The Father, Son, Holy Spirit = One

[franklin]

Originally posted by OldShepherd

_____You quoted one verse. Does your Bible only have the one verse? My Bible has 31,173 verses, any interpretation of any verse cannot contradict nor be contradicted by any other verse. Your quote of one verse ignores a lot of Bible, John 1:1, 14, 1 John 5:7, Philip 2:6, John 20:28, to name only a few. The problem with your example is you and your father ain’t God! You are trying to prove something about God by comparing it to your own physical limitations.

Shep ole boy, hiyadoin? Thank you for taking all that time to count all the verses in the Bible.... that must have taken you a while! Your absolutely correct the Bible doesn't contradict itself, I'm glad we agree on that! On that note, that is all the more reason to reject the Trinity theory altogether! When you let scripture speak for itself and you believe it to be the truth, you will have no other option but to subordinate all other sources to second place! I told this to someone else in this forum and I will pass it on to you also, why don't you take those passages you quoted and give them to a five year old to read and see what they tell you? Jesus Himself spoke about how little children have great faith, sometimes we have to become as a little child when reading His words. Your clinging onto a doctrine that was created by men that is nowhere to found in scripture. Just read some of edopre's posts, they make a lot of sence and you might learn a lot from him.

 

[LouisBooth]

*sigh* I just don't see how ya'll can just cut parts out of your bible where it clearly says Jesus is God. I like my bible intact and without holes..thanks though.

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
*sigh* I just don't see how ya'll can just cut parts out of your bible where it clearly says Jesus is God. I like my bible intact and without holes..thanks though.

Except for Isaiah 9:6 and Heb. 1:8 which are not accurate translations, where else can we CLEARLY read that Jesus is God?

Isn't it possible that it is ONLY your mind that "SEES" these "CLEAR" passages that say Jesus is God? Isn't that SIMILAR to someone talking to an UNSEEN being in the middle of a busy street, OBLIVIOUS to everyone around him?

I'm sure you have SEEN these kind of people and you know what they are, don't you?

Ed

 

[Messenger]

Is Jesus Jehovah?
Is Jehovah Jesus?

 

[LouisBooth]

Ed, like I said, I've dealth with you for the better part of a year. You don't want to accept God's word, so I've shaken the dust off my feet. Jesus is God, I know that, Trinity is Who God is. that is the truth, pure and simple. You'll find out when you die. Only then will you accept the truth.

 

[Messenger]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
Ed, like I said, I've dealth with you for the better part of a year. You don't want to accept God's word, so I've shaken the dust off my feet. Jesus is God, I know that, Trinity is Who God is. that is the truth, pure and simple. You'll find out when you die. Only then will you accept the truth.

I see you are again stating your walking away from Ed but I'll believe that when I see it. I have been around and seen the two of you go round and round. I enjoy learning between the two of you and trying to sort out the truth. I wish that you wouldn't state we have holes in our Bibles and all the other outragious jiberish....If you know trinity is so prove it to us. I'm looking for the truth not to win or lose a debate with man but to learn truth according to God and the Bible not man-made up truth. I'm still open....A friend gave me the verse

Isaiah9:6
For to us a child isborn, to us a son is given: and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting father, Prince of Peace."

What is this speaking of is it stating that it is okay to call Jesus "Mighty God"?

I asked earlier....

Is Jahovah Jesus and Is Jesus Jahovah?

Please lets get to the truth! I'd rather learn I'm wrong than continue to be wrong but I'd rather be right and have you believe I'm wrong than to be wrong and have you believe I'm right....there that probably confused you...Sorry.

One minute of truth is worth more than an eternity in lies.

Love and God Bless.

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by Messenger

Please lets get to the truth! I'd rather learn I'm wrong than continue to be wrong but I'd rather be right and have you believe I'm wrong than to be wrong and have you believe I'm right....there that probably confused you...Sorry.

One minute of truth is worth more than an eternity in lies.

Well said my friend! I guess that was what I had in mind when I made that GIANT leap FROM being a Baptist TO being an IGLESIA NI CRISTO!

I wish there were more people who have the SAME mind as yours.

