The fifth seal great tribulation martyrs

[Douggg]

So this crown of victory does not fit him now, does it? This crown given at the first seal is a victor's crown, specifying ultimate victory according to the commentators.

Jesus does not carry a bow.

He carries a sickle in his hand Revelation 14:14, and a sword in his mouth Revelation 19:21. But no bow.

 

[iamlamad]

Jesus does not carry a bow.

He carries a sickle in his hand Revelation 14:14, and a sword in his mouth Revelation 19:21. But no bow.

Who ever said anything about Jesus except as the one OPENING the seals. Do you ever read posts?

Once again, the first seal is the CHURCH with the GOSPEL. Any other theory will be proven wrong.

 

[Douggg]

Who ever said anything about Jesus except as the one OPENING the seals. Do you ever read posts?

Once again, the first seal is the CHURCH with the GOSPEL. Any other theory will be proven wrong.

Yes, I read posts. And I respond with what the bible indicates. The issue is over who the first rider is. And his significance.

And are you reading the what you write? The bible doesn't say what the seal is, the physical seal on the book, it seems to indicate a leather or leather like strap.

2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

 

[iamlamad]

Yes, I read posts. And I respond with what the bible indicates. The issue is over who the first rider is. And his significance.

And are you reading the what you write? The bible doesn't say what the seal is, the physical seal on the book, it seems to indicate a leather or leather like strap.

2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

I guess we really don't need to know what was used as a seal. What we should know is everything God has told us about the book and the seals.
We are going to disagree. I personally think WAX was used as seals back then.

 

[Douggg]

I guess we really don't need to know what was used as a seal. What we should know is everything God has told us about the book and the seals.
We are going to disagree. I personally think WAX was used as seals back then.

Well, I thought about wax, but unloose seemed to me less likely because I think a person would peel the seal, if it were wax. I could be wrong. The point is the way you write - is imprecise at times. And you chastise me for not reading posts. I run in to imprecise writing in posts all the time, not just yours in this particular example.

 

[iamlamad]

Well, I thought about wax, but unloose seemed to me less likely because I think a person would peel the seal, if it were wax. I could be wrong. The point is the way you write - is imprecise at times. And you chastise me for not reading posts. I run in to imprecise writing in posts all the time, not just yours in this particular example.

No one can be precise when the text is not precise UNLESS one is taught by the Holy Spirit something not in the scripture.

An example for me would be Rev. 11:1-2. I asked God about that, and I did not hear words, but I knew it was about the man of sin coming to Jerusalem. he has to get TO Jerusalem to enter the temple there. It is not written, yet I know what is behind the text.

I don't know why John choose to use the word "open." I can guess that once a wax seal is broken, then A PART of the scroll can be unrolled so what is written can then be read. "Open" then would fit.

 

[Douggg]

No one can be precise when the text is not precise UNLESS one is taught by the Holy Spirit something not in the scripture.

When it comes to "precise', I am talking about your (and everyone else's including me) communication skills with others.

 

[iamlamad]

When it comes to "precise', I am talking about your (and everyone else's including me) communication skills with others.

Well, one can only do the best one can do. Can we agree on that?

 

[Douggg]

Well, one can only do the best one can do. Can we agree on that?

Yes.

 

[iamlamad]

Yes.

Hallelujah! Brothers finally agree!

 

[BABerean2]

It is a broadly based statement, that covers the rapture and over a thousand years later the great white throne judgment.

What you have said above is not found in the text.

Any unbiased witness reading Revelation 11:15-18 would have to say the time of the judgment of the dead is found right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.

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[Douggg]

What you have said above is not found in the text.

Any unbiased witness reading Revelation 11:15-18 would have to say the time of the judgment of the dead is found right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.

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It is the 7th angel - not 7th trumpet. The 7th angel is not the last angel found in Revelation.

You are extremely biased because everything you write and the videos you post promote the new covenant theology faith group's point of view. So don't claim to be unbiased.

