THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF UNIVERSALISM - BEWARE!

[Saint Steven]

I am not pretending we can---universalism says so!! Just a walk through the lake of fire and our are cleansed of sin---therefore---Jesus was never needed, just the lake of fire according to you! JESUS IS WHAT SAVES! WE EITHER SUBMIT, REPANT AND OVERCOME THROUGH HIM, OR THE LAKE OF FIRE WILL DO IT'S JOB AND REMOVE THE SINNER DOWN TO ASHES. THEIR CHOICE.

We should rewind a bit. This "walk in the lake of fire" business is your invention. I have tolerated it in order to communicate with you. Furthermore, repentance (turning away from sin) is somewhat irrelevant in the afterlife, since we will be free from the tempter. However, the turning toward God part of repentance will be relevant. And Jesus says we will ALL be salted with fire. EVERYONE.

Universal Restoration says that we will ALL be restored. A renovation process that will require some demolition (you might be fond of that idea) and some rebuilding. Out with the old, in with the new.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Consider First Corinthians 3:15 - "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." - KJV

Then, consider what Jesus Himself said, "I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?" - KJV

Now if Jesus came to send fire here, it is Godfire, and is it not the same as the fire of the Lake of Fire? Of course it is. Same God. Same fire. Same purpose: to save...as by fire.

The annihilationists clearly have it wrong, for God's message is that He saves with the agency of fire (Godfire). Therefore any reduction to ashes is temporary, as anytime Godfire comes down out of Heaven and devours so-and-so.

 

[mmksparbud]

Heaven is not something we EARN by our own righteousness. Period.

Exactly!! Only the righteousness of Jesus can save us when He covers us with His forgiving blood! We are to repent (turn away) from sin, and live according to His will on earth---we are to overcome by His strength our sins---to Him that overcomes God will grant eternal life! Universalism wants to do this without overcoming anything and just taking a walk through the flames! Doesn't work that way. That flame of God will destroy what is not protected by the blood. PERIOD!

 

[Lazarus Short]

Yes---it destroys what is not covered with the blood of Jesus! Only the saved are protected by His blood. The unrepentant are not covered and are destroyed in that flame.

It is very clear in the Scriptures that God's Fire is to refine, cleanse and even save. That is why He calls Himself a Refiner and Soap. He burns away the dross until the silver and gold appear. Of course, this is not exactly literal.

If you have a good Concordance, you will understand if you do a word study on "fire" and related words.

 

[Saint Steven]

Only the saved are given eternal life, you will not find one verse stating the lost get eternal life.

Damnationism is built on the idea of the immortality of the soul. There cannot be eternal conscious torment without it. Besides, Jesus said, that to God, everyone is alive.

 

[Saint Steven]

No it is not!! That is a cover up. All sinners, including Satan, Hitler and the like will go to the lake of fire and come out cleaned of sin---Jesus is not involved in this! There is no repentance of sin, no living our lives in accordance to God's will, no love for God needed---just a walk through the fire. It is you who say it. When pointed out all you can say is we have a wrong understanding of universalism, but never a statement as to how we are wrong! It's what evolutionist's do! They will say how little we understand evolution, but never state how we are misunderstanding it.

You speak as if you are some sort of expert on Universal Restorationism. You aren't.
And I, with others, have gone into great detail to explain it to you. But you seem to have selective "hearing". I'm trying my best to correct your misunderstanding, and then you have the audacity to try to correct me, as if I don't know what I believe. - lol

Saint Steven said: ↑
That is false understanding of Universal Restoration.
Universal Restoration is COMPLETELY dependent on "the blood of Jesus".

 

[mmksparbud]

We should rewind a bit. This "walk in the lake of fire" business is your invention. I have tolerated it in order to communicate with you. Furthermore, repentance (turning away from sin) is somewhat irrelevant in the afterlife, since we will be free from the tempter. However, the turning toward God part of repentance will be relevant. And Jesus says we will ALL be salted with fire. EVERYONE.

Universal Restoration says that we will ALL be restored. A renovation process that will require some demolition (you might be fond of that idea) and some rebuilding. Out with the old, in with the new.

