The Error of Lordship Salvation?

[Humble_Disciple]

While John MacArthur claims to be a Calvinist, John Calvin himself seems to have rejected Lordship salvation:

John Calvin, the Swiss Reformer (1509–1564), wrote: “For, as regards justification, faith is something merely passive, bringing nothing of ours to the recovering of God’s favor but receiving from Christ what we lack … We compare faith to a kind of vessel; for unless we come empty and with the mouth of our soul open to seek Christ’s grace, we are not capable of receiving Christ.”

Calvin also wrote this clear statement about faith: “It is a firm and sure knowledge of the divine favour toward us, founded on the truth of a free promise in Christ, and revealed to our minds, and sealed on our hearts, by the Holy Spirit.”

Again Calvin writes in his Institutes: “Should they begin to estimate it (assurance of their salvation) by their good works, nothing will be weaker or more uncertain; works, when estimated by themselves, no less proving the divine displeasure by their imperfection, than His good-will by their incipient purity.” “Faith totters if it pays attention to works, since no one, even he most holy, will find there anything on which to rely.”
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...7a77e541/1573481348836/Lordship+Salvation.pdf

 

[Humble_Disciple]

I have recently found these words of Martin Luther very comforting:

Even if he would, he could not lose his salvation, however much he sinned, unless he refused to believe. For no sin can condemn him save unbelief alone. All other sins, so long as the faith in God’s promise made in baptism returns or remains, are immediately blotted out through that same faith, or rather through the truth of God, because he cannot deny himself if you confess him and faithfully cling to him in his promise. But as for contrition, confession of sins, and satisfaction, along with all those carefully devised exercises of men: if you rely on them and neglect this truth of God, they will suddenly fail you and leave you more wretched than before. For whatever is done without faith in God’s truth is vanity of vanities and vexation of spirit.
Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Luther: Only Unbelief Causes Damnation

 

[Humble_Disciple]

I have shared some articles in this thread from http://faithalone.org, but I disagree with their teaching that one can apostatize from the faith without forfeiting one's salvation. If you fall away from the faith, then you will ultimately return back to it, or else your faith wasn't genuine in the first place.

 

[GraceInChrist]

Actually it is not a verse it is a parable and it is about three types of believers, and an example of an unbeliever 1st soil.

We need to be good soil in order for our faith to be alive. A dead faith is apotasy. Many fall. Some how, osas has made people believe this is about fruits.

 

[GraceInChrist]

You still have not answered the question as to the eternal consequences of those professing to be "Christian" and deliberately refuse to accept the "gift" of water baptism. Remember, the thief on the cross wasn't baptized. The physical act of water baptism gives nothing to the one being baptized and there is nothing in scripture that suggests otherwise. We are baptized by water for two reasons: 1. Because Jesus himself was baptized. 2. Because he commanded us to baptize in the Great Comission. To even suggest that physical immersion is necessary for salvation is itself works based salvation and is on par with your accusations against Lordship Salvation.

The reason for baptism, is for you to participate in his death burial and resurrection. Colossians 2:12. It has nothing to do with obedience. Its by faith and the sacraments we receive the grace of God. A dead faith is also call apostasy. It has nothing to do with fruits. The only thing you need to give them is to believe in the lord and stay in such believe, the holy ghost will regenerate us, Titus 3:5-7. Jhon 15:3-5. Please, read about our catholic fathers. And what they actually believe on.

 

[GraceInChrist]

Their false belief is not based on the teaching of the doctrine, but on their misunderstanding of the teaching of the doctrine. . .which misunderstanding has been explained here more than once.

The "misunderstanding" seems to be deliberate, in an attempt to deny
all the NT commands to pursue and grow in the holiness of faith (Hebrews 12:14).

To be justified you only need to believe, as you can read in Romans 3:21-28. Through holy baptism we participate in his death burial and resurrection colossians 2:12. We are save and seal Ephesians 1:13 in the Holy Ghost. It is by HIM our spirits are regenerated Titus 3:5-7, and not by following the law. As you can read in galatians 3 and 4, and Romans chapter 4. Instead of looking at your dead works, you should focus on what Jesus Christ did for us. And seek him through holy communion.

 

[d taylor]

We need to be good soil in order for our faith to be alive. A dead faith is apotasy. Many fall. Some how, osas has made people believe this is about fruits.

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A believer needs to be good soil, so to produce fruit. If a believer is bad soil, simple they produce no fruit. But producing fruit has nothing to do, with whether they are a believer or not.

 

[GraceInChrist]

-​

A believer needs to be good soil, so to produce fruit. If a believer is bad soil, simple they produce no fruit. But producing fruit has nothing to do, with whether they are a believer or not.

It is the holy ghost that provides faith, joy, peace, charity... not the believer. Trust God, that is the only thing you need to be good soil. Tell him every night before bed, lord im sinner regenerate me. Seek him every sunday in holy communion and you shall be fine.

In know many non believers who are more righteous than me. Perhaps because my ex father in law was a buddist monk.

 

[d taylor]

It is the holy ghost that provides faith, joy, peace, charity... not the believer. Trust God, that is the only thing you need to be good soil. Tell him every night before bed, lord im sinner regenerate me. Seek him every sunday in holy communion and you shall be fine.

In know many non believers who are more righteous than me. Perhaps because my ex father in law was a buddist monk.

There are no righteous non believers and believers are only righteous because they now have trusted in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life (Christ's Life)

 

[Oompa Loompa]

The reason for baptism, is for you to participate in his death burial and resurrection. Colossians 2:12. It has nothing to do with obedience. Its by faith and the sacraments we receive the grace of God. A dead faith is also call apostasy. It has nothing to do with fruits. The only thing you need to give them is to believe in the lord and stay in such believe, the holy ghost will regenerate us, Titus 3:5-7. Jhon 15:3-5. Please, read about our catholic fathers. And what they actually believe on.

