THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF UNIVERSALISM - BEWARE!

[Shrewd Manager]

Well what a pleasant surprise. Someone who reads and beleives Gods' Word. Thanks BrotherD nice to see someone who read God's Word again. All I am normally getting here is mostly cut and paste, twisted scriptures from the teachings of the gambling lady of second chances. Sadly nothing biblical.

God bless dear friend thanks for sharing.

The gambling lady of second chances? You have the boot on the wrong foot and the tiger by the tail there, my friend. There's no gambling in God's absolute guaranteed victory. Only eternal security.

Rather, the god of gamblers shines the artificial light his counterfeit visage on the leaven of the Pharisees.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The gambling lady of second chances? You have the boot on the wrong foot and the tiger by the tail there, my friend. There's no gambling in God's absolute guaranteed victory. Only eternal security. Rather, the god of gamblers shines the artificial light his counterfeit visage on the leaven of the Pharisees.

No, no dear friend not at all. I was referring to the false teaching of UNIVERSALISM that the unrepentant wicked get a second chance at eternal life after the second coming as the teaching is not biblical. That is why it is a gambling lady to those who believe in this teaching. There is no second chances for the unrepentant wicked after the second coming. There is only destruction and the second death. No more life. This teachings makes a mockery of the death of JESUS and counts the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of Gods' grace *HEBREWS 10:26-31.

Hope this helps.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

No, no dear friend not at all. I was referring to the false teaching of UNIVERSALISM that the unrepentant wicked get a second chance at eternal life after the second coming. That is why it is a gambling lady. As there is no second chances for the unrepentant wicked after the second coming. There is only destruction and the second death. No more life.

Hope this helps.

I'm sorry my friend, but you err greatly. The wicked do not get a second chance. There is only one destiny for them - salvation. And to be saved their wickedness needs to be destroyed, and that is achieved by purifying them of sin and death in the LoF (Rev 21:8, 21:24) and healing them with the leaves of the tree of life (Rev 22:2).

The new man in Christ emerges from the fire repentant, the wicked old man is forgotten.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I'm sorry my friend, but you err greatly. The wicked do not get a second chance. There is only one destiny for them - salvation. And to be saved their wickedness needs to be destroyed, and that is achieved by purifying them of sin and death in the LoF (Rev 21:8, 21:24) and healing them with the leaves of the tree of life (Rev 22:2).

The new man in Christ emerges from the fire repentant, the wicked old man is forgotten.

No no not at all dear friend, your confused. The unrepentant wicked are destroyed because they are unrepentant and wicked. There is no scripture that says that the unrepentant wicked receive eternal life after the second coming. Here we are now in this thread 97 pages and 1924 posts latter and not a single scripture from those who believe in the gambling lady of second chances to show that the unrepentant wicked after the second coming receive eternal life. Maybe you can break the drought?

Now please show me from the scriptures where does it say that the unrepentant wicked after the second coming receive everlasting life when God's Word alone says...

1. The unrepentant wicked do not receive eternal life *JOHN 3:36
2. The unrepentant wicked are destroyed after the second coming *2 THESSALONIANS 1:9
3. The unrepentant wicked partake of the second resurrection of condemnation *JOHN 5:28-29
4. The unrepentant wicked in the second resurrection of condemnation partake of the second death in the Lake of fire *REVELATION 20:6; REVELATION 21:7-8.
5. The unrepentant wicked are devoured (consumed) with fiery indignation *HEBREWS 10:26-31
6. The unrepentnat wicked receive Gods' vengence of destruction *2 THESSALONIANS 1:9
7. There is no more resurrections after the second death and no more death.

Sorry dear friend, it seems God's Word disagrees with you.

For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over teachings and traditions of men that lead us away from the Word of God.

Hope this helps.

 

[FineLinen]

All I am normally getting here is mostly cut and paste, twisted scriptures from the teachings of the gambling lady of second chances.

Then just stop placing twisted scriptures from your teachings before us.

Think what silliness you have just posted.

"All I am normally getting here is mostly cut and paste, twisted scriptures from the teachings of the gambling lady of second chances."

"God is always bigger than the boxes we build for God, so we should not waste too much time protecting the boxes." -Richard Rohr-

 

[Shrewd Manager]

No no not at all dear friend, your confused. There is no scripture that says that the unrepentant wicked receive eternal life after the second coming.

