that it's meaning the 2nd temple in the first century? No.

 

[shilohsfoal]

We should compare scripture with scirpture. That being said, in these verses John was clearly given sign that Jesus Christ of Nazareth was the one to come. There was a purpose for the messengers, to give them proof and those around them. In other words, this whole interaction was for the benefit of all so that Jesus would increase and John would decrease. Simply put, he passed the baton.

16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

25 Then there arose a dispute between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purification. 26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and all are coming to Him!”27 John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven. 28 You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, ‘I am not the Christ,’ but, ‘I have been sent before Him.’ 29 He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice. Therefore this joy of mine is fulfilled. 30He must increase, but I must decrease. 31He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32 And what He has seen and heard, that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony. 33 He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true. 34For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure. 35The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. 36He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Yes I've read that.
But for some reason the Baptist began to dought.
Luke 7:20 When the men came to Jesus, they said, "John the Baptist sent us to ask, 'Are You the One who was to come, or should we look for someone else?'"
If he knew, he would not need to ask.

Regardless, the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John the Baptist.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I read it.So how long was it before your conversion that you were beheaded for preaching about Jesus?

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

The holy martyrs St. John sees in his vision are alive with Christ right now, see Revelation 6:9. They will receive their bodily resurrection at Christ's Parousia on the Last Day, as Christ Himself says in John 6:40, as Paul explains in 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.

The martyrs are alive with Christ in heaven, on account of their new birth from God, for Christ says, "I am the resurrection and the life, whoever believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die." (John 11:25-26). So that even in bodily death we are not dead, but alive; alive in Christ and also promised our bodily resurrection at His return (Philippians 3:20-21).

Revelation 20:4 is descriptive, not prescriptive. It does not say that one must be martyred in order to be made alive with Christ; it says that the martyrs are alive with Christ. Theirs is the life we have all received as grace through faith, even as we read in Colossians 2:12-13, Romans 6:3-4, 2 Corinthians 5:17, John 5:24, etc.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Zao is life]

The historic Christian understanding is that the first resurrection mentioned in the Apocalypse is understood to refer to our conversion and baptism, see Romans 6:4. Christ says He is the Resurrection and the Life, and whoever believes in Him shall live, He says also that in His Father's house are many rooms and He goes to make a place for us that where He is we shall be also. Through Baptism we have been born again to new life by the Spirit (John 3:3-5), and so even in bodily death we have life in and with Christ--for indeed, "He is not God of the dead, but of the living" (Mark 12:27), so that even while absent from the body we are present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8). And so those who were slain (and, indeed, we ourselves also) shall be found with the Lord (Revelation 6:9). The "first resurrection" is our "spiritual" resurrection, that is our baptism (Colossians 2:12-13), and so even in death we are alive with Christ, reigning with Him until the day all things are subject to Him, He returns, the dead are raised, and He hands all things over to the Father in order that God be all in all (1 Corinthians 15:20-28).

-CryptoLutheran

Historic Christian understanding stands to be corrected in certain respects when the Lord returns. All Christians stand to be corrected in some respects but not necessarily all for the same things.

I understood Shiloh'sfoal's question: Who beheaded you before you were converted so that you could take part in the first resurrection? (because the Revelation clearly states it is those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and those who refused the mark of the beast that took part in the first resurrection).

Historic Christian understanding will interpret all scripture speaking about the resurrection in light of the A-millennial understanding held by historic Christian understanding. I've heard some A-millennialists here even going so far as to accuse Pre-millennialists of belonging to a cult.

Scripture does not teach that all things have been placed under Christ's feet yet (Hebrews 2:8: Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him.

But now (Greek: nun: "Of present time") we see not yet all things put under him.

Satan, we are told, will be destroyed in the lake of fire 1,000 years after the beast and false prophet.

The beast = the kingdoms of this world in rebellion against Christ with Satan as the power behind them:

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, `My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, my officers had struggled that I might not be delivered up to Jews; but now (Greek: nun: "Of present time) my kingdom is not from hence.'

A king cannot rule unhindered over his kingdom until all adversaries are either destroyed or bound.

Some of the above facts support both the A-millennial and Pre-millennial understanding - but there is a lot more scripture regarding Christ and all nations being subdued to Him before He hands the Kingdom back to God the Father, in both the Old Testament (Psalms and prophets) and the New Testament - and there is nothing in the text of the New Testament and in Revelation 12 to even hint that Satan, once defeated by the cross and cast out of heaven, was bound at that point - indeed, he roams now and deceives now and will give the beast to be destroyed by Christ at His return, its kingdom, power and great authority.

Nevertheless, I stand to be corrected, you stand to be corrected (maybe), and Sholoh'sfoal stands to be corrected (maybe), and the historic Christian understanding of certain things stands to be corrected when Christ returns...

