The end of generational curses

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Sorry but you are deceived.
The bible commands Christians or follower of Christ to expel demons, i don't know what are you on about. Half the ministry of Jesus was doing this, and today christians need to do the same.
Big issues with your statements, lots of Christians have spiritual problems, what we do with them? tell them they are not Christians? a lot of mental illnesses are because of evil spirits, God just need to open the eyes of christians so they can discern if there is something.

We are free from the reign of darkness, but is not instantaneous when believing, sometimes people need to walk a path for freedom.

Controversial statement, but If in a church never people manifest demons is because that church is 'cold', when the presence of God is there, demons can't stand it.

Nowhere in the book of Acts are there examples of Christians having demons cast out of them. Colossians 1:13 is clear, and if you believe that Christians can have demons, then you are saying that Christians are not rescued from the dominion of darkness. So what are you going to believe - God's Word or your own logic? The struggles that Christians have are to do with mortifying the deeds of the flesh, because the flesh wars against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh. What some think is demonization is not at all, but a person's struggle with the flesh.

Also, God's Word says that when a person is converted to Christ he or she receives the filling of the Holy Spirit. The examples of Cornelius and the twelve Ephesian disciples having the Holy Spirit fall on them as soon as they believed and were baptised in the name of Christ, as well as Paul clearly saying in Galatians that a person receives the Holy Spirit when they believe, disproves the filling of the Spirit as a subsequent even after conversion. What this means is that a believer cannot have the indwelling Holy Spirit and a demon at the same time.

 

[ARBITER01]

Sorry but you are deceived.
The bible commands Christians or follower of Christ to expel demons, i don't know what are you on about. Half the ministry of Jesus was doing this, and today christians need to do the same.
Big issues with your statements, lots of Christians have spiritual problems, what we do with them? tell them they are not Christians? a lot of mental illnesses are because of evil spirits, God just need to open the eyes of christians so they can discern if there is something.

We are free from the reign of darkness, but is not instantaneous when believing, sometimes people need to walk a path for freedom.

I agree.

I've used prayer to remove quite a few demonic entities out of Christians over the years. Moreso out of unbelievers, but out of Christians nonetheless.

Trying to make a case against such things simply because a person can't find it in the bible is an argument from silence. When GOD leads us to do such things we are to obey. The body of Christ does need maintenance, and some of us will be used that way for this very purpose.

 

[NBB]

Nowhere in the book of Acts are there examples of Christians having demons cast out of them. Colossians 1:13 is clear, and if you believe that Christians can have demons, then you are saying that Christians are not rescued from the dominion of darkness. So what are you going to believe - God's Word or your own logic? The struggles that Christians have are to do with mortifying the deeds of the flesh, because the flesh wars against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh. What some think is demonization is not at all, but a person's struggle with the flesh.

Also, God's Word says that when a person is converted to Christ he or she receives the filling of the Holy Spirit. The examples of Cornelius and the twelve Ephesian disciples having the Holy Spirit fall on them as soon as they believed and were baptised in the name of Christ, as well as Paul clearly saying in Galatians that a person receives the Holy Spirit when they believe, disproves the filling of the Spirit as a subsequent even after conversion. What this means is that a believer cannot have the indwelling Holy Spirit and a demon at the same time.

In the name of Jesus they will cast out devils it says. Its false saying all spiritual problems are cast out 'automatically' when believing.

 

[NBB]

Nowhere in the book of Acts are there examples of Christians having demons cast out of them. Colossians 1:13 is clear, and if you believe that Christians can have demons, then you are saying that Christians are not rescued from the dominion of darkness. So what are you going to believe - God's Word or your own logic? The struggles that Christians have are to do with mortifying the deeds of the flesh, because the flesh wars against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh. What some think is demonization is not at all, but a person's struggle with the flesh.

Also, God's Word says that when a person is converted to Christ he or she receives the filling of the Holy Spirit. The examples of Cornelius and the twelve Ephesian disciples having the Holy Spirit fall on them as soon as they believed and were baptised in the name of Christ, as well as Paul clearly saying in Galatians that a person receives the Holy Spirit when they believe, disproves the filling of the Spirit as a subsequent even after conversion. What this means is that a believer cannot have the indwelling Holy Spirit and a demon at the same time.