I agree. You're still thrashing a dead strawhorse here my friend. I'll say it as clearly as I can: ALL WILL COME TO REPENTANCE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE DIVINE WILL. (1 Tim 2:4)

1. The unrepentant wicked do not receive eternal life *JOHN 3:36
2. The unrepentant wicked are destroyed after the second coming *2 THESSALONIANS 1:9
3. The unrepentant wicked partake of the second resurrection of condemnation *JOHN 5:28-29
4. The unrepentant wicked in the second resurrection of condemnation partake of the second death in the Lake of fire *REVELATION 20:6; REVELATION 21:7-8.
5. The unrepentant wicked are devoured (consumed) with fiery indignation *HEBREWS 10:26-31
6. The unrepentnat wicked receive Gods' vengence of destruction *2 THESSALONIANS 1:9
7. There is no more resurrections after the second death and no more death.

I agree with all save item 7.

The nations are devoured by fire in Rev 20:9, and cast into the fire as unbelievers in Rev 20:15 and 21:8, yet RETURN REPENTANT in Rev 21:24, according to the promise that ALL Nations will worship in Rev 15:4. Now how do you account for that, my man?

Sorry dear friend, it seems God's Word disagrees with you.

Au contraire my friend, by the grace of God I am able to harmonise the apparent damnation, annihilation and restoration scriptures in a way that gives God the glory.

For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the false teachings of Universalism.

I'm afraid you can only write off universalism by denying the scriptures and the power of God. But we affirm the will of God over and above the myopia of fallen man.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Then just stop placing twisted scriptures from your teachings before us.

Think what silliness you have just posted.

"All I am normally getting here is mostly cut and paste, twisted scriptures from the teachings of the gambling lady of second chances."

"God is always bigger than the boxes we build for God, so we should not waste too much time protecting the boxes." -Richard Rohr-

Sorry dear fine it is the gambling lady of second chances from Universalism that is providing the twisted scriptures as shown throughout this thread. God's Word (the scriptures) shared with you is a light that shows the way but it seems men love darkness rather than light when it comes to evil deeds of the unrepentant wicked after the second coming. There is no chances after JESUS returns dear friend. Time to leave the gambling lady of second chances.

 

[FineLinen]

Sorry dear fine it is the gambling lady of second chances from Universalism that is providing the twisted scriptures as shown throughout this thread.

Yup!

"God is always bigger than the boxes we build for God, so we should not waste too much time protecting the boxes." -Richard Rohr-

 

[ClementofA]

God does destroy the wicked my friend. Remeber scripture says he can destroy body and soul:

Matthew 10:28 KJV — And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ask yourself this, will the most wicked and cruel men to ever walk this earth get a chance to make it in heaven without repentance?

In the book of Daniel King Nebuchadnezzar lost his soul when God made him act insanely like an animal for 7 years. God's destruction/ruining of the kings' soul meant the loss of his soul for the king.

Likewise the prodigal son "lost" (same Greek word as "destroyed" in Mt.10:28) his soul when he left his father for the world. Later when he "came back to his senses", he "found" his soul. His Father said his son was "dead" and "lost" (i.e. destroyed). Though he was obviously never annihilated.

How is it that God is "able" to destroy body & soul in Gehenna. Supposedly if angels cast people into it, that in itself could destroy their mortal bodies, due to the fires in Gehenna. But how would literal fire destroy a non corporeal soul? If Satan & demons are there to possess people, just casting them into Gehenna could result in them being spiritually & psychologically destroyed/ruined in a multitude of ways we cannot even imagine, e.g. demon possession. I'm sure that experienced shrinks have a bit of an idea of what that might involve. Or deliverance ministers/exorcists.

Not only is God "able" to destroy [or ruin, lose] both body and soul...Jesus followers are told they must destroy their own souls to "find" them:

Mt.10:39 He who is finding his soul will be destroying it, and he who destroys his soul on My account will be finding it. clv

Mt.10:28 And do not fear those who are killing the body, yet are not able to kill the soul. Yet be fearing Him, rather, Who is able to destroy the soul as well as the body in Gehenna.

