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The Father, Son, Holy Spirit = One

Discussion in 'Paterology, Christology & Pneumatology' started by Holycanaan, Mar 4, 2002.

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  1. Holycanaan

    Holycanaan New Member

    84
    +0
    Someone does not believe that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit ARE ONLY ONE GOD!

    Below are scriptures saying that ALL three are ONE.
    .
    JOHN 5:23 HONOR THE SON AND THE FATHER (KVJ)

    ............GOD....................... THE SON
    SERVE GOD...JOS 24:24..................COL 3:24

    ............ THE FATHER IS ........... JESUS
    ...............SAID TO BE...............IS SAID TO BE
    LORD...........EX 6:2...................HEB 1:5-10
    I AM GOD......ISA 45:22.................JOHN 20:28
    I AM (YHWH)...EX 3:14...................JOHN 8:58
    MIGHTY GOD....ISA 10:21,JER 32:1........ISA 9:6
    THE ALMIGHTY ...........................REV 1:8
    (JESUS)
    KING OF KINGS .................1 TIM 6:15/REV 19:13-16
    AND LORD OF LORDS

    I AM THE ......ISA 43:11...................JOHN 4:42
    LORD AND
    BESIDE ME
    THERE IS NO SAVIOR

    OUR GREAT GOD AND........................TITUS 3:13
    SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST:

    NO OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN.............ACT 4:12
    THE LORD IS......PS 23:1...............JOHN 10:11
    MY SHEPHERED
    GOD IS LORD AND..PS 18:311............ COR 10:4
    ROCK
    ALPHA AND.......REV 21:6-7.............REV 22:13-16,
    OMEGA
    .................................... REV 1:8

    I AM THE...ISA 44:6, 43:10/48:12......REV 1:17-18, 2:8
    FIRST
    AND THE LAST
    AND BESIDE ME
    THERE IS NO GOD
    NEITHER SHALL
    THERE BE AFTER ME

    *GOD AND JESUS...DEUT 32:41 ..............COR 10:4
    ARE THE ROCK NOT ROCKS

    GOD MADE .....GEN 2:2
    THE SABBATH
    FOR HIMSELF
    JESUS .................................MAT 12:8 MK 2:28
    IS LORD OF THE SABBATH


    ............FATHER......SON................HOLY SPIRIT
    Called..Phil 1:2...John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9....Acts 5:3-4
    GOD
    Resurrects.1 Thess. 1:10..John 2:19, 10:17..Rom. 8:11
    Indwells...2 Cor. 6:16....Col. 1:27.........John 14:17

    Life giver.Gen. 2:7...John 1:3; 5:21....2 Cor. 3:6,8
    CREATOR ...ISA 64:8;44:24...JOHN 1:3;COL ...JOB 33:4

    IN ZEC 12:1-10 ...JEHOVAH IS TALKING THROUGHOUT THIS CHAPTER AND
    IN 1:10 HE SAYS "LOOK UPON ME WHOM THEY HAVE PIERCED. NOT ONLY THAT BUT HE IS SAYING THAT HE WILL DESTROY JERUSALEM. IF YOU READ REVELATIONS IT IS JESUS WHO WILL DESTROY JERUSALEM.

    ISA 40:3 JESUS IS CALLED LORD (YAHWEH) AND GOD (ELOHIM)

    SPIRIT
    HEB 1:8... GOD THE FATHER CALLS JESUS "GOD" AND IS A
    QUOTE FROM PSALM 45:6
    NOTE: HE CALLED HIM "GOD", NOT "A GOD" NOR ONE OF THE GODS.

    MAT 12:31 .....BUT THE BLASPHEME AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST SHALL NEVER BE FORGIVEN.

    ... I SUGGEST THAT YOU FIND OUT WHY!