The devil has us all fooled just look at the mental issues sections of this site etc, you dare to say they are not Christians those that have problems? that can offend someone, i have experience with 'mental illness' and evil spirits in my life.

 

[NBB]

Nowhere in the book of Acts are there examples of Christians having demons cast out of them. Colossians 1:13 is clear, and if you believe that Christians can have demons, then you are saying that Christians are not rescued from the dominion of darkness. So what are you going to believe - God's Word or your own logic? The struggles that Christians have are to do with mortifying the deeds of the flesh, because the flesh wars against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh. What some think is demonization is not at all, but a person's struggle with the flesh.

Also, God's Word says that when a person is converted to Christ he or she receives the filling of the Holy Spirit. The examples of Cornelius and the twelve Ephesian disciples having the Holy Spirit fall on them as soon as they believed and were baptised in the name of Christ, as well as Paul clearly saying in Galatians that a person receives the Holy Spirit when they believe, disproves the filling of the Spirit as a subsequent even after conversion. What this means is that a believer cannot have the indwelling Holy Spirit and a demon at the same time.

Is clear not all Christians are filled with the Holy spirit, many have problems with sin, the Holy spirit can't stay filling you if you sin. You would grieve him and he would diminish.
The bible says some christians were not filled with the Holy spirit after believing, with the verse 'you received the Holy spirit when believing?' and they needed to lay hands on them to be filled.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I agree.

I've used prayer to remove quite a few demonic entities out of Christians over the years. Moreso out of unbelievers, but out of Christians nonetheless.

Trying to make a case against such things simply because a person can't find it in the bible is an argument from silence. When GOD leads us to do such things we are to obey. The body of Christ does need maintenance, and some of us will be used that way for this very purpose.

If a professing Christian had a demonic entity in them, then they couldn't have had the indwelling Holy Spirit, because one can't have the Holy Spirit and a demon abiding in the same body. This means also that a demon possessed person's body is not the temple of the Holy Spirit but a habitation of a demon. Therefore if a person is inhabited by a demon, then Colossians 1:13 doesn't apply to them, because to enable the possession of a demon, it means that the person has not been rescued from the dominion of darkness, and therefore not a Christian believer according to Paul, who was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write that verse.

There have been many testimonies of Christians who purportedly had demons cast out of them, coming back reporting that nothing has essentially changed. The actual fact was that their struggles weren't because of demons at all, but were the conflicts they had between the flesh and the Spirit, and once they realised that there was no quick fix involve in casting out of a non existent demon, they were able to shift their focus and start mortifying the deeds of the flesh. This sort of thing happens when people don't read and study the Bible for themselves and trust in what mentors tell them.

The correct deliverance ministry should be directed to non-believers to cast out any demons that would block them from receiving Christ as Saviour. The reference to a demon after being cast out returning to a "house" cleaned and swept but empty, speaks of an unbeliever having a demon cast out but not going on to being converted to Christ, and because the person had not received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, his spirit was empty to enable the demon to re-enter and taking seven others with it to make that person's condition much worse than it was before.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The devil has us all fooled just look at the mental issues sections of this site etc, you dare to say they are not Christians those that have problems? that can offend someone, i have experience with 'mental illness' and evil spirits in my life.

It is the flesh warring against the Spirit. A person converted to Christ has the indwelling Holy Spirit making no place for a demon to get in. The Scripture tells us to give no place for the devil, and being indwelled by the Holy Spirit makes that possible. The devil cannot fool a believer who reads and studies the Bible. As Jesus defeated the devil through the Word of God, so believers can use the sword of the Spirit to cause the devil to flee from them. The way that a devil could fool a believer is to trick him into thinking that he could be possessed of a demon.

The answer is not to resort to quick fixes like casting non existent demons out of Christians, but to follow Paul's instruction, that if we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh. There is a constant battle between the flesh and the Spirit but we have the armour of God as set out in Ephesians 6. Where believers are overwhelmed by the flesh it is usually because they are insufficiently employing one or more of the elements of the armour of God.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Is clear not all Christians are filled with the Holy spirit, many have problems with sin, the Holy spirit can't stay filling you if you sin. You would grieve him and he would diminish.
The bible says some christians were not filled with the Holy spirit after believing, with the verse 'you received the Holy spirit when believing?' and they needed to lay hands on them to be filled.