Others can kill your body, but not your soul. God can destroy soul and body in Gehenna. v.28

You can destroy your own soul. v.39...that is, ruin it.

By speaking of destroying your own soul, v.39 refers not to endless annihilation of your soul. So, in context, neither does verse 28 when God speaks of destroying a soul.

If you don't willingly destroy your soul (v.39) in this life, God will/is able to do it for you in the afterlife (v.28). But whether He does it for you or not, you will surely destroy your own soul by "finding" it (v.39) in this life. Since you destroy [but not annihilate] your own soul by finding it, why would God need to destroy it again, even though He is "able"? Though it is conceivable He could destroy it to a greater degree than it was destroyed before. Especially if people in Gehenna continued to rebel and harden themselves...cf Lk.11:26; Mt.12:45...7 times worse can occur. Scripture speaks of evil men shall becoming worse and worse, of the deep things of satan some have known, being possessed with a legion of demons, & few and many stripes (Lk.12:47-48).

What does it mean that God "can" ruin or destroy a soul in Gehenna? Would this be ruin as in cessation of existence or something like a spiritual death as in, for example, dead in sins (Eph.2:1)? Or as in what God did to the king in the book of Daniel in making him act like an animal for 7 years, before returning his soul back to sanity, resulting in him being humbled & worshiping God? Or, as in being delivered to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme (1 Tim.1:20)? BTW, Satan will be there in the LOF with human blasphemers.

Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme (1 Tim.1:20).

Even in this life one can be delivered to Satan for destruction that one may be saved:

1 Cor.5:5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

Of course the spiritually dead are already dead in sins. But this does not preclude there being various degrees of spiritual deadness or destruction (i.e. ruin) of their souls. Similarly the Scriptures speak of those who are worthy of few stripes & others who are worthy of many stripes, & similarly. Surely a distinction is to be made between a relatively innocent infant or child, a rebellious teenager & those who have apostacized from the faith, or demons & Satan. It is conceivable that it is always possible for the spiritually dead to experience greater degrees of destruction to their souls should they continue to rebel in the LOF and until they finally repent. Though, ever given the choice to turn to God, it is mathematically impossible that they would continue to reject God for eternity.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

A building that is "destroyed" is not annihilated forever or even annihilated. It is ruined. Then it can be rebuilt, restored or repaired. Like the fixing of a car engine:

"When shopping for a used car, one of the kinds of vehicles that buyers may come across is rebuilt cars. While there are slight variations from state to state, rebuilt cars are cars that have been, through accident or other means, totaled and repaired or rebuilt from the ground up."

As to the meaning of the word "destroy", Websters' first definition is "ruin" and second definition is to "put out of existence":

Definition of DESTROY

A common definition of "destroy":

"ruin (someone) emotionally or spiritually.
"he has been determined to destroy her" "

The same Greek word at Mt.10:28 for "destroy" is used of the "lost" [destroyed, ruined, damaged] prodigal son who was later found, who was said to be dead, but later became alive.

The same Greek word is used later in Mt.10:

Mt.10:39 He who is finding his soul will be destroying it, and he who destroys his soul on My account will be finding it. clv

By speaking of "destroying" our own "soul" [v.39] did Jesus mean we could annihilate it out of existence? Evidently not. So why should we think He meant annihilation of the soul earlier in the context [v.28] when speaking of the exact same thing, i.e. a soul being destroyed?

A passage in Matthew that has been interpreted as speaking of the possibility of release from "hell" (Gehenna) is:

Matt 5:25-26 . .Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

This is spoken of by Jesus in the context of references to Gehenna, both before and after this passage.

Mt.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon...
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Furthermore, the context of Matthew 5:25-26, both before & after those 2 verses, is making references to Gehenna. Verses 21-26 have to do with anger & being reconciled & v.22 warns of Gehenna. In verses 27-30 the subject is adultery & v.30 warns regarding Gehenna.

Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

"They must pay (as GMac says) the uttermost farthing -- which is to say, they must tender the forgiveness of their brethren that is owed, the repentance and sorrow for sin that is owed, etc. Otherwise they do stay in prison with the tormenters. (their guilt? their hate? their own filthiness?) At last resort, if they still refuse to let go that nasty pet they've been stroking, they must even suffer the outer darkness. God will remove Himself from them to the extent that He can do so without causing their existence to cease. As Tom Talbot points out so well, no sane person of free will (and the child must be sane and informed to have freedom) could possibly choose ultimate horror over ultimate delight throughout the unending ages." Why affirm belief in Hell?