    NOTE: MOST SPIRITS IN THE BIBLE DO NOT HAVE PERSONAL NAMES.
    THE SPIRT OF GOD IS HOLY...AND IS KNOWN AS THE "HOLY SPIRIT". IN MARK
    5:9 JESUS ASKS THE MAN THAT WAS UNDER THE POWER OF AN UNCLEAN SPIRIT
    WHAT IS YOUR NAME? THE UNCLEAN SPIRIT ANSWERED.....MY NAME IS
    "LEGION" BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY OF US. ONE SINGLE WORD "LEGION"
    DESCRIBES THE QUANTATIVE OF THEM AND
    ARE IDENTIFIED BY THEIR CHARACTER...UNCLEAN, WICKED ..ETC

    BY THE SAME WAY THE HOLY SPIRIT IS IDENTIFIED BY WHAT HE IS "HOLY". HERE IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF SPIRITS THAT SPEAKS IF THIS UNCLEAN SPIRIT CAN SPEAK, WHY CAN'T THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD? ACT 19:15


    There are many, many more verses to show that The Father~The Son~The Holy Spirit are ONE!
     
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  2. AngelAmidala

    AngelAmidala Legend

    +617
    Methodist
    Single
    Since you brought this up, I thought I would share something I got out of a discussion in class.

    Most people think of The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as 3 separate entities....1 + 1 + 1 + = 3.

    But, that's not the case. 1 x 1 x 1 = 1. :)

    *shrugs* Just thought I would share.
     
  3. Wave

    Wave member

    114
    +0
    Christian
    yeah! that's right guys, our God is Father, Son and Spirit, still He isn't 3, He's ONE!:)
    Bless you all!
     
  4. niwde

    niwde Member

    256
    +1
    yes
    3 in 1 like instant coffee and shampoo
    the mystery of the trinity
    we can never understand it unless we see God face to face
    only then we will become as knowlegeble as Einstein or
    maybe greater
     
  5. Tyler

    Tyler Member

    182
    +0
    Holycanaan, wonderfully put!
     
  6. Ioustinos

    Ioustinos Veteran

    +148
    Eastern Orthodox
    Private
    US-Libertarian
    This might be a bad illustration but here goes:

    Water is H2O right?

    Well water can take on various forms. Let me clarify


    Snow is water.
    Water is water.
    Ice is water.

    All three are water but in different forms.

    Get the point? :scratch:
     
  7. TRUTH

    TRUTH Prove All things! 1 Thes 5:21

    64
    +0
    That was me guys - that doesn't believe in the trinity! Aren't you glad I came forth to stir the pot?!?!?

    'Trinity' is not a biblical word pitch it!

    The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit, it is His essence and power that He uses to interact with us and by which He dwells in us - If we repent and are baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, it is God dwelling in us. The Holy SPirit does not have a will of it's own - it is the spirit of God the Father and Jesus Christ.

    Bad analogy but here goes - you are made of flesh - God of spirit - your flesh doesn't live or move or do anything on it's own. If you are in a coma or dead your flesh doesn't move. Your arm is like God's spirit - your mind tells it to move and do things for you and cary out your will but it doesn't have a will of it's own - yet my brain and flesh are one being.

    I know this is an extremely unpopular belief - if you disagree that's fine with me I don't want to argue with anyone - I would love to talk about it with someone that is like minded but I'm not interested battling it out with those of you that are convicted otherwise.
     
  8. Holycanaan

    Holycanaan New Member

    84
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    ~~Truth~~

    As you have stated your analogy was indeed a very bad one. Primarily, because we humans are made with three different components, body, soul, and spirit. As opposed to other animals, who only have body and soul. As you have stated we do have the Spirit of God. Something must happen to water in order to be changed into steam or ice. However, The Spirit of God NEVER changes, Jesus NEVER changes nor God the Father NEVER changes.

    I will refer you to a verse in the Bible---1John 5:7 For there are three that bare record in heaven, The Father, The Word, and The Holy Spirit: and these three are one. And there are three that bare witness in earth, The Spirit, and the Water, and The Blood: and these three are one.

    Modern Bibles do not have this verse. However, it is in the Old Latin text. In addition to that there are Greek Minuscules Manuscripts 88 (12th century,) 629 (14th century,) and 635 (11th century.) That do have this verse.

    I have to ask you a question that is really bothering me. If you are a Christian, how come you do not believe in the Trinity?

