The fatal flaw of Universalism

[FineLinen]

Steven, if some carnal minded one here tells me I haven't read the bible, or only have 'one verse' supporting the plan that only those whose minds are unveiled can see, he really has shot himself in his intellectual foot, proving a cranial vacancy of both, the spirit and the truth IMO. He has absolutely proven how conformed to the warning of scripture he is.

ACT 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

In your comment on the Acts 3:21 verse above, it is obvious to those who are spiritual that there is still a need for prophets today. For truly God still doesn't do a thing without revealing it to those who are 'spokesmen' for His words. And those here who don't even acknowledge that fact, can only respond even as the "veiled minds" of Jews. Those who still are waiting for the messiah to return...for the first time?

As for 'interpretive bias' I can only say YES AND AMEN, we all have it. But they are not all right, who come here with their carnal minded degrees devoid of the Spirit of truth. If I was forced to decide 'the book' or 'the Spirit' I'll take the Spirit. They cannot imagine such a stupid decision on our part....and therein lies the sadness of a "veiled" decision IMO.

edit; the bolded "can see" above clarified a hurried response.

Dear Sage: Even your hurried responses are worth reading.

The Lord moves in mystery. The longer one walks in His Presence & learns of His ways, the foundation for His veiled words will surely escape us & continue to be just that.....veiled!

The carnal mind must go. It must die. This world of Abba has no room for the ghastly world of me!

The purpose of the cross is to do away with you, blessed riddance!

 

[Saint Steven]

This world of Abba has no room for the ghastly world of me!

I agree on one level, but I have a different take on that.

I think the one who has numbered the very hairs of our heads has an incredible interest in the world of us. He will listen to anything we want to talk about. He cares about the smallest detail. He even helps me find a parking spot when they are all gone. And shares the moment of bliss with me when I see the spot he is pointing to. Does a sparrow fall without his notice? (and concern) Even causing the life-giving rain to fall on both the righteous and the wicked. Food for thought. I love you.

It's good to know that we are always welcome in Abba's lap any time we want to climb up there. And when we can't make it in our power to raise our hands to be picked up in his powerful hands.

 

[FineLinen]

That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Dear Saint: Perhaps a new pair of revolutionary glasses are in order?

One can live in a colour blind world of our glorious God and see only black and white and think this is how everybody sees.

The fatal flaw(s) of the Restitution of the all> > >

plan b =

God is the potential Saviour of all mankind, but only those who trust in Him (who believe).

The Perfect Plan=

God IS the Saviour of ALL mankind > > >

especially

those who believe/ trust in Him.

NOTE!

Especially = malista

Malista is NOT monon or monos.

 

[FineLinen]

I agree on one level, but I have a different take on that.

I think the one who has numbered the very hairs of our heads has an incredible interest in the world of us. He will listen to anything we want to talk about. He cares about the smallest detail. He even helps me find a parking spot when they are all gone. And shares the moment of bliss with me when I see the spot he is pointing to. Does a sparrow fall without his notice? (and concern) Even causing the life-giving rain to fall on both the righteous and the wicked. Food for thought. I love you.

My dear Saint: I am in absolute agreement with your different take!

Our Father is for us and by the working of at-one-ment, which is actually reconciliation, has full intention of bringing every last sparrow, every last good, bad & ugly of us into Himself & His point of view

 

[Saint Steven]

NOTE!

Especially = malista

Malista is NOT monon or monos.

Could you expand this thought for us? Thanks. I appreciate it. (I know you are very interested in expansion of all sorts - lol) Right up your alley.

 

[FineLinen]

Could you expand this thought for us? Thanks. I appreciate it. (I know you are very interested in expansion of all sorts - lol) Right up your alley.

Dear Steve: My spirit longs to be expanded into the inexhaustible, even into the One who goes a little further. Yup, He is the Aleph & the Tav, the mighty Prince-Leader of Reconciliation & a whole lot more. Our Abba has a Son, that Son in His priestly work leads many sons to glory, not mere children, sons made into the image of Himself. My God, there are times it is impossible to articulate the majesty of what His Plan is, in fact it is a mere whisper of wind-words.