Matthew was probably written to Jews & in the opening chapter of this book he told his readers that Jesus shall save His people from their sins (1:21), i.e. His people Israel (2:6). I take that to include people like Judas Iscariot & wicked Pharisees who died in their sins. But lest anyone think that is a licence to live sinfully, Jesus gives warnings such as those in Mt.10:28.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ No no not at all dear friend, your confused. There is no scripture that says that the unrepentant wicked receive eternal life after the second coming.

Your response here...

I agree. You're still thrashing a dead strawhorse here my friend. I'll say it as clearly as I can: ALL WILL COME TO REPENTANCE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE DIVINE WILL. (1 Tim 2:4)

If you agree that there is no scripture that says that the unrepentant wicked receive everlasting life after the second coming then why are you do you believe that the unrepentant wicked receive eternal life after the second coming when the scriptures say that the unrepentant wicked after the second coming are destroyed in the lake of fire receiving the second death of Gods vengence *JOHN 3:36; 2 THESSALONIANS 1:9; JOHN 5:28-29; REVELATION 20:6; REVELATION 21:7-8; HEBREWS 10:26-312. UNIVERSALISM teaches the opposite of the bible.

..............

BTW The GREEK of 1 TIMOTHY 2:4 says...
ὃς πάντας ἀνθρώπους θέλει σωθῆναι καὶ εἰς ἐπίγνωσιν ἀληθείας ἐλθεῖν.
"WHO ALL MEN DESIRES (θέλει) TO BE SAVED AND COME TO KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH TO COME"

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
desire, be disposed toward, intend Thel'-o or thel'-o or in certain tenses theleo thel-eh'-o, and etheleo eth-el-eh'-o, which are otherwise obsolete; apparently strengthened from the alternate form of haireomai; to determine (as an active option from subjective impulse; whereas boulomai properly denotes rather a passive acquiescence in objective considerations), i.e. Choose or prefer (literally or figuratively); by implication, to wish, i.e. Be inclined to (sometimes adverbially, gladly); impersonally for the future tense, to be about to; by Hebraism, to delight in -- desire, be disposed (forward), intend, list, love, mean, please, have rather, (be) will (have, -ling, - ling(-ly)).

Strong's Concordance
theló: to will, wish Original Word: θέλω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: theló
Phonetic Spelling: ( eth-el'-o,) Definition: to will, wish Usage: I will, wish, desire, am willing, intend, design.

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 2309 thélō (a primitive verb, NAS dictionary) – to desire (wish, will), wanting what is best (optimal) because someone is ready and willing to act.
2309 /thélō ("to desire, wish") is commonly used of the Lord extending His "best-offer" to the believer – wanting (desiring) to birth His persuasion (faith) in them which also empowers, manifests His presence etc. See 2307 (thelēma). [Note the close connection between faith (4102 /pístis, "God's inbirthed persuasion") and this root (thel-, 2307 /thélēma); cf. 2 Cor 8:5-7 and Heb 10:36-39).]

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. verb
Definition to will, wish
NASB Translation; am...willing (1), am willing (3), delighting (1), delights (1), desire (14), desired (4), desires (4), desiring (2), intended (1), intending (1), like (3), maintain (1), mean (1), mean* (2), please (1), purposed (1), refused* (1), unwilling* (11), want (52), wanted (15), wanting (3), wants (8), will (5), willed (1), willing (15), wills (4), wish (24), wished (7), wishes (16), wishing (4), would (1).

...............

PARALLEL TRANSLATIONS 1 TIMOTHY 2:4

New International Version
who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

New Living Translation
who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.

English Standard Version
who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Berean Study Bible
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Berean Literal Bible
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

New American Standard Bible
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

New King James Version
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

King James Bible
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Christian Standard Bible
who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Contemporary English Version
God wants everyone to be saved and to know the whole truth, which is,

Good News Translation
who wants everyone to be saved and to come to know the truth.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

International Standard Version
who wants all people to be saved and to come to know the truth fully.

