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The Error of Lordship Salvation?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Humble_Disciple, Jun 11, 2021.

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  1. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    It is The Messiah that a person has to believe in to receive Eternal Life. The whole Gospel of John makes the case that Jesus is The promised Messiah from the prophecies of The Tanakh. there are 8 miracles Jesus did showing He is who He says He is. They did not point to The Messiah blood but to The Messiah.

    Why are you focusing on sins, Jesus took away the sin of the world. Sin is not an obstacle for a person in receiving Eternal Life, sin does not stand in the way.

    What Paul was doing before he became a believer, he was murdering believers.

    If their works point to them being a believe why do Jesus say away from Him

    ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’


    The same reason anyone does works expecting to be in heaven, they do not believe the free promise of Eternal Life offered by God. They believe they can obtain it, and not receive it
     
  2. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    I have never checked, i may google strongs and compare since you mentioned it.
     
  3. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    Not the same word but here are the comparisons.

    From Luke 8
    Strong's Greek: 5453. φύω (phuó) -- to bring forth, produce

    From John 4
    Strong's Greek: 242. ἅλλομαι (hallomai) -- to leap

    Strong's Greek: 4077. πηγή (pégé) -- a spring (of water)
     
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  4. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    See Romans 3:25.
    .
     
  5. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    Are you posting 3:25 to say that it is not The Messiah one needs to trust in, but His blood for Eternal Life

    whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,


     
  6. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    I'm posting Romans 3:25 because it is the word of God stating that savng faith is in the person and the work of Jesus for the remiitance of one's sin and right standing with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty."
     
  7. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    So are you saying a person has to not only believe in The Messiah for Eternal Life, but also believe in His work.

    So if a person say on an island (who has not come in contact with christianity) comes across part of a page of The Bible, like the part below.

    Can they have Eternal Life if they read these verses and believe in Jesus for everlasting life.

    Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
     
  8. Daniel Martinovich

    Daniel Martinovich Friend Supporter

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    It just seems to me that you don’t have the subject all worked out in your head. How Obedience to the faith is worked by every individual is conditional, based on their circumstances and the God who knows everything is dealing with them. But embracing faith as a response to heavens initiation is in fact a work, an act of obedience to the Lord who is actually the Lord.

    Our perceptions of scripture have a lot to do with differing inherent personality types. There needs to be a balance between the weaknesses and strengths of those perception. It’s why we are a body and Jesus is the head. No individual has everything worked out.
     
  9. Humble_Disciple

    Humble_Disciple Well-Known Member

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    In this video, Dr. Tony Evans explains these things better than I can:



    This is one of the best sermons I've ever heard.
     
  10. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    We are responsible for what we know, not what we don't know.

    I don't do hypotheticas, they are meaningless. . .no more.
     
  11. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Work is performance, action. . .faith is not performance, action. . . it's a disposition.
     
  12. Daniel Martinovich

    Daniel Martinovich Friend Supporter

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    Really? Not a choice that results in certain dispositions? News to me.
     
  13. Palmfever

    Palmfever Active Member Supporter

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    It isn't faith vs works, it's faith that works.
    Because of their faith, These men acted. They performed the work. “But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.” Suppose you were at a restaurant and the waitress/waiter leaned up against the wall staring at you, Expecting you to serve yourself, Are they waiting on you? Sure, go on, give them a great tip. To wait on someone is to serve them… So we see these men acted on their faith. Why? Because “Faith without works is dead.” There would be no nation from Abraham, Noah would have drowned.

    Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were set in order at God’s command, so that the visible has its origin in the invisible. Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered God a greater sacrifice than Cain, and through his faith he was commended as righteous, because God commended him for his offerings. And through his faith he still speaks, though he is dead. Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he did not see death, and he was not to be found because God took him up. For before his removal he had been commended as having pleased God. Heb 11:6 Now without faith it is impossible to please him, for the one who approaches God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, when he was warned about things not yet seen, with reverent regard constructed an ark for the deliverance of his family. Through faith he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith. Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place he would later receive as an inheritance, and he went out without understanding where he was going. Heb 11:9 By faith he lived as a foreigner in the promised land as though it were a foreign country, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, who were fellow heirs of the same promise. Heb 11:10 For he was looking forward to the city with firm foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

    Romans 4:19 Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. 20 Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God,