.. and in the meanwhile we'll be going round in circles without anyone convincing another any differently.

 

[Zao is life]

Does God lie?
Genesis 3:19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your bread, until you return to the ground--because out of it were you taken. For dust you are, and to dust you shall return."

No God does not lie, but humans do:.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 and the God of the peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your whole spirit, and soul, and body, be preserved unblameably in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ;

The Holy Spirit does not sanctify the Holy Spirit and preserve Himself blameless. He has no need to. The above verse is referring to the spirit of man which was given to Adam when God breathed on him and he became a living soul. It's the same spirit of man given by God which is quickened by the Holy Spirit and given faith in Christ, and it's the same spirit of man that is in Christ who is in heaven, and goes to be with Christ if the person died in Christ - just as Lazarus was found in Abraham's bosom when he died.

 

[Zao is life]

Sounds like you are going down the wrong path on this one. I am positively sure you are incorrect on this one. John the Baptist knew exactly who Jesus Christ of Nazareth was.
Be blessed

At first.. but..

Matthew 13:20-21 But that which was sown on the stony places is this: he who hears the Word and immediately receives it with joy. But he has no root in himself, and is temporary. For when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, he immediately becomes offended (Greek: skandalizo)

Matthew 24:9-10 Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and will kill you. And you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake. And then many will be offended (Greek: skandlizo), and will betray one another, and will hate one another.

Matthew 11:2-6.11 But when John heard in the prison of the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples.

And they said to Him, Are You he who should come, or do we look for another? Jesus answered and said to them, Go and tell John again those things which you hear and see: the blind receive their sight, and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear; the dead are raised, and the poor have the gospel proclaimed to them.And blessed is he, whoever shall not be offended (Greek: skandalizo) in Me.

Truly I say to you, Among those who have been born of women there has not risen a greater one than John the Baptist. But the least in the kingdom of Heaven is greater than he.

John's question which he sent his disciples to deliver to Jesus and Jesus' reply imply that John became offended by the fact that the Lord did not deliver him from the tribulation he was enduring.

And because no prophet was greater than John the Baptist, it should make the rest of us shiver and shudder - because the least in the Kingdom of heaven who is not offended by tribulation on account of Christ or on account of righteousness (as in John the Baptist's case) God nevertheless considers greater than John the Baptist.

 

[shilohsfoal]

No God does not lie, but humans do:.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 and the God of the peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your whole spirit, and soul, and body, be preserved unblameably in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ;

The Holy Spirit does not sanctify the Holy Spirit and preserve Himself blameless. He has no need to. The above verse is referring to the spirit of man which was given to Adam when God breathed on him and he became a living soul. It's the same spirit of man given by God which is quickened by the Holy Spirit and given faith in Christ, and it's the same spirit of man that is in Christ who is in heaven, and goes to be with Christ if the person died in Christ - just as Lazarus was found in Abraham's bosom when he died.

Yet God told man he would return to the ground from where he came. Did man return to the ground from where he came or did he ascend into the heavens?

 

[Zao is life]

Yet God told man he would return to the ground from where he came. Did man return to the ground from where he came or did he ascend into the heavens?

Adam was told he would die if he ate the fruit he was told not to eat. After the fall of Adam, he died. His spirit that God had breathed into him died. Thanks to Christ the human spirit is quickened by the Holy Spirit - the Spirit of God breathing life (continuously) into our bodies which are dead because of sin.

At death the body goes to the ground - "ashes to ashes, dust to dust" until the resurrection of the body. The soul, before the time of Christ, appeared in sheol/hades (which the scriptures speak of as being "under the earth" and where Jesus went and preached, preaching by the Holy Spirit, when He died).

It's also where Jonah says he went and he was calling out from there (either figuratively referring to an actual whale, or the whale is a figurative reference to sheol/hades).

Jesus' parable implies there were and are different "sections" in hades, separated by a chasm or by chasms (no one really knows - not the Rabbis and not the Christian theologians).

What we are explicitly told is that the spirit of man that died in Adam is quickened by the Holy Spirit of God through faith in Christ, and Paul states that to die is gain because when he died he would go to be with the Lord. If the soul of Lazarus was in Abraham's bosom then the revived spirit of man in Christ is found in Christ when we die.

Live with it (if you'll pardon the pun).

 

[BABerean2]

Yet God told man he would return to the ground from where he came. Did man return to the ground from where he came or did he ascend into the heavens?

Are you trying to make the "Soul Sleep" doctrine work?

If you are, it is destroyed by the verse below?


Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


The only way to make the "Soul Sleep" doctrine work is by ignoring the verse above.

.