NET Bible
since he wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

New Heart English Bible
who desires all people to be saved and come to full knowledge of the truth.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
He who wills that all people shall have Life, and shall be converted to the knowledge of the truth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
He wants all people to be saved and to learn the truth.

New American Standard 1977
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

King James 2000 Bible
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

American King James Version
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

American Standard Version
who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Darby Bible Translation
who desires that all men should be saved and come to [the] knowledge of [the] truth.

English Revised Version
who willeth that all men should be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Webster's Bible Translation
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Weymouth New Testament
who is willing for all mankind to be saved and come to a full knowledge of the truth.

World English Bible
who desires all people to be saved and come to full knowledge of the truth.

Young's Literal Translation
who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;

............

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Who will have all men to be saved - That is, it is in accordance with his nature, his feelings, his desires. The word "will" cannot be taken here in the absolute sense, denoting a decree like that by which he willed the creation of the world, for then it would certainly be done. But the word is often used to denote a desire, wish, or what is in accordance with the nature of anyone. Thus it may be said of God that he "wills" that his creatures may be happy - because it is in accordance with his nature, and because he has made abundant provision for their happiness - though it is not true that he wills it in the sense that he exerts his absolute power to make them happy. God wills that sickness should be relieved, and sorrow mitigated, and that the oppressed should go free, because it is agreeable to his nature; though it is not true that he wills it in the sense that he exerts his absolute power to produce it. A parent wills the welfare of his child. It is in accordance with his nature, his feelings, his desires; and he makes every needful arrangement for it. If the child is not virtuous and happy, it is his own fault. So God wills that all people should be saved. It would be in accordance with his benevolent nature. He has made ample provision for it. He uses all proper means to secure their salvation. He uses no positive means to prevent it, and if they are not saved it will be their own fault. For places in the New Testament where the word here translated "will" (θέλω thelō), means to desire or wish, see Luke 8:20; Luke 23:8; John 16:19; Galatians 4:20; Mark 7:24; 1 Corinthians 7:7; 1 Corinthians 11:3; 1 Corinthians 14:5; Matthew 15:28. This passage cannot mean, as many have supposed, that God wills that all kinds of people should be saved, or that some sinners of every rank and class may be saved, because:
(1) the natural and obvious interpretation of the language is opposed to such a sense. The language expresses the desire that "all men" should be saved, and we should not depart from the obvious sense of a passage unless necessity requires it.

(2) prayer and thanksgiving 1 Timothy 2:1 are directed to be offered, not for some of all ranks and conditions, but for all mankind. No exception is made, and no direction is given that we should exclude any of the race from the expressions of our sympathy, and from an interest in our supplications. The reason given here for that prayer is, that God desires that all people should be saved. But how could this be a reason for praying for all, if it means that God desired only the salvation of some of all ranks?

(3) in 1 Timothy 2:5-6 the apostle gives reasons showing that God wished the salvation of all people, and those reasons are such as to prove that the language here is to be taken in the most unlimited sense. Those reasons are:

(a) that there is one God over all, and one Mediator between God and people - showing that God is the Father of all, and has the same interest in all; and,

(b) that Christ gave himself a ransom for all - showing that God desired their salvation.

This verse proves:

(1) that salvation is provided for all - for if God wished all people to be saved, he would undoubtedly make provision for their salvation; and if he had not made such provision, it could not be said that he desired their salvation, since no one can doubt that he has power to provide for the salvation of all;

(2) that salvation should be offered to all people - for if God desires it, it is right for his ministers to announce that desire, and if he desires it, it is not proper for them to announce anything contrary to this;

(3) that people are to blame if they are not saved.

If God did not wish their salvation, and if he had made no provision for it, they could not be to blame if they rejected the gospel. If God wishes it, and has made provision for it, and they are not saved, the sin must be their own - and it is a great sin, for there is no greater crime which a man can commit than to destroy his own soul, and to make himself the eternal enemy of his Maker.

And to come unto the knowledge of the truth - The truth which God has revealed; the "truth as it is in Jesus." notes, Ephesians 4:21.

..............