    Faith that works

    Heb 11:13 These all died in faith without receiving the things promised, but they saw them in the distance and welcomed them and acknowledged that they were strangers and foreigners on the earth. Heb 11:14 For those who speak in such a way make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. Heb 11:15 In fact, if they had been thinking of the land that they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. Heb 11:16 But as it is, they aspire to a better land, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore, God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac. He had received the promises, yet he was ready to offer up his only son. Heb 11:18 God had told him, “Through Isaac descendants will carry on your name,” Heb 11:19 and he reasoned that God could even raise him from the dead, and in a sense he received him back from there. Heb 11:20 By faith also Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning the future. Heb 11:21 By faith Jacob, as he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph and worshiped as he leaned on his staff. Heb 11:22 By faith Joseph, at the end of his life, mentioned the exodus of the sons of Israel and gave instructions about his burial. Heb 11:23 By faith, when Moses was born, his parents hid him for three months, because they saw the child was beautiful and they were not afraid of the king’s edict. Heb 11:24 By faith, when he grew up, Moses refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, Heb 11:25 choosing rather to be ill-treated with the people of God than to enjoy sin’s fleeting pleasure. Heb 11:26 He regarded abuse suffered for Christ to be greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for his eyes were fixed on the reward. Heb 11:27 By faith he left Egypt without fearing the king’s anger, for he persevered as though he could see the one who is invisible. Heb 11:28 By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of the blood, so that the one who destroyed the firstborn would not touch them. Heb 11:29 By faith they crossed the Red Sea as if on dry ground, but when the Egyptians tried it, they were swallowed up. Heb 11:30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell after the people marched around them for seven days. Heb 11:31 By faith Rahab the prostitute escaped the destruction of the disobedient, because she welcomed the spies in peace. Heb 11:32 And what more shall I say? For time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets. Heb 11:33 Through faith they conquered kingdoms, administered justice, gained what was promised, shut the mouths of lions, Heb 11:34 quenched raging fire, escaped the edge of the sword, gained strength in weakness, became mighty in battle, put foreign armies to flight, Heb 11:35 and women received back their dead raised to life. But others were tortured, not accepting release, to obtain resurrection to a better life. Heb 11:36 And others experienced mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. Heb 11:37 They were stoned, sawed apart, murdered with the sword; they went about in sheepskins and goatskins; they were destitute, afflicted, ill-treated Heb 11:38 (the world was not worthy of them); they wandered in deserts and mountains and caves and openings in the earth. Heb 11:39 And these all were commended for their faith, yet they did not receive what was promised. Heb 11:40 For God had provided something better for us, so that they would be made perfect together with us.

    John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 21. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    Back to the waiter/waitress

    We have a job, do it.
     
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  14. Humble_Disciple

    Humble_Disciple Well-Known Member

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    Please keep in mind that salvation by grace alone through faith alone doesn't mean that you can go on sinning however much you want.

    Even if you are saved from eternal damnation in hell, God can still punish or harshly test you in this life as a consequence of your sins.

    Also, those who live a sinful life, though they may not be losing their salvation, are forfeiting the potential rewards they could be earning in heaven:

    We Believe in Rewards – Grace Evangelical Society

     
  15. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    _

    The road to Eternal Life is narrow (constricted)
    “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
    Because narrow is the gate and confined (constricted) is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

    The way is narrow, that is the way to Eternal Life is through faith in The Messiah.

    So as repentance, obedience, confession, following God's word and any other action a person may perform or do, widens the gate.
    It can be seen when the gate widens, it leads to destruction.​
     
  16. Humble_Disciple

    Humble_Disciple Well-Known Member

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    1 Samuel 15:22 says that obedience is better than sacrifice. What is obedience to God under the New Covenant? In the words of Jesus, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." (John 6:29)

    If we perform good works, various sacrifices to earn our salvation, it will be displeasing to the Lord. Good works should be in gratitude for our salvation, rather than in attempt to earn our salvation.
     
  17. Humble_Disciple

    Humble_Disciple Well-Known Member

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    In Philippians 3, Paul refers to those who try to justify themselves by works of the law, rather than by simple faith, as dogs and evil doers:

    Our good works are "counted as rubbish" compared to Jesus' perfect sacrifice on the cross.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2021
  18. Humble_Disciple

    Humble_Disciple Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. Humble_Disciple

    Humble_Disciple Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  20. Humble_Disciple

    Humble_Disciple Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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