    PS--You must be aware that in Genesis, many times where you see the English word God, that in the Hebrew it is Elohim, which is in the plural. If it was a singular word, like God, then it would be El. Which indicates that there are more than one person in the Word, Elohim. ;)
     
  9. Tyler

    Tyler Member

    182
    +0
    Holycanaan another great post. One point to make though, I just bought a NKJV bible that has 1John5:7,8 that states exactly what you quoted. There is no denying the Holy trinity from a scriptural viewpoint!

    Tyler
     
  10. TRUTH

    TRUTH Prove All things! 1 Thes 5:21

    64
    +0
    Alright - lest start with 1 John 5:7,8 For there are three that bear witness "in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth:" the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

    Look in your margin, it says: between 'in heaven' and 'on earth' is not found in ANY Greek manuscripts before the sixteenth century. :( so scrap it, read it again

    1 John 5:7,8 For there are three that bear witness, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.

    There is not enough left to say that the Holy Spirit is it's own personality. Nowhere in the bible does it say that there are "three" members of the Godhead. There are two personalities in the plural Godhead called "God" [430. 'elohiym, el-o-heem'; plur] Their Holy Spirit is what God is made of, their power and essense. God the Father and the Son have their own distinct personalities and will's - 'thy will be done', 'the will of My Father in heaven', 'never the less, not My will but Yours be done' Gods Holy Spirit is not it's own person with it's own will - only that of God Himself.

    Notice 2 John 1:9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have 'God'. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has 'both' the Father and the Son.

    If there were three COEQUAL members of 'God' what a insult that verse would be.

    Some of the most complelling evidence is just that of history itself! When you learn of the carnal men that sat around the table for many decades debating all forms of popular philosphy deciding how to explain 'God and His Spirit' and what to call it? Oh lets barrow the popular pagan beliefs of the three-in-one god and hence call it by a totally unbiblical word implying 3 - trinity - and that will go nicely with the other things we have created to satisfy the pagan converts like christmas and easter!

    What is so obviously void from modern christianity is the knowledge that satan has decieved the whole world - he has twisted EVERY SINGLE truth to some degree or another over the centuries to get people off track. This is just another one of them.

    When one has the Holy Spirit it is Christ dwelling in them by and through HIS [Holy] Spirit. :)
     
  11. Holycanaan

    Holycanaan New Member

    84
    +0
    Truth,

    Yesterday, I gave you an answer concerning the Trinity with 1John 5:7.

    You stated that the Trinity did not exist because it is not in the Bible. I have in my library the Qur’an,(Koran), NWT, THE BOOK OF MORMON, NASV, NRSV, NIV, THE LIVING BIBLE,THE ROMAN CATHOLIC BIBLE, 21ST CENTURY KING JAMES, THE SEPTUAGINT WITH APOCRYPHA GREEK-ENGLISH, NKJV, SPANISH REINA-VALERA, GREEK LANGUAGE underlined by Stephens of 1550, Elzevir 1624 and my favorite KJV. I have not been able to fine the word or words Bible or Holy Bible other than the covers of some of them, inside Never! So, I don’t think the Holy Bible exists. Don’t you agree? Take the covers off and no one will be able to tell what kind of book it is. I also have the book that the Greeks use (and they claim it to be The Holy Bible) in mainland Greece. Lo’ and behold the words “Holy Bible” are not on the front cover or any other place.

    You, further stated that God’s Holy Spirit is God’s essence and power basically a force. Then in your book (there is no holy bible), your god’s holy spirit is an “IT”. You are correct in stating that the Holy Spirit can not act on His own will. However, the angels too, can not act on their own will, either. They must have authority from God to do anything. They don’t even have the authority to fight the devil without the will of God or his authority. Does that mean that the angles are nothing more than a force? As a matter of fact, there used to be an angle by the name of Lucifer that tried to do his own thing.

    Ignatius knew some of the twelve apostles personally. And he believed in the Trinity. The Pe****ta manuscripts go back all the way to 200AD. It conforms with Byzantine and bears testimony to the KJV.
    Tertullian who lived between 155-220AD coined the term.