Ed

 

[LouisBooth]

"f you know trinity is so prove it to us"

Messenger, if you look in past threads you will see I have posted a mirad of information on trinity docterine. If you say something twenty times and someone says, can you say that again? I'm gonna just say, buy a tape recorder. You've got a search option, use it

 

[edpobre]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"f you know trinity is so prove it to us"

Messenger, if you look in past threads you will see I have posted a mirad of information on trinity docterine. If you say something twenty times and someone says, can you say that again? I'm gonna just say, buy a tape recorder. You've got a search option, use it

Yeah, it's like going up to a man at a corner who seems to be talking to an IMAGINARY friend and asking him who he is talking to. You go to him a thousand times and he tells you he is talking to his friend. Until one day, he tells you, "buy a tape recorder. You've got a search option, use it!"

The Bible says the FATHER is the ONLY true God and you say, "no, the Bible CLEARLY says the SON is God, but the Father and the son ARE one God."

Are you really SEEING something that is NOT written in the Bible and I CAN'T see?

Ed

 

[Messenger]

Hey Ed since you'll actually respond I'll ask you some questions....
Here goes
Isaiah 9:6For to us a child is born, to us a son is given and the government will be upon his shoulder and his name will be called "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

Is this verse speaking of Jesus?

I do not believe Jesus and Jahovah are the same nor do I understand wether people who believe trinity believe this or not....ONE goal yes....But they are physically separate.

I also have yet to find in the Bible where it states that Jesus and God are equal.

Trinity is a man made up doctrine...now what part is Biblically sound and Spiritially inspired I'm not sure???

Thus far I have found many people who stand up for Trinity doctrine as hypocrites rude arrogant and unwelling to shed some light and they appear to be lost....I wish that if there is someone out there who truely believes this doctrine is Biblically based and Spiritually inspired they would shed light in an intelligent caring loving manner.

I am a Christian! That is not up for anyones judgement except mine and God's...A Christian is caring giving loving and compassionate...many self proclaimed Christains live for this world not for God and state that I am not a Christian. My life is given to God, Jesus and I let the Holy Spirit be my guide and the Bible be my truth....to all who state I do not belong or I am not a Christian I'd say you better take off your blinders.

Love and God Bless.

 

[LouisBooth]

"Are you really SEEING something that is NOT written in the Bible and I CAN'T see? "

Yup, its in the bible but it seems you dont' wanna see it ed. Messenger you can chew on these verses for awhile if you want...
Phil. 1:2 John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9 Acts 5:3-4
64:8; 44:24 John 1:3; Col. 1:15-17 Job 33:4; 26:13 2 Cor. 6:16 Col. 1:27 John 14:7 1 Kings 8:27 Matt. 28:20 Psalm 139:7-10 1 John 3:20 John 16:30; 21:17 1 Cor. 2:10-11

 

[LouisBooth]

another great short detailed explaination

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/trinity.shtml

 

[godchild78]

Are you guys here to prove something...or are you guys here to create a war??

Why are you all so keen in teaching someone about your
philosophy?
If you all are true Christians...read the bible, undertand what it's trying to tell you all. Start believing in God's words....and be saved. BUT DON'T confuse anyone. I and you are not going to think the same. Neither did I nor you died to save people from their sins. So, why do you all want to impose your thoughts and understandings on the other.
Arguing about trinity or that GOD the father,The Son and The Holy Spirit are three different divine powers are not going to solve the problem. This is a mystery which we will come to know once we meet our heavenly Father.
Everyone has a reponsibility of spreading the good news to the whole world. That's what Jesus wants from us. Jesus was sent by GOD to teach us how to live and how not to fall into any traps set by the SATAN. Jesus died for our sins. He became a sacrifice, a curse so that we may be saved and not for us to argue about the saviour or our God who sent him or the HOLY spirit.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16 KJV)"
Matthew 12:32 -
"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
Do you still want to argue???

MAN CANNOT UNDERSTAND GOD'S WAYS!!!!!!!

You have no right to judge your fellow brothers.
Matthew 7:1 - "Judge not, that ye be not judged..."(Do not find fault with anyone except yourself or you will expose your own criminal tendencies and disposition).
Galatians 6:7-8 -
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."

After reading these scriptures, how can you say, what this person feels/understand about the bible is wrong and what you believe is the TRUTH.
Don't be deceived by someone else's preachings or some man-made doctrines.Mark 9:40-"Whoever is not against Jesus is for Jesus" Believe only in what is give in the Bible and don't go by your own understandings.

