THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF UNIVERSALISM - BEWARE!

[Saint Steven]

I really can’t hear you until you see those shape shifting fairy tales for what they are. No offense, but no compromise.

You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord’s table and of the table of demons. (1 Corinthians 10:21, NKJV)

What are you accusing @FineLinen of?
Drinking the cup of demons? Partaking of the table of demons?

I think you owe him an apology. What a horrible thing to post.
We have some standards we are held to here. And for good reason.

 

[Saint Steven]

You both have claimed God has failed

Post the exact quotations with post numbers please.
Or stop making false accusations. Your choice.

 

[Saint Steven]

I never said Jesus came to save us from God!!! What trash! I said He came to free us, save us from sin. And that He will do. He predicted the crucifixion of His Son, have you not read any if Isaiah either? His word is truth. You should try reading it sometime.

Not in so few words, no... Correct me if I misunderstood, but you seem to be saying that unless Jesus saves us from the wrath of God we will be incinerated. True or false?

And why do you continue to pretend that we have not read the Bible? Yours is NOT the sole interpretation. As a SDA, you should be painfully aware of that. Right?

 

[mmksparbud]

Not in so few words, no... Correct me if I misunderstood, but you seem to be saying that unless Jesus saves us from the wrath of God we will be incinerated. True or false?

And why do you continue to pretend that we have not read the Bible? Yours is NOT the sole interpretation. As a SDA, you should be painfully aware of that. Right?

As I said, you seem to haver very little knowledge of what the bible says---you stick to thingss that revolve around only this concept---annihilationism nor damnation say that God is a failure---that is what you are saying

If God wanted everyone to have salvation, then according to your own belief, He failed.

Both Damnationism and Annihilationism conclude that the plan of God failed. However, they blame this on created humanity rather than on the creator. Blame the victims of the plan, rather than the planner.

Again, it is obvious that you have no knowledge of the entire word of God. God has predicted everything and it has happened as He said, including His crucifixion. How does that add up to Him failing? He knew from the foundation of the world that Christ was going to die for the sins of the world, He knew there would be those who would reject His son. How is that failing? It isn't. He will have a world, a universe without sin---that is it. Sin will not arise a second time--

Nah_1:9 What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.

Sin will be blotted out---that is the reason for the Son of God to give up His life, to cleans us from sin. You take that totally away and say that sinners will be saved without His blood of forgiveness---Again---then He need never have come and died for us. You made His sacrifice of no value. We can essentially save ourselves from the price of sin, we just have to spend a little time in the lake of fire, then say we have accepted Christ and we get eternal life with Him! That doesn't end sin. The heart has not been converted, they have not repented---sin still reigns. God said sin will be destroyed, and that is exactly what He will do. Overcoming sin is, apparently, not what universalism is about---it's about coming out of the lake of fire. No unrepentant sinner can be saved. You do not want to have to repent---God says you do. We overcome sin in this world through the power of Jesus. We overcome before we die---this is not something that is negotiable, we are to put to death the "old man". That is the power of Jesus it is greater than the power of sin, to those who believe in His power to save us from sin. That is not what universalism teaches. It teaches you need not overcome sin, in fact you can't, so it doesn't matter, a little time in the lake of fire will take care of that. Hogwash! It's too bad you have to take others with you.

 

[Saint Steven]

As I said, you seem to haver very little kno9wledge of what the bible says---you stick to thinks that revolve around only this concept---annihilationism nor damnation say that God is a failure---that is what you are saying

Clearly Annihilationism and Damnation "say" (maintain) that God is a failure in reference to God's desire that everyone be saved. Only Universal Restoration maintains that God succeeds in his desire to save all of humankind.

 

[Saint Steven]

Again, it is obvious that you have no knowledge of the entire word of God.

Based on what? That you and I are in disagreement?

 

[mmksparbud]

Not in so few words, no... Correct me if I misunderstood, but you seem to be saying that unless Jesus saves us from the wrath of God we will be incinerated. True or false?

And why do you continue to pretend that we have not read the Bible? Yours is NOT the sole interpretation. As a SDA, you should be painfully aware of that. Right?

By their fruits you shall know them. Your fruits have shown that you know only the God of universalism, not the God of the bible. I'm not pretending anything. Not a matter of interpretation, it's a matter of salvation. To say that we can be saved without the blood of Jesus, by merely spending some time in the lake of fire is leading others to end up there as ashes. It is Jesus that saves us from SIN! Remember that word? It is the reason for the death of Jesus. If His death is not accepted as payment for our sins and we live our lives according to His will on this earth---there is no 2nd chance! Jesus is the only way to be saved---period! Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

 

[Saint Steven]

He will have a world, a universe without sin---

By incinerating countless billions?
Because he loves us and has our best interests at heart?
How does that work on any level?

Why doesn't he teach us to incinerate our enemies?
Wouldn't that be godly behavior from your perspective?

 

[mmksparbud]

Clearly Annihilationism and Damnation "say" (maintain) that God is a failure in reference to God's desire that everyone be saved. Only Universal Restoration maintains that God succeeds in his desire to save all of humankind.

Again, universalism claims we can be saved without the blood of Jesus---just a little time spend in the lake of fire! Jesus died for our sins, that is what His death is for---the death of sin. If you do not want His righteousness, you can not be saved. That is not the failure of God but the failure of man to submit. And you can be the reason for some person to be lost thinking he can just spend some time in the lake of fire and still be saved! That is not God succeeding to save, it is sin overcoming the sinner, instead of the sinner overcoming sin through the power of Jesus!