My brother, I know this is not what you are wanted expanded so in the following post I will attempt an expansion.

 

[FineLinen]

Especially = malista

Malista is NOT monon or monos.

Our God is the Saviour of the all. Not a part of the all: the all. He is NOT a potential Saviour, He is Saviour.

However > > >

Our God has an election, it is known as the first-fruits to which His final harvest is pointing. The elect first-fruits did not decide to follow Jesus, He said you are Mine, follow Me!

The malista are really special. They are chosen before the foundation of the world, they believe/ trust in Him because of HIS choosing NOT theirs.

God is especially the Saviour of the malista. The malista (however) are but first-fruits of His final harvest which is the entire broken & bruised children of Adam1.

God is NOT only the Saviour of the malista, He is the Saviour of the radical all of the good, the bad, and the ugly.

NOT only the malista.

Monon & monos = only

 

[Lazarus Short]

 

[Saint Steven]

Does a sparrow fall without his notice? (and concern)

I was pondering my post from this morning.
What would Abba's response be to a sparrow falling? (dying)

A breathtaking image came to my mind of the Father reaching down to retrieve the soul of the creature. Offering a finger for it to perch on as he brought it up to the heavenly realms and placed it on a tree branch in its new heavenly home. The sparrow quickly got its bearings and flew off to join the other birds doing what birds do. A glorious restoration.

 

[Der Alte]

And God most certainly did check the blood, the households with the blood on the doorposts were spared but the households without the blood were destroyed. What can wash away my sins? Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

 

[Lazarus Short]

And God most certainly did check the blood, the households with the blood on the doorposts were spared but the households without the blood were destroyed. What can wash away my sins? Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

Agreement at last!

 

[FineLinen]

I was pondering my post from this morning.
What would Abba's response be to a sparrow falling? (dying)

A breathtaking image came to my mind of the Father reaching down to retrieve the soul of the creature. Offering a finger for it to perch on as he brought it up to the heavenly realms and placed it on a tree branch in its new heavenly home. The sparrow quickly got its bearings and flew off to join the other birds doing what birds do. A glorious restoration.

Dear Saint: Our Father cares for His creation. Every common sparrow is important to Him because nothing is common to Him. Everything has a purpose in His wonderful Plan. The Master does wonderful miracles that at the close has leftover remnants. Surely instead of having the remnants gathered up that nothing be lost, He could simply produce additional miracles with abundance?

That is NOT the Master Isous who has grasped us to Himself. He is the God of at-one-ment. He is the God of restoration!

Every bird, every broken & fallen child of Adam restored.

 

[Saint Steven]

I was pondering my post from this morning.
What would Abba's response be to a sparrow falling? (dying)

A breathtaking image came to my mind of the Father reaching down to retrieve the soul of the creature. Offering a finger for it to perch on as he brought it up to the heavenly realms and placed it on a tree branch in its new heavenly home. The sparrow quickly got its bearings and flew off to join the other birds doing what birds do. A glorious restoration.

Since Abba even looks after the sparrows, as insignificant as they may seem to us, how much more does he look after us?

Matthew 10:29-31
Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care. 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

 

[Der Alte]

I was pondering my post from this morning.
What would Abba's response be to a sparrow falling? (dying)
A breathtaking image came to my mind of the Father reaching down to retrieve the soul of the creature. Offering a finger for it to perch on as he brought it up to the heavenly realms and placed it on a tree branch in its new heavenly home. The sparrow quickly got its bearings and flew off to join the other birds doing what birds do. A glorious restoration.

As heartwarming as this image is, sparrows, unlike man, do not sin.

 

[Hillsage]

According to scripture it takes the spirit of a man to know 'his own thoughts', could not that also be true of the spirit in bird brained beasts?

1CO 2:11 For what person knows a man's thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

NUM 16:22 And they fell on their faces, and said, "O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be angry with all the congregation?"

ECC 3:18, 19 I said in my heart with regard to the sons of men that God is testing them to show them that they are but BEASTS. For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of BEASTS is the same; AS ONE DIES, SO DIES THE OTHER. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity.

JAM 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and SIN, when it is finished, bringeth forth DEATH.