If a professing Christian is not filled with the Holy Spirit then he is not a Christian at all. The two examples, Cornelius and the 12 Ephesian disciples, had the Holy Spirit fall on them as soon as they believed and were baptised in the name of Jesus. Also Paul was quite clear in Galatians that a person receives the Holy Spirit when they believe on Christ.

The Bible does not say that some Christians were not filled with the Holy Spirit after believing. What you quoted was the reference about the 12 Ephesian disciples who were baptised with John's baptism of repentance but did not know if there was any Holy Spirit. When Paul gave them the Gospel of Christ and baptised them in the name of Jesus, they were immediately filled with the Holy Spirit. So it is best to read the actual Scripture reference before trying to paraphrase a verse according to your own interpretation from memory. So there are three clear references from the Bible that says that a person is indwelled with the Holy Spirit at conversion, and because God doesn't contradict Himself, the teaching that a person gets converted then needs the Holy Spirit as a subsequent event, is false and non Scriptural.

The doctrine that says that the baptism with the Spirit is a subsequent event after conversion was formulated by the AOG to assist people who were already genuine believers, but didn't know about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and so didn't realise that they already had the indwelling of the Spirit according to Scripture. So praying for people to receive the baptism with the Spirit which they already had is basically misleading and therefore false teaching. The fact that people had a genuine experience after being prayed for and had hands laid on them, shows that the indwelling Holy Spirit was actually released through them, rather than having received Him from outside of themselves.

So, to base the doctrine of the baptism of the Spirit subsequent to conversion on the experience of the 12 Ephesian disciples, is because of faulty exegesis and hermeneutics, basically adding one plus one equals three.

 

[ARBITER01]

If a professing Christian had a demonic entity in them, then they couldn't have had the indwelling Holy Spirit, because one can't have the Holy Spirit and a demon abiding in the same body. This means also that a demon possessed person's body is not the temple of the Holy Spirit but a habitation of a demon. Therefore if a person is inhabited by a demon, then Colossians 1:13 doesn't apply to them, because to enable the possession of a demon, it means that the person has not been rescued from the dominion of darkness, and therefore not a Christian believer according to Paul, who was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write that verse.

I cleaned out several Christians that got themselves into sinful practices, it won't be the last. Christians can still get into sin, and if they carry on long enough with it, they open the doorway to these things.

You need more experience in your walk with GOD instead of relying upon just book knowledge.

 

[NBB]

If a professing Christian is not filled with the Holy Spirit then he is not a Christian at all. The two examples, Cornelius and the 12 Ephesian disciples, had the Holy Spirit fall on them as soon as they believed and were baptised in the name of Jesus. Also Paul was quite clear in Galatians that a person receives the Holy Spirit when they believe on Christ.

The Bible does not say that some Christians were not filled with the Holy Spirit after believing. What you quoted was the reference about the 12 Ephesian disciples who were baptised with John's baptism of repentance but did not know if there was any Holy Spirit. When Paul gave them the Gospel of Christ and baptised them in the name of Jesus, they were immediately filled with the Holy Spirit. So it is best to read the actual Scripture reference before trying to paraphrase a verse according to your own interpretation from memory. So there are three clear references from the Bible that says that a person is indwelled with the Holy Spirit at conversion, and because God doesn't contradict Himself, the teaching that a person gets converted then needs the Holy Spirit as a subsequent event, is false and non Scriptural.

The doctrine that says that the baptism with the Spirit is a subsequent event after conversion was formulated by the AOG to assist people who were already genuine believers, but didn't know about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and so didn't realise that they already had the indwelling of the Spirit according to Scripture. So praying for people to receive the baptism with the Spirit which they already had is basically misleading and therefore false teaching. The fact that people had a genuine experience after being prayed for and had hands laid on them, shows that the indwelling Holy Spirit was actually released through them, rather than having received Him from outside of themselves.

So, to base the doctrine of the baptism of the Spirit subsequent to conversion on the experience of the 12 Ephesian disciples, is because of faulty exegesis and hermeneutics, basically adding one plus one equals three.

Please stop listening to folk like John Mcarthur etc, they are wrong. About the stuff you always criticize, the bible says there would be false people even doing false miracles but that has nothing to do with the real thing.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Please stop listening to folk like John Mcarthur etc, they are wrong. About the stuff you always criticize, the bible says there would be false people even doing false miracles but that has nothing to do with the real thing.