    I lived in the island of Crete, Greece for two and half years. While there I learned and saw the very first laws of democracy carved in a hugh stone. I wish I had written those down. This stone was or is located in the ruins of Gortyna (450BC). Athens as you know, gave life to democracy. However, in the stone that I mentioned, the word “democracy” is not written anywhere. Does that mean that democracy does not exist?
    And another example of where the light of democracy was beginning to shine is in the “Hammurabi’s Code of Law” 1780BC. There is not one word that indicates democracy! Read it you will learn things from it. So, being that the word democracy does not appear in those laws it means that that democracy did not exist even to those ancient Greeks.

    However, when I read those laws, democracy hits me right in the face.

    My God’s Holy Spirit is always referred to as Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost, He or Him and even “I“ when He speaks of Himself. My God’s Holy Spirit can:
    SPEAKS ACTS 13:2
    HEARS JOHN 16:13
    TEACHES JOHN 14:26
    COUNSELS JOHN 14:16-17
    KNOWS FUTURE ACTS 21:11
    CAN BE LIED TO ACTS 5:3-4.…..can an it be lied to?
    GRIEVED ROM 8:27
    LOVES ROM 15:30
    FORBIDS ACTS 16:6
    TESTED HEB 10:16
    There are many more things that the Holy Spirit of my God can do. Maybe yours can’t.

    I have never known of any force that can do that. Do you?

    I wish that my computer would type the real Greek Language instead of the phonetics.

    1John 5:7-8
    7 For <hoti> there are <eisi> three <treis> that bear record <martureo> in <en> heaven <ouranos>, the Father <pater>, the Word <logos>, and <kai> the Holy <hagios> Ghost <pneuma>: and <kai> these <houtos> three <treis> are <eisi> one <heis>.
    8 And <kai> there are <eisi> three <treis> that bear witness <martureo> in <en> earth <ge>, the Spirit <pneuma>, and <kai> the water <hudor>, and <kai> the blood <haima>: and <kai> these three <treis> agree <eisi> in <eis> one <heis>.

    I would like to point out to you to be very careful that you do not blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.

    You quoted me 2John 1:9
    9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.


    I will quote you Mark 3:29
    Mr 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of
    eternal damnation: (These are Jesus' Words)


    It seems to me that Armstrong is your mentor.
    The following is a quote from “THE KINGDOM OF THE CULTS” page 325 by Walter Martin.
    “QUOTE”
    The twenty-first chapter of the Book of Acts pictures, the Spirit instructing the prophet, Agabus, to speak: “Thus says the Holy Spirit, Shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that own his belt, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles” (verse 11).
    Thus Luke reveals that the third person of the Trinity has the capacity to think, command and prophesy. This certainly does not correspond to Mr. Armstrong’s caricature of the Spirit as an “it.” For even an elementary knowledge of psychology reveals that an “it” is devoid of personality and cannot speak, command or prophesy!
    “UNQUOTE”

    I suggest that you buy the book “THE KINGDOM OF THE CULTS” by Walter Martin” it might just open your eyes.


    The following diagram was taken from “Darkness to Light” web site by Gary Zeolla http://www.dtl.org/trinity/misc/diagram.htmPlease click into this web site for it shows a diagram that helps to explain the Trinity in a way that really does help.



    I hope you all can understand the above. I tried and tried to copy and paste a diagram I had but it just would not go in. If you read the above 1,2,3's and go around in a circle reading first the is nots and then go around again reading the is's in a circle, you will get what I am trying to say.
     
  12. TRUTH

    TRUTH Prove All things! 1 Thes 5:21

    64
    +0
    Sorry to have gotten you so twisted Phyllis. We probably will not see eye to eye on this subject.

    No worries though, God has 'opened my eyes' to see the false christianity that exists today thanks to satan. When you are called these things will be very clear.
     
  13. TorahsDisciple

    TorahsDisciple I Come To Serve

    86
    +0
    This statement does not exist anywhere in the entire Bible. In fact, neither does the "Holy Spirit". The Bible clearly calls is the HOLY GHOST.

