The Evolution of Civilization

[Aman777]

What did Moses write about sanitation?

Go here:

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV

 

[HitchSlap]

Go here:

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV

Nope. He brought it up. He can list it here.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

London violated the sanitary laws that were made clear by Moses in the Bible. They did not have the Black Plague in the Hebrew communities that followed the teaching of the Bible. The point is we can not have a city without civil engineering. That is why we call it CIVIL-ization. We are having a discussion about just what the word: "civil" means.

"Civil engineering is a professional engineering discipline that deals with the design, construction, and maintenance of the physical and naturally built environment, including works like roads, bridges, canals, dams, and buildings" (wiki)

You're not answering the question.

Was London a city when it was struck by the black plague epidemic?
It's a yes/no question.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The only Creationists I read is Gerold Schroeder and Frances Collins and this has nothing to do with either one of them. This has to do with Moses in the Bible and the guide the Bible gives us on HOW to build cities.

To be sure Jerusalem was not the FIRST city. There were cities like Nineveh, Ur and Cairo. Jerusalem was the first Heavenly city. We know that Abraham: "For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God." Hebrews 11:10

"They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: "See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain."Hebrews 8:5

Only creationist literature considers the stories of the bible to be literal history.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If you do a study on the Botany in the Middle East you will discover that the plants and animals in that biodiverse ecosystem can be read about in the Bible.

Which isn't surprising. Curiously, the bible has nothing to say about the plants and animals that do NOT live in that ecosystem. Like Kangaroo's and such.

Indeed, it seems as it the authors of the bible were only aware of what went on their immediate proximity. Exactly as I would expect from a human made book from that time.

It is here in what they call the cradle of civilization where man evolved from a food gather to a food producer.

That is false. Agriculture was independendly developed around the globe multiple times.

This was also when animals went through a transition to be domesticated.

The domestication of dogs, horses, cats, etc started long before that and again it is not exclusive to that region.

It's almost as if you too, like the authors of the bible, are only aware of humans in the middle east during those times.

 

[joshua 1 9]

That is false

We are talking about "The cradle of civilization". Mesopotamia, the area between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers (in modern day Iraq), is often referred to as the cradle of civilization because it is the first place where complex urban centers grew.

If you want to write your own dictionary you can but that is going to make communication very difficult if your definition of the words are different than the commonly accepted definition.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You're not answering the question.

Was London a city when it was struck by the black plague epidemic?
It's a yes/no question.

London was a heathen city. They were not following the pattern that God gave to Moses for them to follow. Just like we have infidels today there were infidels back then.

God gives us a choice, life or death, sickness or health, blessing or curse, poverty or prosperity. There is a easy way that leads to death and destruction. There is a difficult way that leads to life, health, blessing and prosperity. We are encouraged to make the right choice but it is our choice to make. That is the meaning of having free will. God will not make our choices for us. Each and every individual has to prove themselves in making the right choices in life or suffering the consequences for making wrong choices.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Only creationist literature considers the stories of the bible to be literal history.

I consider the stories in the Bible to be literal truth. Clearly the people in the Bible were real people. Adam and Eve were real people.

 

[joshua 1 9]

What did Moses write about sanitation?

That would be a good question to do a google search on.

"The Israelites were instructed to wash themselves and their clothes in running water if they had a bodily discharge, if they came in contact with another person’s discharge, or if they had touched a dead human or animal carcass. They were also instructed to wash any uncovered vessels that were in the vicinity of a dead body, and if a dead carcass touched a vessel it was to be destroyed. Items recovered during war were also to be purified through either fire or running water. In addition, the Israelites were instructed to bury their human waste outside of camp, and to burn the waste of their animals (See Numbers 19:3-22, Lev. 11:1-47; 15:1-33, Deut 23:12).

These sanitary practices without question saved countless lives in the Israelite camps by protecting them against infection caused by unseen germs. Meanwhile, their Egyptian peers were dying by the thousands due to “remedies” that almost always consisted of some amount of human or animal dung1. As mentioned earlier, the sound sanitary practices that we take for granted today only began to flourish about a 100 years ago."

Medical Evidence - Evidences of the Bible

 

[joshua 1 9]

Correction: Adam and Eve were the first parents of ALL Humans.

The gentiles are adopted into the family of God.

17 But if of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Romans 11

 

[joshua 1 9]

I'm curious. Do you believe that the Hebrew people have no traces of Neanderthal DNA, then?

I do not know. The Bible talks about 144,000 or 12,000 from each tribe that God keeps pure onto Himself. They are considered to be undefiled.

I have not looked into the issue of the Neanderthal DNA that much. We know that around 40,000 we find three artifacts: sewing needles, fishing hooks and fishing nets. This allowed people from African to migrate north into an ecosystem that Neanderthals controlled. We know the Neanderthals died out as the people from Africa took over.