ROM 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God; 20 for the CREATION was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the CREATION itself will be set free from its BONDAGE to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now; 23 and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

One who can plumb the depths, can also see that it is sin that causes bodily death...for animal/beast or for saintly man. Physical DEATH...and dust to dust was the curse of the garden. Animals were created as "living souls" just as man.

GEN 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living/chay creature/nephesh after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

GEN 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living/chay soul/nephesh.

Prove by scripture that animals don't have soulish emotions, or come meet my dog, cat or learn from even the fish. Even plants respond to the emotions of man. For even they have the "breath of life" from the Spirit of God which gives them life. BUT MATURED SIN CAUSES DEATH AND ALL OF CREATION GROANS FOR RELEASE FROM ITS SPIRITUAL BONDAGE.

JON 3:8 but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and let them cry mightily to God; yea, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence which is in his hands.

LUK 19:39 And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples. 40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

So I encourage my brethren here, who understand that the curse of sin and death affected the whole of creation, to not let the modern day pharisees tell you to hold your peace concerning that gospel which you have heard from on high when deep called unto the deep.

WHY IS THE LION GOING TO LAY WITH THE LAMB, WHEN ALL OF CREATION WILL BE SUBJECT TO THE LIFE OF THE SON. THOUGH NOT UNTIL AFTER 'ALL ARE SUBJECT TO HIM' AND DEATH ITSELF IS DESTROYED.

1CO 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 "For God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "All things are put in subjection under him," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things under him, that God may be everything to every one.

Yes ALL THINGS will be subject to LIFE when the purpose of DEATH has been fulfilled.

1Co 15:29 Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf?

Yes, why were these people ignorantly getting baptized for the dead ....according to 'the ignorant gospel of mediocrity'? Obviously, they did not know the gospel of orthodoxy today. Or were these unsaved dead just getting a 'baptism for the dead' so they could be raised from the dead...just to be sent to eternal hell FULLY ALIVE.

Dear God, let all here, be not ignorant enough to believe what I just said.

 

[FineLinen]

According to scripture it takes the spirit of a man to know 'his own thoughts', could not that also be true of the spirit in bird brained beasts?

1CO 2:11 For what person knows a man's thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

NUM 16:22 And they fell on their faces, and said, "O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be angry with all the congregation?"

ECC 3:18, 19 I said in my heart with regard to the sons of men that God is testing them to show them that they are but BEASTS. For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of BEASTS is the same; AS ONE DIES, SO DIES THE OTHER. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity.

JAM 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and SIN, when it is finished, bringeth forth DEATH.

ROM 8:19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God; 20 for the CREATION was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the CREATION itself will be set free from its BONDAGE to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now; 23 and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

One who can plumb the depths, can also see that it is sin that causes bodily death...for animal/beast or for saintly man. Physical DEATH...and dust to dust was the curse of the garden. Animals were created as "living souls" just as man.

GEN 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living/chay creature/nephesh after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

GEN 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living/chay soul/nephesh.

Prove by scripture that animals don't have soulish emotions, or come meet my dog, cat or learn from even the fish. Even plants respond to the emotions of man. For even they have the "breath of life" from the Spirit of God which gives them life. BUT MATURED SIN CAUSES DEATH AND ALL OF CREATION GROANS FOR RELEASE FROM ITS SPIRITUAL BONDAGE.

JON 3:8 but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and let them cry mightily to God; yea, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence which is in his hands.

LUK 19:39 And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples. 40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

So I encourage my brethren here, who understand that the curse of sin and death affected the whole of creation, to not let the modern day pharisees tell you to hold your peace concerning that gospel which you have heard from on high when deep called unto the deep.

WHY IS THE LION GOING TO LAY WITH THE LAMB, WHEN ALL OF CREATION WILL BE SUBJECT TO THE LIFE OF THE SON. THOUGH NOT UNTIL AFTER 'ALL ARE SUBJECT TO HIM' AND DEATH ITSELF IS DESTROYED.

1CO 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 "For God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "All things are put in subjection under him," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things under him, that God may be everything to every one.

Yes ALL THINGS will be subject to LIFE when the purpose of DEATH has been fulfilled.

1Co 15:29 Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf?

