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So...you think and believe our puny little wills trump God's sovereign Will? I believe in a God named YHVH, Who is both willing and able to save all. You believe in the same God, but you think He is too weak to save all, though he is willing.
"All around us we observe a pregnant creation. The difficult times of pain throughout the world are simply birth pangs. But it’s not only around us; it’s within us. The Spirit of God is arousing us within. We’re also feeling the birth pangs. These sterile and barren bodies of ours are yearning for full deliverance. That is why waiting does not diminish us, any more than waiting diminishes a pregnant mother. We are enlarged in the waiting. We, of course, don’t see what is enlarging us. But the longer we wait, the larger we become, and the more joyful our expectancy.
Meanwhile, the moment we get tired in the waiting, God’s Spirit is right alongside helping us along. If we don’t know how or what to pray, it doesn’t matter. He does our praying in and for us, making prayer out of our wordless sighs, our aching groans.
He knows us far better than we know ourselves, knows our pregnant condition, and keeps us present before God. That’s why we can be so sure that every detail in our lives of love for God is worked into something good.
God knew what he was doing from the very beginning. He decided from the outset to shape the lives of those who love him along the same lines as the life of his Son. The Son stands first in the line of humanity he restored. We see the original and intended shape of our lives there in him. After God made that decision of what his children should be like, he followed it up by calling people by name. After he called them by name, he set them on a solid basis with himself. And then, after getting them established, he stayed with them to the end, gloriously completing what he had begun." -The Message-
I believe in a God who completes what He has begun. He is Author & Finisher!
Excuse me for a moment while I become a Damnationalsit.
His word is filled with warnings, He begged with Israel, "why must you perish 'O house of Israel."
Jesus cried out in the streets of Jerusalem, "If you believe not that I am He, you will die in your sins."
All the apostles warned us! It is impossible to read the Word of God and not see multiple warnings.
If we perish, we will have no excuse when we stand before God.
Simple. Because human prisons are not the lake of fire. One cannot possibly compare jails made by human hands, staffed and run by fallible humans, with the lake of fire administered by the hand of God.Why don't people who are sent to prison in this life become law abiding citizens and love the judges, lawyers, juries etc who put them in prison?
Au contraire; just that you overlook them.And the Uni view either completely ignores Revelation or tries to make it say something it does not say.
Not one single verse in Revelation states or implies that "the LOF is a place of chastening for the purpose of correction and ultimately reconciliation with God."
Of course they can but you have not attempted to explain away the plain reading of Col 1:20 where God's expressed purpose is to reconcile all things to himself. God means what He says; no caveats allowed. Proper hermeneutics requires that the rest of Scripture be interpreted from the clear and plain reading that this verse requires.Anybody can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to by quoting disparate verses out-of-context and/or jamming various verses together regardless of context as you are trying to do with Col 1:20 and
Nope; your cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias prevents you from understanding correctly. I already cited Matt 25:46 to you as the favorite proof-text that the ECT crowd enjoys utilizing in order to claim that aionion means "eternal" when in fact it cannot mean eternal because it references the Millennium which is obviously not eternal. You have not explained that away.I see torment for ever and ever but nothing about chastening/reconciliation. Do you think maybe John forgot to put that in?
Quite the contrary, they understood Revelation because they understood what the Koine Greek meant instead of your misinterpretation. Even in our English, all means all but your version of the gospel message dictates that the Good News is really the "horrible news" as the great majority of humankind is eternally tormented and never reconciled to God - contrary to Col 1:20.Also how did the seven churches in Revelation, to whom John was writing, understand Revelation? It is highly unlikely that they had a copy or even heard of the epistle to Colossae. Both epistles may have been written about the same time in different parts of the world, Paul in Rome, John on Patmos. When they heard/read Revelation how would they understand it? There is nothing about chastening and correction.
I agree! We were warned, and the wicked non-believers will have no excuse. They go into the Lake of Fire. But how is that the end, if God is to become All in all?
You've got to harmonize ALL the Scriptures.
Further, you will profit by seeing how "hel" came from Norse mythology (the godess Hel and her realm of Helheim (House of Hel)) and then showed up in "Beowulf" with its thin Christian veneer. In "Beowulf," we see both hel and hell, as we see later in the 1611 KJV. Yes, hel and hell. It would seem that "hel" is pagan and "hell" is Christian, but the 1611 KJV shows both and how one became the other. So...the "hell" in your KJV is linked to the pagan Norse "hel." Argue all you want, but there is no way around that.