Unfortunately, the only way to get to the afterlife is to be covered by the blood of Jesus!! That involves accepting His sovereignty, repenting from sin and overcoming while on earth!! At the very least---like the thief on the cross---repentance and acknowledgment of His divinity and supremacy before death!
You can not live through the fire of God without the blood of Jesus first! It destroys on contact without that blood! If you do not accept before you die---there is no 2nd chance to acquire it after death. The lake of fire does not remove sin---it destroys the sinner! It is the blood of Jesus that removes sin! So yes, everyone will have His fire---either you live with Him in that fire by His redeeming grace and blood---or you are destroyed by it.

Got to go---Hospice is due.

 

[Saint Steven]

Exactly!! Only the righteousness of Jesus can save us when He covers us with His forgiving blood! We are to repent (turn away) from sin, and live according to His will on earth---we are to overcome by His strength our sins---to Him that overcomes God will grant eternal life! Universalism wants to do this without overcoming anything and just taking a walk through the flames! Doesn't work that way. That flame of God will destroy what is not protected by the blood. PERIOD!

You agree that we can't earn salvation, and then explain how we earn it. - lol

Saint Steven said: ↑
Heaven is not something we EARN by our own righteousness. Period.

 

[Saint Steven]

to Him that overcomes God will grant eternal life

Biblical misquote. (check the context too - end times scenario)

 

[mmksparbud]

Damnationism is built on the idea of the immortality of the soul. There cannot be eternal conscious torment without it. Besides, Jesus said, that to God, everyone is alive.

I'm not damnationists!! HIS WORD SAYS WE ARE NOT IMMORTAL, IT IS A GIFT GIVEN TO US BY GOD.
Yes, we are alive, for now,. while we are alive! The 1st death happens to all. The 2nd to the unrepentant.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Unfortunately, the only way to get to the afterlife is to be covered by the blood of Jesus!! That involves accepting His sovereignty, repenting from sin and overcoming while on earth!! At the very least---like the thief on the cross---repentance and acknowledgment of His divinity and supremacy before death!
You can not live through the fire of God without the blood of Jesus first! It destroys on contact without that blood! If you do not accept before you die---there is no 2nd chance to acquire it after death. The lake of fire does not remove sin---it destroys the sinner! It is the blood of Jesus that removes sin! So yes, everyone will have His fire---either you live with Him in that fire by His redeeming grace and blood---or you are destroyed by it.

Got to go---Hospice is due.

Again, consider First Corinthians 3:15 - "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." - KJV

Why do you speak against a clear statement in the Scriptures?

 

[Saint Steven]

That flame of God will destroy what is not protected by the blood. PERIOD!

Doesn't that mean that Jesus died to save us from the wrath of God?

 

[Saint Steven]

I'm not damnationists!! HIS WORD SAYS WE ARE NOT IMMORTAL, IT IS A GIFT GIVEN TO US BY GOD.
Yes, we are alive, for now,. while we are alive! The 1st death happens to all. The 2nd to the unrepentant.

You were claiming it wasn't biblical. I am saying that even Damnationists believe in the immortality of the soul. There can be no ECT without it.

 

[mmksparbud]

You agree that we can't earn salvation, and then explain how we earn it. - lol

Saint Steven said: ↑
Heaven is not something we EARN by our own righteousness. Period.

That is not earning it! It can not be earned. But it most certainly vcan be rejected. If you do not accept, repent and live with lkove for God and man---you will be ashes. It is not earning, it is the evidense of your love for God.

 

[Saint Steven]

I'm not damnationists!! HIS WORD SAYS WE ARE NOT IMMORTAL, IT IS A GIFT GIVEN TO US BY GOD.
Yes, we are alive, for now,. while we are alive! The 1st death happens to all. The 2nd to the unrepentant.

Luke 20:38
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

 

[Saint Steven]

That is not earning it! It can not be earned. But it most certainly vcan be rejected. If you do not accept, repent and live with lkove for God and man---you will be ashes. It is not earning, it is the evidense of your love for God.

There you go adding to the finished work of God AGAIN. When will you STOP ???

 

[mmksparbud]

Doesn't that mean that Jesus died to save us from the wrath of God?