Yes, why were these people ignorantly getting baptized for the dead ....according to 'the ignorant gospel of mediocrity'? Obviously, they did not know the gospel of orthodoxy today. Or were these unsaved dead just getting a 'baptism for the dead' so they could be raised from the dead...just to be sent to eternal hell FULLY ALIVE.

Dear Sage: The entire groaning creation shall be delivered! Not some (tis) of it, not a bunch of it, the radical all of it.

Our God loses nothing, He swallows up the radical all into Himself!

“Love knows no limit to its endurance, no end to its trust, no fading of its hope; it can outlast anything. It is, in fact, the one thing that still stands when all else has fallen.” - J.B. Phillips-

 

[Der Alte]

...

Dear Sage: The entire groaning creation shall be delivered! Not some (tis) of it, not a bunch of it, the radical all of it.
Our God loses nothing, He swallows up the radical all into Himself!
“Love knows no limit to its endurance, no end to its trust, no fading of its hope; it can outlast anything. It is, in fact, the one thing that still stands when all else has fallen.” - J.B. Phillips-

Logical fallacy "Appeal to authority" quoting someone who is purportedly an expert in the field and everyone is supposed to accept everything he says without question.
Where is that verse where God, Himself, of Jesus Himself, says they will save all humanity, the righteous and unrighteous alike, even after death?

 

[Der Alte]

...

1 Corinthians 2:11
Numbers 16:22
Ecclesiastes 3:18-19
James 1:15
Romans 8:19-23
Genesis 1:24
Genesis 2:7
Jonah 3:8
Luke 19:39-40
1 Corinthians 15:26
1 Corinthians 15:29

Anyone can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to by quoting selective verses out-of-context.
Just read the literature from any heterodox religious group see e.g.; JW, LDS, WWCG, OP, UPCI, INC etc.
Now after reviewing the above scripture and seeing only what the poster wants you to see let's go to the end of the book and see how the story ends.
….Rev 21:4, which is the second from last book, says “there shall be no more death” in vs. 5 God said “Behold I make all things new.” Although God said “No more death””all things new” 3 verses later Rev 21:8 says eight groups “shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone:" which is still the second death.”
When God spoke verse 8 did He have amnesia and forget what He said in vs. 4-5? If there is no more death after vs. 4 then those thrown into the lake of fire in vs. 8 do not die. Either way Rev 21:4-8 contradicts UR.
.....Now moving to the last chapter in the Bible, which does not say everyone will be saved, righteous and unrighteous alike, even after death.

Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. ​

There is no mention of salvation after this verse

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.​

Only 2 more verses in the Bible, also no mention of salvation after this verse.

 

[FineLinen]

Thank God our Father for the flaw(s) of the Restitution of all back to Him.

"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."

Please note:

Pas radically means all, not tis (some), the radical all.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Anyone can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to by quoting selective verses out-of-context.
Just read the literature from any heterodox religious group see e.g.; JW, LDS, WWCG, OP, UPCI, INC etc.
Now after reviewing the above scripture and seeing only what the poster wants you to see let's go to the end of the book and see how the story ends.
….Rev 21:4, which is the second from last book, says “there shall be no more death” in vs. 5 God said “Behold I make all things new.” Although God said “No more death””all things new” 3 verses later Rev 21:8 says eight groups “shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone:" which is still the second death.”
When God spoke verse 8 did He have amnesia and forget what He said in vs. 4-5? If there is no more death after vs. 4 then those thrown into the lake of fire in vs. 8 do not die. Either way Rev 21:4-8 contradicts UR.
.....Now moving to the last chapter in the Bible, which does not say everyone will be saved, righteous and unrighteous alike, even after death.

Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. ​

There is no mention of salvation after this verse

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.​

Only 2 more verses in the Bible, also no mention of salvation after this verse.

Happily, the end of the Bible is not the end of the story, for we see far ahead of Revelation 22 in the fifteenth chapter of First Corinthians, where Revelation 21:4 is supported by I Corinthians 15:26 - "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." Verse 25 had already stated that "all enemies" would be put under the feet of Jesus the Christ. Would those enemies not include being unjust or filthy? Yes, so Rev. 22:11 is swept aside in the End.