CONCLUSION: 1 TIMOTHY 2:4 does not teach that ALL MEN WILL BE SAVED as your trying to interpret the scriptures. It teaches that God wants and desires all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of God's truth and to repent and turn away from sin and accpet the free gift of God's dear son. Salvation according to the scriptures is conditional on faith, repentance and following Gods' Word *ROMANS 14:23; JOHN 3:16-21; ACTS OF THE APOSTLES 2:38

Sorry dear friend it seem like God's Word disagrees with you.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Now please show me from the scriptures where does it say that the unrepentant wicked after the second coming receive everlasting life when God's Word alone says...

1. The unrepentant wicked do not receive eternal life *JOHN 3:36
2. The unrepentant wicked are destroyed after the second coming *2 THESSALONIANS 1:9
3. The unrepentant wicked partake of the second resurrection of condemnation *JOHN 5:28-29
4. The unrepentant wicked in the second resurrection of condemnation partake of the second death in the Lake of fire *REVELATION 20:6; REVELATION 21:7-8.
5. The unrepentant wicked are devoured (consumed) with fiery indignation *HEBREWS 10:26-31
6. The unrepentnat wicked receive Gods' vengence of destruction *2 THESSALONIANS 1:9
7. There is no more resurrections after the second death and no more death.

Sorry dear friend, it seems God's Word disagrees with you.

Your response here...

I agree with all save item 7.

Ok so if you believe all of the above then you believe

1. The unrepentant wicked do not receive eternal life *JOHN 3:36
2. The unrepentant wicked are destroyed after the second coming *2 THESSALONIANS 1:9
3. The unrepentant wicked partake of the second resurrection of condemnation *JOHN 5:28-29
4. The unrepentant wicked in the second resurrection of condemnation partake of the second death in the Lake of fire *REVELATION 20:6; REVELATION 21:7-8.
5. The unrepentant wicked are devoured (consumed) with fiery indignation *HEBREWS 10:26-31
6. The unrepentnat wicked receive Gods' vengence of destruction *2 THESSALONIANS 1:9

Your contradicting yourself and your statement is not true. How can you say here that you believe that the unrepentant wicked after the second coming do not receive eternal life and in the next breath say that the unrepentant wicked receive eternal life after the second coming?

The nations are devoured by fire in Rev 20:9, and cast into the fire as unbelievers in Rev 20:15 and 21:8, yet RETURN REPENTANT in Rev 21:24, according to the promise that ALL Nations will worship in Rev 15:4. Now how do you account for that, my man?

REVELATION 20 is in regards to the saved (first resurrection) *JOHN 5:28-29; 2 THESSALONIANS 4:16-17; REVELATION 20:6 and the unsaved unrepentant wicked *REVELATION 20:7-15; REVELATION 21:7-8 who are outside of the city of the saved *REVELATION 20:7-15; REVELATION 22:14-15.

REVELATION 21:24 is the nations of the saved not the unsaved...
[24], And the nations of them WHICH ARE SAVED shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honor into it.

Sorry dear friend it seems like God's Word disagrees with you.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[BrotherD]

The God of UN (limited) has power to do exactly as He pleases. The question is what is the object of destruction by the Father of all fathers?

Olethron destruction points to an unchangeable, irremediable, and endless condition.

If this be true, if olethros is extinction, then this teaches the annihilation of the wicked, in which case the adjective aionios is superfluous, since extinction is final, and excludes the idea of duration.

But olethros does not always mean destruction or extinction.

Take the kindred verb apollumi to destroy, put an end to, or in the middle voice, to be lost, to perish. Peter says “the world being deluged with water, perished (apoleto, 2 Pet. 3:6); but the world did not become extinct, it was renewed.

In Heb. 1:11,12, from Psl. 102, we read concerning the heavens and the earth as compared with the eternity of God, “they shall perish” (apolountai). But the perishing is only preparatory to change and renewal. “They shall be changed” (allagesontai).

Compare Isa. 51:6,16; 65:22; 2 Pet. 3:13; Rev. 21:1. Similarly, “the Son of man came to save that which was lost” (apololos), Luke 19:10.

Jesus charged his apostles to go to the lost (apololota) sheep of the house of Israel, Matt. 10:6, compare 15:24, “He that shall lose (apolese) his life for my sake shall find it,” Matt. 16:25. Compare Luke 15:6,9,32. -Dr. Marvin Vincent-

This is true the Lord can save anyone ad long as they are WANT to he saved. It is true Jesus goes after those who are lost, but you can harden your heart as Pharaoh did and lose your life. It is true that when the Lord purge the earth with fire it will not be destroyed out of existence but be renewed.