Rom_13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Eph_5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Col_3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Jas_1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Rev_14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev_14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev_15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
Rev_15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
Rev_16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
Rev_16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev_19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

You can call it whatever you want. God has shown His love for us. We only exist because He loves us. His return has been delayed in order that more may be saved. Jesus died to show His love for us. He is offering us eternal life with Him because of that love, He will remake the earth to it's original beauty and splendor and even greater, He is building a mansion for you and you will inherit all He has---if that is not enough for you, then I'm sorry----He has done all He is going to do, the rest is up to you!

 

[mmksparbud]

There you go adding to the finished work of God AGAIN. When will you STOP ???

Hey---You do not want to do what He asks of You don't!! I will. He did everything for you and you are not willing to do anything for Him! Fine. We shall see soon what is to be. Goodbye!

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

• Second Council of Constantinople - 5th Ecumenical Council (553 A.D.)

CHURCH FATHERS: Second Council of Constantinople (A.D. 553)


The Anathemas of the Emperor Justinian Against Origen
_________________________________________________________________

9.
"If Anyone says or thinks that the punishment of demons and of impious men is only temporary, and will one day have an end, and that a restoration (ἀποκατάστασις) will take place of demons and of impious men, Let Him Be Anathema.

Anathema to Origen and to that Adamantius, who set forth these opinions together with his nefarious and execrable and Wicked Doctrine and to whomsoever there is who thinks thus, or defends these opinions, or in any way hereafter at any time shall presume to protect them."

.

 

[Oldmantook]

Hell dear friend. Prayerfully re-read REVELATION 22.

REVELATION 22:1-10 is in reference to JOHN receiving a vision of Heaven that God has prepared for the Saints who will reign with God. The prophecy is sealed but not yet it is soon to come to pass.

REVELATION 22:11-15 is in context to JESUS making the proclaimation after the vision is sealed up in v10 and then JESUS says [11] He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. [12], And, BEHOLD I COME QUICKLY AND MY REWARD IS WITH ME TO GIVE TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING AS HIS WORK SHALL BE.

Context here is AFTER THE VISION has been shut up of HEAVEN in REVELATION 22:1-10 which then goes on to describe the rewards of the saints and the wicked. The rewards for God's saint who keep His commandments *REVELATION 14:12 and REVELATION 22:14 and those of the wicked *REVELATION 22:12 and REVELATION 22:15.

As shown earlier the reward of the righteous saints are shown here...

REVELATION 22:14 [14], BLESSED ARE THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, THAT THEY MAY HAVE RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE, AND MAY ENTER IN THROUGH THE GATES INTO THE CITY.

Then the reward of the wicked here...

[15], FOR WITHOUT ARE DOGS, AND SORCERERS, AND FORNICATORS, AND MURDERERS, AND IDOLATERS, AND WHOEVER LOVES AND MAKES A LIE.

Context matter. You may have to prayerfull re-read REVELATION 22.

Hope this is helpful.

Your explanation still makes no sense based on your reply. You stated that Rev 22:1-10 is John's vision of what is to come. Thus vs.14 & 15 happen after the vision has been completed. As a result of that completed vision, the saints are rewarded and the wicked are punished as described in vs. 14 & 15.
The completed picture is that the saints are now living happily ever after in the new Jerusalem while the sinners outside the city, in the the lake of fire, are eternally condemned to either punishment or annihilation. So far, so good. However:

As proof you quote Rev 22:14:BLESSED ARE THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, THAT THEY MAY HAVE RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE, AND MAY ENTER IN THROUGH THE GATES INTO THE CITY.

The big problem is that that is not how the verse reads. It is an INACCURATE translation. Instead v.14 properly reads:
Blessed are those washing their robes, that their right will be to the tree of life, and they shall enter into the city by the gates. (BLB) As I wrote earlier pay attention to the participle and verb tenses.
You have stated that the vision is completed and consequently the saints have received their reward and already dwell in the new Jerusalem. How then can v.14 be descriptive of the saints? The prophecy has been fulfilled. The saints are already in the city while the sinners in the LOF are at the same time outside the city. The saints have already kept the commands and their faith in Jesus per Rev 14:12. They have washed their robes. Thus the saints cannot be the ones being referred to in v.14. The only group yet having to wash their robes/do the commandments are those in the LOF; thus v.14 refers to them and them alone. Do you care to explain why you use an inaccurate English translation to justify your belief?