 

[joshua 1 9]

No it doesn't!

Civilization did not evolve, it was instituted by God. The Black Plague was a prime example if people do not follow the directions of God then they are going to be destroyed by disease and death.

The medical profession wants me to follow a very strict diet because they feels this is going to lead to good health. That is exactly what the Bible teaches. We need to eat right if we want to be healthy. There is no conflict between true science and a proper understanding of the Bible. They are in total harmony. Religion and Science is like our left and right hand to guide us through life. The Bible helps us to understand Science and Science helps us to understand the Bible.

 

[joshua 1 9]

So many leaps of logic...this is a narrow definition of "civilized."

"It has now become a sinister commonplace in the life of the post-war generation that man has never had any hesitation in applying his increasing mechanical power to the destruction of his own kind. The World War has now demonstrated the appalling possibilities of man's mechanical power of destruction. The only force that can successfully oppose it is the human conscience - something which the younger generation is accustomed to regard as a fixed group of outworn scruples. Everyone knows that man's amazing mechanical power is the product of a long evolution, but it is not commonly realized that this is also true of the social force which we call conscience - although with this important difference: as the oldest known implement-making creature man has been fashioning destructive weapons for possibly a million years, whereas conscience emerged as a social force less than five thousand years ago. One development has far outrun the other; because one is old, while the other has hardly begun and still has infinite possibilities before it. May we not consciously set our hands to the task of further developing this new-born conscience until it becomes a manifestation of good will, strong enough to throttle the surviving savage in us? That task should surely be far less difficult than the one our savage ancestors actually achieved: the creation of a conscience in a world where, in the beginning, none existed."

— James Henry Breasted, The Dawn of Conscience, (1933) Prologue[12]

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

London was a heathen city

Right, so your claims were false.
You said that you can't have a city without "civil engineering".
You also said that the black plague was a result of not having "civil engineering".

Yet, london was a city before, during and after the epidemic.

They were not following the pattern that God gave to Moses for them to follow

So you keep saying. Plenty of people here have asked you how "the pattern of moses" would have stopped the black plague, specifically. Care to answer it any time soon?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I consider the stories in the Bible to be literal truth.

And you are free to do so. But it's just a book.

Clearly the people in the Bible were real people. Adam and Eve were real people.

That is what you believe, yes.
It's not what reality tells us, however.

 

[Cearbhall]

London was a heathen city. They were not following the pattern that God gave to Moses for them to follow. Just like we have infidels today there were infidels back then.

I suppose that's why the Jewish population fared the best...?

How do you even come up with this stuff?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

"The Israelites were instructed to wash themselves and their clothes in running water if they had a bodily discharge, if they came in contact with another person’s discharge, or if they had touched a dead human or animal carcass. They were also instructed to wash any uncovered vessels that were in the vicinity of a dead body, and if a dead carcass touched a vessel it was to be destroyed. Items recovered during war were also to be purified through either fire or running water. In addition, the Israelites were instructed to bury their human waste outside of camp, and to burn the waste of their animals (See Numbers 19:3-22, Lev. 11:1-47; 15:1-33, Deut 23:12).

The black plaque's spread wasn't accomplished by touching fecies or dead bodies. It was airborne.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

We are talking about "The cradle of civilization". Mesopotamia, the area between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers (in modern day Iraq), is often referred to as the cradle of civilization because it is the first place where complex urban centers grew.

Sure. But that's not what you said. You said that that is also the place where humans evolved from hunter-gatherer to foor producer. That is simply false.

The rise of agriculture isn't by any means exclusive to that part of the world.

If you want to write your own dictionary you can but that is going to make communication very difficult if your definition of the words are different than the commonly accepted definition.

Maybe you shouldn't be trying to rewrite history, instead.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The medical profession wants me to follow a very strict diet because they feels this is going to lead to good health. That is exactly what the Bible teaches. We need to eat right if we want to be healthy. There is no conflict between true science and a proper understanding of the Bible. They are in total harmony. Religion and Science is like our left and right hand to guide us through life. The Bible helps us to understand Science and Science helps us to understand the Bible.

Maybe you should share with us all the wonderfull biblically suggested treatment for leprocy. It's in Leviticus. I'll let you do the honors.

 

[Aman777]

The gentiles are adopted into the family of God.

17 But if of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Romans 11

Jews will be in the family of God in the end, along with Gentiles..BUT...today many don't recognize Jesus as God. Adam and Eve were born again Spiritually, making them the FIRST Christians AFTER Cain killed Abel. Gen 5:1-2 Just as they are in the family of God, so are ALL who have been born again Spiritually by the Trinity (God). To be created by the Trinity, in Christ, is to be created Forever. God Bless you