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Al Touthentop

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As I read the op the fatal flaw is the belief God planned to institute a physical kingdom on the physical planet with Jesus as the physical king.

From the OP:

"This thread focuses on the most basic idea of Dispensationalism, besides dispensations. Dispensationalism claims that God offered the Jews a chance to make Jesus their earthly King. "

Which is a bit weird on their part because this is exactly what the Pharisees wanted. It was Jesus who disabused them of this misconception of theirs. So, by embracing the idea of an earthly kingdom, the modern day dispensationalists are, in effect, embracing the Pharisaical misunderstanding 2000 years ago.

The Jewish leadership did not reject an earthly kingdom, they rejected a spiritual kingdom. That's exactly what the dispensationalists reject. We may as well call them Pharisees.
 
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Josheb

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Which is a bit weird on their part because this is exactly what the Pharisees wanted. It was Jesus who disabused them of this misconception of theirs. So, by embracing the idea of an earthly kingdom, the modern day dispensationalists are, in effect, embracing the Pharisaical misunderstanding 2000 years ago.

The Jewish leadership did not reject an earthly kingdom, they rejected a spiritual kingdom. That's exactly what the dispensationalists reject. We may as well call them Pharisees.
I concur. Furthermore we understand quite plainly from 1 Samuel 8 that God was to be their king and they rejected that rule. They want to be like other nations and have an earthly physical human king.
 
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Al Touthentop

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I concur. Furthermore we understand quite plainly from 1 Samuel 8 that God was to be their king and they rejected that rule. They want to be like other nations and have an earthly physical human king.

That's what all of this end-times nonsense is about. "God's coming back and he's going to give us a front row seat view of your torture!"

A good book I recommend though I think in some places he goes to far, is https://www.amazon.com/Last-Days-Madness-Obsession-Modern/dp/0915815354

ie; not every passage of New Testament prophecy points at ad70 (though many do).
 
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David Kent

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So to put it in a few words. The fatal flaw in dispensationalism is that the dispensations in the Bible ain’t what they say they are.
That is not the only fatal flaw.
 
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His student

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Can you show us where Chafer or any other Dispensational Premillennialist mentions some other parenthesis? In the absence of any other asserted parenthesis the one on record is in fact the only one. Works both ways, His student.
I'm assuming this is a mistake as to what you think I was talking about.

It may be that a parenthesis is setting off what is an afterthought or a unimportant interruption in a sentence or, in this case, history. That would be the meaning of a person who says that the thing being described is "only a parenthesis". That is the apparent intention of the OP in saying it that way.

Definition of parenthesis
"An amplifying or explanatory word, phrase, or sentence inserted in a passage from which it is usually set off by punctuation."

There is a world of difference between saying that the parenthesis is the "only one", as you are saying, and saying that it is "only a parenthesis".

The parenthesis may well be one of if not the most important period or part of the overall program - thus the amplification.

I know of no dispensationalist who teaches that the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ and the church age that followed is unimportant. Certainly the evangelical L. S. Chafer views it as the central point in God's program of history.

In fact - I know of no dispensationalist who says that anyone will enter the millennium who is not saved through a personal faith in Jesus Christ.

Nor do I know of any who says that anyone will be saved either before Christ, during the church age or in the millennium by any other means than the work of Jesus Christ being imputed to him by God.

By closing your post the way you did I deduce that your issue with me may be that you think me a dispensationalist and you don't like it.

It's a little like how I deduced the probable meaning of the OP's use of "only a parenthesis".

Works that way Josheb. Hope it clears it up for you.:)
 
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Al Touthentop

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I know of no dispensationalist who teaches that the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ and the church age that followed is unimportant. C

But, they typically teach that the kingdom has not come. Yet John said that his fellow Jesus followers were in fact in the kingdom at that time 2000 years ago. This is for me the main disagreement that I have with dispensationalism as it relates to the kingdom of God. John the Baptist said it was "at hand", near as did Jesus Christ. He has to have changed his mind for the kingdom not to have come.

