The Error of Lordship Salvation?

[Humble_Disciple]

I believe that Lordship salvation is wrong for raising the entrance requirements for saving faith. The original Reformers did teach, however, that as a Christian matures in the faith, the evidence of the regeneration of the Holy Spirit should be evident in their personal conduct.

This change of life is not something we merit on our own, but instead is a gift of the Holy Spirit, as He transforms our innermost desires.

This is an extreme example, but I believe that John Calvin or Martin Luther, if given the opportunity, would have warned Adolf Hitler that he was headed for hell, no matter what profession of Christian faith he may have made at some point in his life.

 

[Clare73]

I believe that Lordship salvation is wrong for raising the entrance requirements for saving faith. The original Reformers did teach, however, that as a Christian matures in the faith, the evidence of the regeneration of the Holy Spirit should be evident in their personal conduct.

This change of life is not something we merit on our own, but instead is a gift of the Holy Spirit, as He transforms our innermost desires.

This is an extreme example, but I believe that John Calvin or Martin Luther, if given the opportunity, would have warned Adolf Hitler that he was headed for hell, no matter what profession of Christian faith he may have made at some point in his life.

"Lordship Salvation" is not about entrance requirments.

It's about faithfulness.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

"Lordship Salvation" is not about entrance requirments.

It's about faithfulness.

What I am referring to is the belief that people must give up all their sins at the moment they come to Christ for salvation. For some people, this change is sudden, but for others it might be gradual.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Lordship Salvation is basically Catholicism for Protestants.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Lordship Salvation is basically Catholicism for Protestants.

I think it just depends on how extreme it is. I don't think we should go too extreme in the opposite direction either.

 

[Ceallaigh]

I think it just depends on how extreme it is. I don't think we should go too extreme in the opposite direction either.

I've been active in a few free grace threads that have had a couple of Catholics arguing against it. And all the arguments they've used, which he they have identified as being the Catholic teaching regarding salvation, have sounded to me as being practically verbatim to what I've heard from Lordship Salvation proponents like John MacArthur. Yet I've heard MacArthur (who's been described as the king of Lordship Salvation) condemn Catholicism for its works based salvation teaching.

So in my experience it's pretty confusing.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

So in my experience it's pretty confusing.

What Martin Luther taught is that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone, but that if we continue in unrepentant sin, we are at risk of losing our faith and thus losing our salvation.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

I agree with "free grace" theology that we shouldn't front load the Gospel, by raising the entrance requirement for the reception of saving faith. However, I also believe that "free grace" teachers go further in rejecting Lordship salvation than Calvin, Luther, and the other Reformers did.

The Reformers would have said that, while we are indeed saved by grace alone through faith alone, if your life doesn't show any evidence of regeneration, then believers have grounds to doubt the sincerity of their faith.

This doesn't mean that true believers will never sin, but instead that the trajectory of our lives will show an increase in obedience from the day we convert to the day we leave this planet. This increase in obedience is entirely the gift of God's grace, so believers have nothing to boast about.

 

[Ceallaigh]

It usually comes down to that if someone is enjoying a lifestyle full of sin, with no conviction, they probably weren't ever really saved. For me the term "unchristian" goes back to my youth. And to this day often a when a temptation enters my head, my thought is "no, that's unchristian".

 

[Humble_Disciple]

It usually comes down to that if someone is enjoying a lifestyle full of sin, with no conviction, they probably weren't ever really saved. For me the term "unchristian" goes back to my youth. And to this day often a when a temptation enters my head, my thought is "no, that's unchristian".

When tempted to sin, I try to remind myself that it won't really make me happy.

 

[Ceallaigh]

When tempted to sin, I try to remind myself that it won't really make me happy.

There's spur of the moment things, like someone gets rude on the highway and flips me off. My carnal instinct is to reciprocate, but that gets cut off by the admonishment of, that's not the Christian thing to do.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

There's spur of the moment things, like someone gets rude on the highway and flips me off. My carnal instinct is to reciprocate, but that gets cut off by the admonishment of, that's not the Christian thing to do.