But the second death is just that, death, to cease to exist and to be as though they are not. God is just and will not allow any unrepentant sinner to enter into heaven. We all are to build the character for heaven here and now, with the help of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ClementofA]

CONCLUSION: 1 TIMOTHY 2:4 does not teach that ALL MEN WILL BE SAVED as your trying to interpret the scriptures. It teaches that God wants and desires all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of God's truth and to repent and turn away from sin and accpet the free gift of God's dear son.

"Premise 1: God desires all be saved. (e.g., 1 Timothy 2:4: "[God] who desires (thelo) all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.")

Premise 2: God accomplishes all He desires. (e.g., Isaiah 55:11: "So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire (thelo, from the Septuagint), And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.")

Conclusion: All will be saved."

God is the "Saviour of all" (1 Tim.4:10). He is also the "Judge of all". Will He judge all, or just some?

A Judge judges. A Saviour saves. The Judge of all will judge all. The Saviour of all will save all.

Jesus takes away the sin of the world (Jn.1:29). What happens to those in the lake of fire after Jesus takes away their sin?

*****************************************************************


I destroyed all your "proof texts" against universalism showing they failed as such "proof texts". That's why your quoted verses are so lame. If Scripture actually taught the endless tortures or endless annihilation doctrine, why isn't it being shouted in the most clear language repeatedly from Genesis to Revelation. Such doctrines are a joke.

Yet another lame, feeble, failing attempt to support your theology. Nothing there states there are no more chances after the second coming. Nothing there states the Love of Love Crucified the Omnipotent has expired like a carton of milk & the Almighty is powerless to save. Nothing states Love unending will hold grudges, bitterness and hate against anyone for all eternity, as your theology would have us believe.

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

75 UR verses + 100 proofs + 150 reasons etc:
Web Online Help

213 Questions Without Answers:
Questions Without Answers

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?

"You are fully, completely, and thoroughly adored by God."
"You are fully, completely, and thoroughly adored by God."

May the Lord keep, bless & heal you.

 

[BrotherD]

I surmise you take the OT-type view which involves lurid en masse demise, a la mass drownings, fiery serpent poisonings, babies' heads dashed against rocks, harlots cut into pieces for mail out, cities razed and burned with fire, babies ripped from mothers' wombs, and so on and so forth.

I side with the Lord because even in the O.T. he delights in mercy:

Micah 7:18
[18]Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

Psalm 103:8
The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.

I am sure you are familiar with Ezekiel 18. He has no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked but he will do it.

Individuals are the temple. In that temple there are forces warring, the flesh against the spirit (and don't forget those filthy money-changers, always yapping away). Cleanse the temple in the blood of the Lamb, cast from it those sinful parts, put to death the old man, nip those evil thoughts in the bud with extreme prejudice like they were Babylonian babies or otherwise their feet will take hold on Sheol and drag you down, my friend.

But do you think the Great Physician is incapable of destroying those wicked parts and delivering the temple cleansed? In allowing the tares to grow with the wheat so He can fire assay off the dross out at the judgment, hardening hearts in order to have mercy upon all?

God is more than capable of doing that. I also agree with you that our body is the temple of God.

Read on, my friend - what's that about God numbering every hair on your head? About you being worth more than the sparrows whom He dearly loves? Jesus' teaching here is that it is right to fear God over man, but God loves us and won't smash us...however don't take Him for granted, because we can store up wrath through bad habits and choices.

This is true the Lord can save any soul but if a man does not turn to the Lord and ask forgiveness for their sins they can't be saved. The will not force a soul to choose him, we have to make that choice. Christ will do even go after us, such as the prodigal son, but we need to let his Spirit convict us.

 

[agapelove]

This is true the Lord can save anyone ad long as they are WANT to he saved.

The LORD has already saved all by what was accomplished on the cross ergo "It is finished." Some have accepted this, and others have not. But one day ALL will accept, and the LORD's patience and love will endure until that day.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

"Premise 1: God desires all be saved. (e.g., 1 Timothy 2:4: "[God] who desires (thelo) all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.")