My chart is correct as to when the 7th angel begins to sound his trumpet that God's plan should be finished. It is not saying immediately after the 7th angel sounds his trumpet, which is how you are interpreting Revelation 11:15. In the days of - is the second half of the seven years.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[BABerean2]

It is the 7th angel - not 7th trumpet. The 7th angel is not the last angel found in Revelation.

You are extremely biased because everything you write and the videos you post promote the new covenant theology faith group's point of view. So don't claim to be unbiased.

My chart is correct as to when the 7th angel begins to sound his trumpet that God's plan should be finished. It is not saying immediately after the 7th angel sounds his trumpet, which is how you are interpreting Revelation 11:15. In the days of - is the second half of the seven years.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Can you show an 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation?


Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart, and much of the confusion that goes with it.

If anyone can show me the New Covenant is not crucial to understanding the New Testament, I will be glad to be corrected.

If the time of the judgment of the dead is not right after the sounding of the seventh angel in Revelation 11:15-18, then John made a mistake in recording the event.

However, John did not make a mistake because the book is not in chronological order. Instead, it is a series of overlapping visions given to John.

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[iamlamad]

If the time of the judgment of the dead is not right after the sounding of the seventh angel in Revelation 11:15-18, then John made a mistake in recording the event.

However, John did not make a mistake because the book is not in chronological order. Instead, it is a series of overlapping visions given to John.

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You made two errors:
1: You did not do a good job of exegesis in 11:15-18. You failed to recognize and understand that the 24 elders were prophesying - foretelling FUTURE Events. You will find judging the dead in chapter 20. What happens at the 7th trumpet is that property (earth) exchanges hands.

2. It is only your wrong opinion that the book is not in chronological order. Sorry, no overlaps.

Axiom on Revelation: ANY theory that must rearrange Revelation to fit - will be proven wrong.

 

[Douggg]

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart, and much of the confusion that goes with it.

Who does God defend in the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39 ?

 

[shilohsfoal]

Can you show an 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation?


Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart, and much of the confusion that goes with it.

If anyone can show me the New Covenant is not crucial to understanding the New Testament, I will be glad to be corrected.

If the time of the judgment of the dead is not right after the sounding of the seventh angel in Revelation 11:15-18, then John made a mistake in recording the event.

However, John did not make a mistake because the book is not in chronological order. Instead, it is a series of overlapping visions given to John.

.

John mentions two resurrection in revelation.
The second takes place about 1000 years after the seventh trump.
Most people don't attend the seventh day sabbath.

 

[BABerean2]

John mentions two resurrection in revelation.
The second takes place about 1000 years after the seventh trump.
Most people don't attend the seventh day sabbath.

John also wrote about two resurrections in John chapter 5.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

What would you call it when a person is passed from death unto life?


Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

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[BABerean2]

Who does God defend in the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39 ?

The Gog/Magog battle is the battle of Armageddon, as proven by the article in the link below.
However, the author's conclusion has some problems, based on his own article.

Gog of Magog - Here a little, there a little - Prophecy

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[BABerean2]

You made two errors:
1: You did not do a good job of exegesis in 11:15-18. You failed to recognize and understand that the 24 elders were prophesying - foretelling FUTURE Events. You will find judging the dead in chapter 20. What happens at the 7th trumpet is that property (earth) exchanges hands.

2. It is only your wrong opinion that the book is not in chronological order. Sorry, no overlaps.

Axiom on Revelation: ANY theory that must rearrange Revelation to fit - will be proven wrong.

The text below does not say what you are claiming.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


Christ returning as a thief at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16 proves the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

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[shilohsfoal]

John also wrote about two resurrections in John chapter 5.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

What would you call it when a person is passed from death unto life?


Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

.

To answer your question. John did not call it a resurrection so I wouldn't either.

The first resurrection John speaks of in Revelation says they were killed because they were testifying of Christ like Peter or Paul were killed.

Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

What do you called it when someone is killed for preaching the gospel of Christ?