I used to be very reactive like that too, until I grew in God's grace. I feel like God's my awareness of God's grace for my fallen human nature helps me to be more gracious to other people.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

This is from the 1689 London Baptist Confession, which was adapted from the Westminster Confession:

The most wise, righteous, and gracious God doth oftentimes leave for a season his own children to manifold temptations and the corruptions of their own hearts, to chastise them for their former sins, or to discover unto them the hidden strength of corruption and deceitfulness of their hearts, that they may be humbled; and to raise them to a more close and constant dependence for their support upon himself; and to make them more watchful against all future occasions of sin, and for other just and holy ends. So that whatsoever befalls any of his elect is by his appointment, for his glory, and their good. ( 2 Chronicles 32:25, 26, 31; 2 Corinthians 12:7-9; Romans 8:28 )
1689 Baptist Confession Chapter 5

This seems to be teaching a middle position between hyper-grace and Lordship salvation.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Rapper DMX died this year of a drug overdose, but he was active in his church and read the Bible everyday. This is why we need to remember God's grace, which is more powerful than our sin. No one can say that DMX is in hell right now. That's God's decision. He obviously had a sickness.
DMX - Wikipedia

 

[Humble_Disciple]

While teachers of Lordship salvation like John MacArthur claim to to be Calvinists, their teaching might be closer to Wesleyan perfectionism than traditional Calvinism.

Unlike our Wesleyan brothers and sisters, Calvinists don’t believe that sinless perfection is possible in this lifetime.

Why Lordship Salvation Is False: WCF 5:5

The Westminster Confession of Faith outright rejects John MacArthur's false teaching of Lordship Salvation and I can prove it. MacArthur's view amounts to Arminianism or the libertarian free will view since the Bible clearly teaches that the human will is corrupted by sin and cannot obey God without God's monergistic and irresistible grace that leads to both conversion and to a process of sanctification. God can and often does withhold His grace of sanctification in order to humble proud elect persons:

Westminster Confession of Faith: Chapter 5: Of Providence.
5. The most wise, righteous, and gracious God doth oftentimes leave, for a season, His own children to manifold temptations, and the corruption of their own hearts, to chastise them for their former sins, or to discover unto them the hidden strength of corruption and deceitfulness of their hearts, that they may be humbled;1 and, to raise them to a more close and constant dependence for their support upon Himself, and to make them more watchful against all future occasions of sin, and for sundry other just and holy ends.2
1 2 Chron. 32:25,26,31; 2 Sam. 24:1.
2 2 Cor. 12:7,8,9; Ps. 73:1-28; Ps. 77:1,10,12; Mark 14:66-72; John 21:15,16,17.

So much for "making Jesus Lord of your life." That statement is an outright denial of the doctrines of sovereign grace since it is God alone who saves, justifies, sanctifies, keeps and preserves His elect. The idea that we keep ourselves is flat out synergistic and/or semi-pelagianism. James White, Paul Washer, John MacArthur and even J.I. Packer ought to repent of their false teaching of synergism in this area.
Reasonable Christian: Why Lordship Salvation Is False: WCF 5:5

 

[Humble_Disciple]

This is from the doctrinal statement of the Salvation Army, of which I used to be a member:

Continued obedient faith
Our salvation is assured as long as we continue to exercise faith in Jesus Christ. Such faith is expressed in obedience to his leadings, will and commands. Obedience as a free-will choice is a consequence of faith, and without it, faith die
Salvation

This would mean that our assurance of salvation is conditional upon continued, obedient faith, rather than the presumption that God will save us no matter how we live, even if we fall away from the faith.

At the same time, I believe that good works and avoidance of sin are a gift of God's grace, imparted to us as sanctifying grace from Christ's finished work on the cross:
Imparted righteousness - Wikipedia

 

[mnorian]

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