I have already quoted three sections of the Bible that proves my point. It has nothing to do with John Mcarthur. What you are doing is putting AOG doctrine in preference to what the Bible clearly points out.

 

[ARBITER01]

Please stop listening to folk like John Mcarthur etc, they are wrong. About the stuff you always criticize, the bible says there would be false people even doing false miracles but that has nothing to do with the real thing.

Don't get too wrapped up in arguing with Oscarr, he likes to do that on here at times. If he or anyone else wants to act like some sort of fundamentalist Westboro Baptist with their doctrinal stances,..... fine, let him/them. It doesn't discount your experience with GOD and the plans He has for you.

What matters is what GOD wants for you, and your obedience to Him.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Don't get too wrapped up in arguing with Oscarr, he likes to do that on here at times. If he or anyone else wants to act like some sort of fundamentalist Westboro Baptist with their doctrinal stances,..... fine, let him/them. It doesn't discount your experience with GOD and the plans He has for you.

What matters is what GOD wants for you, and your obedience to Him.

Lester Sumrall said that if we want to know the will of God, read the Bible, and if we want to do the will of God, do the Bible. Sumrall was a very well respected pastor in the traditional Pentecostal movement. He spent much time with Smith Wigglesworth and Howard Carter. So when I want to find out what God wants for me, I read the Bible and He tells me. If I want to hear God's voice, I read the Bible out loud. At the age of 76 I know what God's plan is for me. It is to die, be resurrected to glory and spend eternity fellowshiping with Christ.

 

[ARBITER01]

Lester Sumrall said that if we want to know the will of God, read the Bible, and if we want to do the will of God, do the Bible. Sumrall was a very well respected pastor in the traditional Pentecostal movement. He spent much time with Smith Wigglesworth and Howard Carter. So when I want to find out what God wants for me, I read the Bible and He tells me. If I want to hear God's voice, I read the Bible out loud. At the age of 76 I know what God's plan is for me. It is to die, be resurrected to glory and spend eternity fellowshiping with Christ.

I can understand that. A lot of folks want GOD to speak to them through their bible because they are not comfortable hearing Him directly, or so it seems.

I take a different route than you,.... I want to hear GOD directly. I don't place my bible in between GOD and I and try to force Him to only speak to me through it.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I can understand that. A lot of folks want GOD to speak to them through their bible because they are not comfortable hearing Him directly, or so it seems.

I take a different route than you,.... I want to hear GOD directly. I don't place my bible in between GOD and I and try to force Him to only speak to me through it.

John said, "Don't believe every spirit, but test them whether they be of God or not, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." So if you hear something you think is from God, how are you going to test it? Or are you just going to accept it because you have some feeling of peace and certainty about it?

I am not talking about asking the Holy Spirit whether it is right for you to go down to the dairy to buy a packet of potato chips. For practical living we can plan our own way and trust the Lord to guide our steps. We don't need to be led of the Lord like a mule with a bit and bridle.

I am talking about the difference between sound doctrine and fables. The Scripture says that many will not endure sound doctrine and will turn to fables. Joseph Smith was an ordinary young church member who wanted something more than what his church had to offer him, so he opened himself up to the 'voice" of God instead of seeking God through the Bible. We know that he was visited by an angel who dictated the Book of Mormon to him. That is an extreme example for sure, but I have heard of the harm done to many believers because a group of Fort Laudedale men heard the "voice of God" concerning the shepherding discipleship movement and the importance of having a covering of a church or another believer - something never mentioned in the New Testament. Being "slain in the Spirit" is missing from the New Testament. The only reference is what happened to the mob coming to arrest Jesus when He said, "I am who you are seeking", and they all fell backwards on the ground. Someone must have heard a voice telling them that being slain in the Spirit is of the Holy Spirit without checking to see whether it is mentioned in the New Testament.