And what is the eternal consequence of someone claims to be a saved Christian and yet deliberately refuses to be baptized?

 

[Clare73]

To be justified you only need to believe, as you can read in Romans 3:21-28. Through holy baptism we participate in his death burial and resurrection colossians 2:12. We are save and seal Ephesians 1:13 in the Holy Ghost. It is by HIM our spirits are regenerated Titus 3:5-7, and not by following the law. As you can read in galatians 3 and 4, and Romans chapter 4.
Instead of looking at your dead works, you should focus on what Jesus Christ did for us. And seek him through holy communion.

A life of growing in holiness by the Holy Spirit according to numerous NT commands is "dead works" only when
the work of the Holy Spirit in the believer is "dead works."

 

[GraceInChrist]

And what is the eternal consequence of someone claims to be a saved Christian and yet deliberately refuses to be baptized?

Why would someone be a Christian yet refuse to participate in our lords crucifiction.

 

[GraceInChrist]

A life of growing in holiness by the Holy Spirit according to numerous NT commands is "dead works" only when
the work of the Holy Spirit in the believer is "dead works."

You cant grow in holiness, you are already holy by the blood of Jesus Christ. Regeneration happens after someone is saved. Galatians 3:3.
Lordship salvation is the wrong gospel and will not give good fruits. It can only mimic it. As tares to wheat.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Why would someone be a Christian yet refuse to participate in our lords crucifiction.

That is a good question, but it is one you'd have to ask the millions of people who call themselves "christians" who have yet to be baptized. Regardless of the reason they do not get baptized, I still have no received an answer as to their eternal condition. If the position of the OP is true, then no harm would come to them. Consequently, it would also mean that water baptism is unnecessary as well.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

You cant grow in holiness, you are already holy by the blood of Jesus Christ. Regeneration happens after someone is saved. Galatians 3:3.
Lordship salvation is the wrong gospel and will not give good fruits. It can only mimic it. As tares to wheat.

Yet if someone deliberately chooses not to be baptized, are they placing Jesus as "Lord" eventhough they confess him as "Savior"?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

While John MacArthur claims to be a Calvinist, John Calvin himself seems to have rejected Lordship salvation:

Of course Calvin was referring to the elect. Not everyone, according to Calvin, was elected to be saved.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Of course Calvin was referring to the elect. Not everyone, according to Calvin, was elected to be saved.

I think you are missing the point. Lordship salvation says that we should have assurance of salvation from our works, while Calvin appears to have taught that we should have assurance of salvation from our faith alone.

I agree with Charles Ryrie that true believers will produce fruit, someday and somehow, but that we shouldn't be fruit inspectors of others, because their fruits might not be outwardly evident:
Bearing Fruit | Bible.org

 

[Clare73]

You cant grow in holiness, you are already holy by the blood of Jesus Christ. Regeneration happens after someone is saved. Galatians 3:3.
Lordship salvation is the wrong gospel and will not give good fruits. It can only mimic it. As tares to wheat.

The problem with that is it disagrees with authoritative NT apostolic teaching.
Are you calling the NT wrong in the following, which I have presented before?

"It is God's will that you be sanctified. . ." (1 Thessalonians 4:3)

". . .be holy in all you do; for it is written: 'Be holy, because I am holy--Leviticus 11:44-45.' "
(1 Peter 1:15-16)

". . .called to be holy" (1 Corinthians 1:2)

. . .slaves to sin which leads to death. . .slaves to obedience which leads to righteousness."
(Romans 6:16)

"Just as you used to offer parts of your body in slavery to impurity, so now
offer your body in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness." (Romans 6:19)

Now that you have. . .become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness. (Romans 6:22)

". . .let us purify ourselves from everthing that contaminates body and spirit,
perfecting (completing) holiness out of reverence for God. (2 Corinthians 7:1)

"Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)"
(Ephesians 5:9)

". . .pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness." (1 Timothy 6:11)

". . .pursue righteusness, faith, love and peace. . ." (2 Timothy 2:22)

". . .all Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for. . .training in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16)

"God disciplines us for our good that we may share in his holiness. . . discipline produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it." (Hebrews 12:10-11)

"die to sin and live for righteousness" (1 Peter 2:24)

"everyone who does what is right has been born of him." (1 John 2:29)

"he who does what is right is righteous. . .he does what is sinful is of the devil," (1 John 3:7)

"Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!" (Romans 6:1)

"Do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desire." (Romans 6:12)

"Do not offer the parts of your body to sin. . .Offer them to God as instruments of righteousness." (Romans 6:13)

"Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I think you are missing the point. Lordship salvation says that we should have assurance of salvation from our works, while Calvin appears to have taught that we should have assurance of salvation from our faith alone.

I agree with Charles Ryrie that true believers will produce fruit, someday and somehow, but that we shouldn't be fruit inspectors of others, because their fruits might not be outwardly evident:
Bearing Fruit | Bible.org

Lordship salvation says no such thing. Now please, for a third time, please answer the question. What is the eternal consequences of a "christian" who refuses to be baptized? Don't think I have not noticed you have been evading.

 

[GraceInChrist]

Yet if someone deliberately chooses not to be baptized, are they placing Jesus as "Lord" eventhough they confess him as "Savior"?

Many saints were baptized during their own deaths, this is call baptism of desire. That would mean, you miss guidance of the holy ghost though out your life time. Why wait?

Nevertheless if in your own heart you reject being part of his finish work through baptism and his graces alone, and you seek for example to put to death your flesh by good work through your flesh and law. Then no, you are not save.