    As I have said in another post, the trinity/triune doctrine is not Biblical. It denies G_D and makes an idol of HIS SON.
    Jesus proclaime that HE had a G_D (John 20:17,21; Revelation 3:12 and many many other places). In several verses the Bible clearly demonstrates that G_D, JESUS, and the HOLY GHOST are three individuals and not the same "person". In Matthew 12:31-32 make it clear the distinction between CHRIST and the HOLY GHOST. This is again made clear in the following verse:

    The trinity/triune doctrine is a false teaching not based upon the word of G_D. May those who have held it be enlightened and forsake this doctrine of men.
     
  14. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

    +218
    Atheist
    Private
    1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"

    What is so hard to comprehend about 1Tim 2:5? One God.... one mediator.....
    Who is the mediator? The man, Christ Jesus! and now for the 64 dollor question? Is God the mediator to himself? Or is Christ Jesus the mediator between God (where scripture says there is one God) and man?
    example: My father and I.... Let's say my father is out of town and you wanted me to ask him a question for you about a business proposition and the only way for you to able to find out any information would be through me, his son? Should I go on any further with this? Get the simple picture? Am I my father? Is my father me? I am the only mediator between my one and only father who I am one with. I could say that I and my father are one... that doesn't mean I and my father are the same person. Don't get the last part confused with God as a person.

    If you believe the scripture is true, then you must subordinate all other sources to second place! The simple reading of the scriptures reveals that the Trinity is nowhere to be found in scripture but only in man's imaginations and speculations.
     
  15. Messenger

    Messenger Simplicity of Life

    +37
    Christian
    Amen Franklin! I think the trinity and other doctrines are being defended far more than the Bible. They are being held above the Bible. I believe nothing should be added to or taken from the good Book and I believe these man-madeup doctrines are trying to reword and take from and add to the teachings of the Bible. Love and God Bless.
    To God be the Glory. I would rather be condemned by man for not believing in a madeup doctrine than God.
     
  16. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

    +165
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    _____You quoted one verse. Does your Bible only have the one verse? My Bible has 31,173 verses, any interpretation of any verse cannot contradict nor be contradicted by any other verse. Your quote of one verse ignores a lot of Bible, John 1:1, 14, 1 John 5:7, Philip 2:6, John 20:28, to name only a few. The problem with your example is you and your father ain’t God! You are trying to prove something about God by comparing it to your own physical limitations. Here’s another verse to read.

    Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
    9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

    _____Does God have the same physical, mental, spiritual, etc. limitations that you and your father have? Or are His ways and thoughts higher than you could possible imagine?
    1 John 57 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
    8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

    _____Defending the Trinity is defending the Bible. If you “believe nothing should be added to or taken from the good Book” as you claim then why don’t you add in those other 31,100 +/- verses you have taken away, and harmonize them with the one or two proof texts you quote.

    Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    _____Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against His church. So throughout all ages there must be a record of that church. Where is the historical record of your church Mess. and Frank? I have presented historical evidence, dating from the first century, for my beliefs. Where is your evidence?
     
  17. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +1
    How about this my friend: A Labrador is ONE, a Terrier is ONE and a Pitbull is ONE but they are all ONE dog. Or AngelAmidala is ONE, LouisBooth is ONE and HolyCanaan is ONE but they are all ONE MAN.

    Just thought I would share.

    Ed
     
  18. OldShepherd

    OldShepherd Zaqunraah

    +165
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
    9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.


    _____And of course the finite, limited in time and space, fallible, three dogs and three people you mentioned have all the characteristics of God and therefore whatever physical and temporal limitations apply to them must be applied to the infinite, infallible, unlimited, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent God. A dog or a person can only exist in one place at one time so according to your example God is also limited in space and time.
    _____Do you have any responses that are half way reasonable or logical?
     
  19. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +1
     
  20. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +4
    Christian
    That's good ! God has imprinted the Trinity on lot of stuff, like man being a body, soul and spirit.

    Family= Man Woman Child

    Location= Land Sea Air

    Races= Caucasian Negroid Oriental

    Time= Past Present Future

    There are many more, Julie
     
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