 

[Saint Steven]

That is not what universalism teaches. It teaches you need not overcome sin, in fact you can't, so it doesn't matter, a little time in the lake of fire will take care of that.

We cannot be saved on our own merit. Why do you pretend that we can.
Didn't you ask me why Christ died for our sins? (maybe that was Jack) Too many posts going on here.

If salvation is based on our own merit, how do you measure such things?
Could you have done more? (of course) Was it enough? (who knows?)

When salvation is based on the FINISHED work of the atonement, that is ENOUGH and it is completely measurable.

 

[mmksparbud]

By incinerating countless billions?
Because he loves us and has our best interests at heart?
How does that work on any level?

Why doesn't he teach us to incinerate our enemies?
Wouldn't that be godly behavior from your perspective?

They all have free will. If they do not want the righteousness oif Jesus to cover their sins, then He will not do it. A walk through the lake oif fire does not change an unrepentant heart. They are filthy still! It is called God's strange act. It is what must be done to irradicate sin from this universe. They do not have to die--but they would rather die than to submit to the will of God and oversome their sins through the power of Jesus. |This is not my oerspective! This is what God says will be the end result of unrepentance!

 

[Saint Steven]

Again, universalism claims we can be saved without the blood of Jesus

That is false understanding of Universal Restoration.
Universal Restoration is COMPLETELY dependent on "the blood of Jesus".

 

[Saint Steven]

Again, universalism claims we can be saved without the blood of Jesus---just a little time spend in the lake of fire! Jesus died for our sins, that is what His death is for---the death of sin. If you do not want His righteousness, you can not be saved. That is not the failure of God but the failure of man to submit. And you can be the reason for some person to be lost thinking he can just spend some time in the lake of fire and still be saved! That is not God succeeding to save, it is sin overcoming the sinner, instead of the sinner overcoming sin through the power of Jesus!

Heaven is not something we EARN by our own righteousness. Period.

 

[mmksparbud]

We cannot be saved on our own merit. Why do you pretend that we can.
Didn't you ask me why Christ died for our sins? (maybe that was Jack) Too many posts going on here.

If salvation is based on our own merit, how do you measure such things?
Could you have done more? (of course) Was it enough? (who knows?)

When salvation is based on the FINISHED work of the atonement, that is ENOUGH and it is completely measurable.

I am not pretending we can---universalism says so!! Just a walk through the lake of fire and our are cleansed of sin---therefore---Jesus was never needed, just the lake of fire according to you! JESUS IS WHAT SAVES! WE EITHER SUBMIT, REPANT AND OVERCOME THROUGH HIM, OR THE LAKE OF FIRE WILL DO IT'S JOB AND REMOVE THE SINNER DOWN TO ASHES. THEIR CHOICE.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Again, universalism claims we can be saved without the blood of Jesus---just a little time spend in the lake of fire! Jesus died for our sins, that is what His death is for---the death of sin. If you do not want His righteousness, you can not be saved. That is not the failure of God but the failure of man to submit. And you can be the reason for some person to be lost thinking he can just spend some time in the lake of fire and still be saved! That is not God succeeding to save, it is sin overcoming the sinner, instead of the sinner overcoming sin through the power of Jesus!

You are setting up another strawman - it is the shed blood of Jesus the Christ which makes possible the salvation of the lost by way of the Lake of Fire.

Tell me, is Jesus the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world...or not? If He was, did He take it all away...or just some?

 

[Saint Steven]

A walk through the lake oif fire does not change an unrepentant heart.

Seriously?

"Hmm... unless I change, I will be stuck here for all of eternity. ... What to do, what to do...????"

 

[Lazarus Short]

I am not pretending we can---universalism says so!! Just a walk through the lake of fire and our are cleansed of sin---therefore---Jesus was never needed, just the lake of fire according to you! JESUS IS WHAT SAVES! WE EITHER SUBMIT, REPANT AND OVERCOME THROUGH HIM, OR THE LAKE OF FIRE WILL DO IT'S JOB AND REMOVE THE SINNER DOWN TO ASHES. THEIR CHOICE.

The cleansing of the Lake of Fire is an act of God - something done to us, rather than a work on our part. It is, in the end, not so different from the cleansing we experience in the here-and-now, as God instructs us and purifies us.

 

[mmksparbud]

That is false understanding of Universal Restoration.
Universal Restoration is COMPLETELY dependent on "the blood of Jesus".

No it is not!! That is a cover up. All sinners, including Satan, Hitler and the like will go to the lake of fire and come out cleaned of sin---Jesus is not involved in this! There is no repentance of sin, no living our lives in accordance to God's will, no love for God needed---just a walk through the fire. It is you who say it. When pointed out all you can say is we have a wrong understanding of universalism, but never a statement as to how we are wrong! It's what evolutionist's do! They will say how little we understand evolution, but never state how we are misunderstanding it.

 

[mmksparbud]

Seriously?

"Hmm... unless I change, I will be stuck here for all of eternity. ... What to do, what to do...????"

No---we are not immortal!! God alone is immortal. We are given immortality as a gift from God when we are saved.

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Not even Adam and Eve had immortality---
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Only the saved are given eternal life, you will not find one verse stating the lost get eternal life.
You will not be spending eternity anywhere---you will end up ashes.

 

[mmksparbud]

The cleansing of the Lake of Fire is an act of God - something done to us, rather than a work on our part. It is, in the end, not so different from the cleansing we experience in the here-and-now, as God instructs us and purifies us.

Yes---it destroys what is not covered with the blood of Jesus! Only the saved are protected by His blood. The unrepentant are not covered and are destroyed in that flame.