 

[ARBITER01]

I am talking about the difference between sound doctrine and fables. The Scripture says that many will not endure sound doctrine and will turn to fables. Joseph Smith was an ordinary young church member who wanted something more than what his church had to offer him, so he opened himself up to the 'voice" of God instead of seeking God through the Bible. We know that he was visited by an angel who dictated the Book of Mormon to him. That is an extreme example for sure, but I have heard of the harm done to many believers because a group of Fort Laudedale men heard the "voice of God" concerning the shepherding discipleship movement and the importance of having a covering of a church or another believer - something never mentioned in the New Testament. Being "slain in the Spirit" is missing from the New Testament. The only reference is what happened to the mob coming to arrest Jesus when He said, "I am who you are seeking", and they all fell backwards on the ground. Someone must have heard a voice telling them that being slain in the Spirit is of the Holy Spirit without checking to see whether it is mentioned in the New Testament.

Sometimes we can be more scared of the unknown than we should be.

It's ok if you can only trust the written word instead of GOD Himself speaking to you,.... it's perfectly fine,.... but your choices in how you wish to lead your Christian life are yours, not mine.

We each have a race to run, and we each have our choices on how we wish to run it.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Sometimes we can be more scared of the unknown than we should be.

It's ok if you can only trust the written word instead of GOD Himself speaking to you,.... it's perfectly fine,.... but your choices in how you wish to lead your Christian life are yours, not mine.

We each have a race to run, and we each have our choices on how we wish to run it.

Our differences make stimulating and fun conversations and debates between us. CF would be boring otherwise. I had a good laugh at your comment about me being like Westboro Baptist. I take it as a badge of honour!

We live in different cultures and mix with different types of Christians, therefore it is normal for us to have different ways of looking at things, but our differences are about things that are optional. But we are agreed concerning what is compulsory, that we are trusting in the shed blood of Jesus on the Cross to be justified, and the assurance of eternal life through the resurrection of Christ.

We have differences in the way we view the ministry of the Holy Spirit and how we receive the baptism with the Spirit, but we who are already baptised with the Spirit how we received him is now history.

 

[NBB]

John said, "Don't believe every spirit, but test them whether they be of God or not, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." So if you hear something you think is from God, how are you going to test it? Or are you just going to accept it because you have some feeling of peace and certainty about it?

I am not talking about asking the Holy Spirit whether it is right for you to go down to the dairy to buy a packet of potato chips. For practical living we can plan our own way and trust the Lord to guide our steps. We don't need to be led of the Lord like a mule with a bit and bridle.

I am talking about the difference between sound doctrine and fables. The Scripture says that many will not endure sound doctrine and will turn to fables. Joseph Smith was an ordinary young church member who wanted something more than what his church had to offer him, so he opened himself up to the 'voice" of God instead of seeking God through the Bible. We know that he was visited by an angel who dictated the Book of Mormon to him. That is an extreme example for sure, but I have heard of the harm done to many believers because a group of Fort Laudedale men heard the "voice of God" concerning the shepherding discipleship movement and the importance of having a covering of a church or another believer - something never mentioned in the New Testament. Being "slain in the Spirit" is missing from the New Testament. The only reference is what happened to the mob coming to arrest Jesus when He said, "I am who you are seeking", and they all fell backwards on the ground. Someone must have heard a voice telling them that being slain in the Spirit is of the Holy Spirit without checking to see whether it is mentioned in the New Testament.

Not trying to hear God voice because you may get deceived is so wrong.
Just one little hint from him for your life means everything.
Nobody says you listen to the first thing that talks to you, and start making religions or something.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Not trying to hear God voice because you may get deceived is so wrong.

Jesse Penn-Lewis a close friend of Evan Roberts of the Welsh Revival wrote a book called "War on the Saints", and she said that nine out of every ten impressions and voices come from the world, flesh and the devil. She had first hand experience of revival where many amazing things happened through the power of the Holy Spirit. Knowing this is the reason why I test every impression and voice that comes to me through a search of the Scripture to determine whether they come from God or not.

 

[NBB]

Jesse Penn-Lewis a close friend of Evan Roberts of the Welsh Revival wrote a book called "War on the Saints", and she said that nine out of every ten impressions and voices come from the world, flesh and the devil. She had first hand experience of revival where many amazing things happened through the power of the Holy Spirit. Knowing this is the reason why I test every impression and voice that comes to me through a search of the Scripture to determine whether they come from God or not.

I agree with you, it should be common knowledge in christians, that there are evil spirits and 'angels of light' trying to destroy you and deceive you, and the heart is deceitful. Worse than being attacked is being deceived, you are agreeing with your enemy without realizing, its bad.