With all due respect Laz, it seems to me you would know better that to compare Norse Mythology with the Word of God. This is what happens when you stray from the Word.
You aren't seeing what I am showing you. If your Bible has words in it from a pagan source, it is time to move on to another version...one which lacks the pagan word and concept. I am not the one who has strayed.
The "All in All is when the plan of God is finished, there will be no trace of sin left on earth. All things will become as God originally made it, perfect and sinless.
There is quite a difference in the Bible mentioning pagan gods and such as warnings (these represent sin and ungodliness in today's society) and using pagan sources to define hell in the Bible.
If you grasp what it means to be IN Christ Jesus you should be able to realize the scope of the Restitution of all things, the ta pante.
Upon that foundation you should know every last being of the heavens, the earth & the underworld ultimately worships Him in union with His lovely Name! Not in perfunctory genuflections "at" the sound of the Name, but out of union IN/EN the Name of all names.
The All, the ta pante!
What Does Philippians 2:10 Mean? "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,."
The Lord Jesus Christ is the predestined Lord of the universe. The scope of His conquests are not simply larger, they are larger & broader by far. His Name is better by far, and in that Name every knee bows, and in that Name every last being in every dimension of the heavens, earth and underworld worships.
Larger > > > Broader> > > Better
Those in hell will be brought before God at the White Throne of Judgement and be forced to bow and confess Jesus Christ is Lord.
There is quite a difference in the Bible mentioning pagan gods and such as warnings (these represent sin and ungodliness in today's society) and using pagan sources to define hell in the Bible.
There is quite a difference in the Bible mentioning pagan gods and such as warnings (these represent sin and ungodliness in today's society) and using pagan sources to define hell in the Bible.
So God will be all in all that's leftover after he drags out the prisoners and forces them to bow and confess before consigning them to the torment of fire forever?
And we have no right to judge whether this conduct is good, loving, gracious, merciful, righteous, holy, fatherly or just, because we know only human standards?
Is that a fair summary of your position Charles?
So show me some scripture, in Revelation, which states that the unrighteous in the LOF will repent and become righteous, loving God etc. versus "tormented for ever and ever."Simple. Because human prisons are not the lake of fire. One cannot possibly compare jails made by human hands, staffed and run by fallible humans, with the lake of fire administered by the hand of God.
Au contraire; just that you overlook them.
Rev 15:4 Who should not fear You, O Lord, and will glorify Your name? For You alone are holy. For all the nations will come and will worship before You, because Your righteous acts have been revealed."
Rev 5:9-10, “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. 10You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”
Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature which is in heaven, and upon the earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and everything in them, saying: “To the One sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb, blessing and honor and glory and might to the ages of the ages.”
Rev 22:3 No longer will there be a curse upon anything. For the throne of God and of the Lamb will be there, and his servants will worship him.
Of course they can but you have not attempted to explain away the plain reading of Col 1:20 where God's expressed purpose is to
Proper hermeneutics requires that the reader take into consideration ALL of scripture not just a few out of context verses.reconcile all things to himself. God means what He says; no caveats allowed. Proper hermeneutics requires that the rest of Scripture be interpreted from the clear and plain reading that this verse requires.
Nope; your cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias prevents you from understanding correctly. I already cited Matt 25:46 to you as the favorite proof-text that the ECT crowd enjoys utilizing in order to claim that aionion means "eternal" when in fact it cannot mean eternal because it references the Millennium which is obviously not eternal. You have not explained that away.
Total rubbish. God's will is that all be saved but according to Jeremiah, see above, while God's will means all, not all will be saved. When one reads and reconciles ALL scripture instead of isolated proof texts, they might realize how people live will exclude them from ALL. Here are 3 verses where Jesus, Himself, defines "aionios" as eternal, unending etc.Quite the contrary, they understood Revelation because they understood what the Koine Greek meant instead of your misinterpretation. Even in our English, all means all but your version of the gospel message dictates that the Good News is really the "horrible news" as the great majority of humankind is eternally tormented and never reconciled to God - contrary to Col 1:20
So God will be all in all that's leftover after he drags out the prisoners and forces them to bow and confess before consigning them to the torment of fire forever?
And we have no right to judge whether this conduct is good, loving, gracious, merciful, righteous, holy, fatherly or just, because we know only human standards?
Is that a fair summary of your position Charles?
Am I correct in assuming that you think you have the right to question God?
You are correct in my position, because I get my info from Gods Word.
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