JOHN 1:1-5 says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."

John 8:12
"Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."

I hope you all know what the above passages mean. If not here's some more...
Rev. 22:13
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last"
Ephes. 3:9 -
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Col. 1:15-18
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Hebrews 1:1-2
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

I don't want to give my own explaination....b'cos you will start arguing with me. Whoever can undertand from the above scriptures will know what I'm trying to say. Anyways...hope u all won't argue anymore on this topic.
God bless u all!

-godchild78

 

[verismo]

This statement does not exist anywhere in the entire Bible. In fact, neither does the "Holy Spirit". The Bible clearly calls is the HOLY GHOST.

This was in reference to "God the Father; God the Son; God the Holy Spirit"

Sure it does, even more, it does not even name the separation:

Matt 28:19: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

In the NAME of not the NAMES of.

 

[inhimitrust]

God bless you.

 

[inhimitrust]

Quote:

Originally Posted by: TorahsDisciple

This statement does not exist anywhere in the entire Bible. In fact, neither does the "Holy Spirit". The Bible clearly calls is the HOLY GHOST.

Ghost is an older term I think. It is translated ghost or spirit, breath, wind, breeze. If you like using the word ghost, then feel free to use it.

Strong's greek-- 4151 pneuma pnyoo'-mah from 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:--ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare 5590.
From KJV Strong's 1) the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son a) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the "Holy" Spirit) b) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of "Truth") c) never referred to as a depersonalised force 2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides b) the soul 3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting a) a life giving spirit b) a human soul that has left the body c) a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel 1) used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men2) the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ 4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc. 5) a movement of air (a gentle blast) a) of the wind, hence the wind itself b) breath of nostrils or mouth


"spirit" hebrew 7307 ruwach roo'-akh from 7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions):--air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit((-ual)), tempest, X vain, ((whirl-))wind(-y).

"ghost" hebrew 1478 gava` gaw-vah' a primitive root; to breathe out, i.e. (by implication) expire:--die, be dead, give up the ghost, perish.

 

[john14_20]

God never came down but sent his Son.
No one has seen the Father but the Son.
If trinity was true than anyone who say Jesus saw the Father....It just isn't so.

You have just proven the Trinity with your own words.

If trinity was true than anyone who saw Jesus saw the Father

If you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father - Jesus words, not mine
JN 14:9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father'?

 

[ewnet]

how do you see what the Psalm 72 speaks about, about trinity? or do you think the trinity like the orthodox thinks three in one God? like some times they see them as the visitor of Abrham as three people?

 

[john14_20]

how do you see what the Psalm 72 speaks about, about trinity? or do you think the trinity like the orthodox thinks three in one God? like some times they see them as the visitor of Abrham as three people?

what exactly about Ps 72 are you talking about?

 

[Qoheleth]

john14_20 Is this what you are referring to, may I help here:

God never came down but sent his Son.
No one has seen the Father but the Son.
If trinity was true than anyone who say Jesus saw the Father....It just isn't so.

You have just proven the Trinity with your own words.

If trinity was true than anyone who saw Jesus saw the Father

1. Jesus did not mean by these words that when men saw him, they were literally beholding his Father. Consider the following:
   1. Physically, Jesus was not the image of his Father. Isaiah wrote: "he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him". (Isa. 53:2). It is unthinkable that the Father would be less comely than His creation.
   2. Jesus told the Jews that they had "neither heard his {the Father's} voice at any time, nor seen his shape." (John 5:37). This would have been untrue if Jesus were himself the Father.
   3. The Father dwells "in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16; cf. 1 John 4:12). Those who saw Jesus, did not, therefore literally see the Father.
2. John said, "no man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (John 1:18). The Son "declared" the Father by the words which he spoke and the works which he performed. Jesus told Philip: "the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." (John 14:10). It was in this sense that Jesus meant, "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father."
   
3. Jesus employed the language of "God manifestation" characteristic of the Old Testament. Accredited representatives exercising divine power and authority bore the divine name. (See Exod. 23:20, 21 - "I send an Angel . . . my name is in him.") Jesus was the supreme manifestation - "God was manifest in the flesh." (1 Tim. 3:16). Although not "Very God" he was justified in saying "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" since the Father had delegated this authority and power to him. (See John 5:19, 22, 23, 30).