Premise 2: God accomplishes all He desires. (e.g., Isaiah 55:11: "So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire (thelo, from the Septuagint), And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.")

Conclusion: All will be saved."

God is the "Saviour of all" (1 Tim.4:10). He is also the "Judge of all". Will He judge all, or just some?

A Judge judges. A Saviour saves. The Judge of all will judge all. The Saviour of all will save all.

Jesus takes away the sin of the world (Jn.1:29). What happens to those in the lake of fire after Jesus takes away their sin?

*****************************************************************


I destroyed all your "proof texts" against universalism showing they failed as such "proof texts". That's why your quoted verses are so lame. If Scripture actually taught the endless tortures or endless annihilation doctrine, why isn't it being shouted in the most clear language repeatedly from Genesis to Revelation. Such doctrines are a joke.

Yet another lame, feeble, failing attempt to support your theology. Nothing there states there are no more chances after the second coming. Nothing there states the Love of Love Crucified the Omnipotent has expired like a carton of milk & the Almighty is powerless to save. Nothing states Love unending will hold grudges, bitterness and hate against anyone for all eternity, as your theology would have us believe.

Strawman much? I provided no premise. I simply quoted you the GREEK, PARALLEL BIBLE TRANSLATIONS OF THE GREEK AND CONCORDENCE MEANING OF THE GREEK in CONEXT to 1 TIMOTHY 2:4.

You on the other hand in your post here, have gone outside of context 1 TIMOTHY 2:4 and the scripture in discussion and simply ignore the other scriptures that disagree with your premise that the unrentant wicked will receive eternal life after the second coming despite God's Word stating the opposite....

1 TIMOTHY 2:4 GREEK
ὃς πάντας ἀνθρώπους θέλει σωθῆναι καὶ εἰς ἐπίγνωσιν ἀληθείας ἐλθεῖν.
"WHO ALL MEN DESIRES (θέλει) TO BE SAVED AND COME TO KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH TO COME"

A more detailed scripture response you have ignored is provided in post # 1930 linked

The rest of your post has already been proven elsewhere in this thread to be false empty claims not based on God's Word so no further comment needed here.

Hope this helps

 

[BrotherD]

Well what a pleasant surprise. Someone who reads and beleives Gods' Word. Thanks BrotherD nice to see someone who read God's Word again. All I am normally getting here is mostly cut and paste, twisted scriptures from the teachings of the gambling lady of second chances. Sadly nothing biblical.

God bless dear friend thanks for sharing.

Hello brother, the Word of God is very clear. We must be careful how we understand it. This is the first time i have heard of the term Universalism but the belief that all will be saved is very dangerous. Be blessed and keep up the good fight of faith.

 

[FineLinen]

This is true the Lord can save anyone ad long as they are WANT to he saved.

Salvation is NOT in the will or wants of sinful man! It flows from the Will of all little wills the Author & Finisher.

 

[BrotherD]

The LORD has already saved all by what was accomplished on the cross ergo "It is finished." Some have accepted this, and others have not. But one day ALL will accept, and the LORD's patience and love will endure until that day.

How can all be accepted if they never repented?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Salvation is NOT in the will or wants of sinful man! It flows from the Will of all little wills the Author & Finisher.

I like this response to this but it is not mine. I saw it in another thread as this post is only a cut and paste and a response by @JacksBratt ....

That would be funny if it were true. However, I've never ever heard of a drowning person that wasn't shouting "save me, save me.. help help". If not by words.. by actions and they will actually drown the person who is offering help.. in efforts to get to safety.

So... nope.. not true.

That may be the way you look at it.. however others look at it like this:

A man was stuck on the roof of his car in raging flooded river... He prayed to God to rescue him.

1st a man with a life saving ring swam out with a rope to offer to save him.
The man refused stating "No thanks, God will save me".
2nd a man in a boat risked the torrents to go out to the man to save him.
The man refused stating "No thanks God will save me"
3rd a helicopter came and lowered a rope.
The man again refused stating "No thanks, God will save me"

He drowned..

At the pearly gates he asked St. Peter why God didn't save him..

St. Peter said... "What are you talking about? He sent a man with a rope, a boat and even a helicopter.... and you refused them all."