(Rev. 1:9)
 
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His student

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But, they typically teach that the kingdom has not come. Yet John said that his fellow Jesus followers were in fact in the kingdom at that time 2000 years ago. This is for me the main disagreement that I have with dispensationalism as it relates to the kingdom of God. John the Baptist said it was "at hand", near as did Jesus Christ. He has to have changed his mind for the kingdom not to have come. Rev. 1:9)
I haven't heard any dispensationalist deny that the Kingdom of God is within you.

Viewing the physical kingdom mentioned in the Book of Revelation as literal in no way negates the teaching concerning the spiritual kingdom IMO - no more so than seeing a literal tribulation period in the Book of Revelation negates the teaching that we will have tribulation in this age.
 
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Al Touthentop

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I haven't heard any dispensationalist deny that the Kingdom of God is within you.

Viewing the physical kingdom mentioned in the Book of Revelation as literal in no way negates the teaching concerning the spiritual kingdom IMO - no more so than seeing a literal tribulation period in the Book of Revelation negates the teaching that we will have tribulation in this age.

There is no earthly kingdom. "My kingdom is not of this world." To insist upon an earthly, physical kingdom, is to argue with the king himself.
 
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His student

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I suddenly need a salami sandwich.
I love salami sandwiches so I would never say that it is "only a salami sandwich".

That would obviously be meant to disparage salami sandwiches.

But it may indeed be that yours is the "only salami sandwich" eaten this day by anyone participating in this thread.:)
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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So, by embracing the idea of an earthly kingdom, the modern day dispensationalists are, in effect, embracing the Pharisaical misunderstanding 2000 years ago.
OR, ? , embracing God's Kingdom , as written, as Revealed, ?? (both dispensationalists and non-dispensationalists... ) turning to Yahweh BECAUSE JESUS SAYS TO, because Yahuweh's Kingdom IS AT HAND.... ENTER thru the gate (which is Jesus) ...
It may be a false witness against dispensationalists who believe the truth to classify them all together as it seems you (and others?) do.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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But, they typically teach that the kingdom has not come.
No wonder, no surprise, IF in truth combating the errors of those who think Jesus is ruling the earth since He ascended into heaven or shortly thereafter....
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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The Jewish leadership did not reject an earthly kingdom, they rejected a spiritual kingdom. That's exactly what the dispensationalists reject. We may as well call them Pharisees.
That would be a blanket* error, a false witness against those who are Ekkesia in spirit and in truth.


*(and apparently also either biased or prejudiced or both, in error)
 
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Al Touthentop

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That would be a blanket* error, a false witness against those who are Ekkesia in spirit and in truth.


*(and apparently also either biased or prejudiced or both, in error)

What part is in error?
 
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Al Touthentop

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No wonder, no surprise, IF in truth combating the errors of those who think Jesus is ruling the earth since He ascended into heaven or shortly thereafter....

Jesus is not ruling the earth, he is ruling the kingdom, the church, as Peter preached on the day of Pentecost.
 
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Al Touthentop

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Regarding a kingdom on earth, what about Revelation 11:15-19 or perhaps Matthew 6:9-13? Do these passages indicate a possibility?

Only if you want to have those passages argue with what Jesus himself said about the subject of his kingdom. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Thus, we are guilty of trying to divide God's house when we take one scripture and use it as a weapon against another.

Jesus said that his kingdom was not earthly. The book of revelations, as stated by its author in the first few verses is figurative. The text following was "signified" and a sign never points to itself.
 
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David Kent

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When I was in the Plymouth Brethren, at first we were taught that after the 'rapture' no one would be saved. Then we were taught that very few would be saved, We were also taught that the Let and Hindrance in Thess:2 was the church and the Holy Spirit. No some dispies say it will be the greatest time of evangelism in histotry. How can one be saved without the Holy Spirit?
The first dispensationalists were the Irvingites and they taught that the rapture would be on Sunday 14th July 1833, when the earth would be left without a preacher and without a tabernacle. They didn't seem to think that any would be saved. In spite of that false prophecy the teaching was absorbed by J N Darby, mainly by the influence of Lady Powerscourt.
 
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