Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Being "chosen" to go does not mean you will go as you point out and more will be invited to make the same choice (they will not be kidnapped into coming).
So, where those chosen to go the "elect" or were only those both chosen and who accepted the elect?
The parable does not mention the attendees going to the quartermaster to get the garment.God provides, but you still have to make the choice to go and pick up the garment before going in.
You say and I agree: “There was nothing in them, from them, or about them that influenced his love for them.” But under your scenario that would make God’s selection of the elect “arbitrary”?He didn't see it the way you described. Rather, it was the opposite. He saw these doctrines as doctrines of grace in every way. We are helpless and lost, depraved and condemned, yet God who sees all these things loves his people despite them. There was nothing in them, from them, or about them that influenced his love for them. He loved them freely and independently from anything he would ever see in them. Predestination gives us the comfort, encouragement, and joy that our salvation was on God's part in us, for us, and apart from us. Sure, we must do something, but that cannot happen without God's grace efficaciously drawing and working in us to do what he wants. One of the most encouraging truths is that if God has so chosen us, apart from anything in us, then all the means to bring us into his kingdom, including our perseverance, depends entirely on his grace. We can be assured that if we believe and trust in Christ, he will never forsake us and leave us. We may sin grievously, but God always disciplines and brings his children back to repentance, but never once did he forsake them in it.
Some people don't see it like that...
Right, we are not told how they got the garments, but if the master is going to homeless street people to invite them to the banquet he will have to supply garments for them.The parable does not mention the attendees going to the quartermaster to get the garment.
None of those verses talk about "predestined salvation", it talks about the role of Jews and Gentiles and how the latter can be added to the ChurchI read about something like this.... The guy was not elect and complained that it was not fair.
Romans 9:14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be.
Romans 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"
Oh, by the way, look at the context of these complaints...
Romans 9:11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of him who calls.
God calls, and the the hypothetical opponent of Paul seems to complain that election is not fair. I mean in election "who resists his will?"
I can completely understand those who hate the biblical doctrine of election. From our perspective, it is not fair.
Also read Romans 9:21. Paul defends his unfair doctrine of election by saying that the potter has the right to make any kind of pot that God chooses. How is that fair, what say does the pot have in that discussion?
Your statement that no one says "I guess I was predestined to go to hell" does have at least someone who seemed to be complaining about being predestined to go to hell in Romans 9. I am curious, do you think Pauls arguments were fair?
There is nothing in the banquet parables which suggests these street people strangers to Master had anything special over those who refused to go?This is a misunderstanding of election. Those whom God has chosen, he redeems. Sure, he invites sinners to come and repent, but only those that God works such repentance under the gospel are actually saved. The invites goes out to all the world, but only a few are chosen.
Yes, God plans and predestined to save all those who accept the invitation.You cannot be an elect without becoming a believer (Rom. 8:30). The point of election is that God has a plan in who he plans on saving, and he will save every one of them that he predestined to be saved.
That is talking to the existing elect Christians (Paul’s letter to Christians)."Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him." - Ephesians 1:3-4
Again: That is talking to the existing elect Christians (Paul’s letter to Christians)."In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved." - Ephesians 1:5-6
Again: That is talking to the existing elect Christians (Paul’s letter to Christians)."In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth." - Ephesians 1:7-10
Yes, all those who first hoped in Christ were predestined to inherit lots of stuff."In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory." - Ephesians 1:11-12
When they heard, they believed and gifts were showered on them."In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory." - Ephesians 1:13-14
There is no issue, telling a Christian they were predestine to eternal life and all that was established to bring around that eternal life.Our salvation was designed by the Father, accomplished by the Son, and applied by the Holy Spirit until we are completely and totally redeemed. The Father predestined us for eternal life, the Son accomplished the work necessary for us to have eternal life, and the Holy Spirit efficaciously draws us to faith and repentance for eternal life, and ultimately works in us perseverance to the end. The scheme of it all is a Trinitarian work. You contribute nothing to your salvation except the sin that made it necessary, everything else, even the will to choose Christ, was from God entirely. He worked in you to act according to his will. He applied the gospel to your heart so that you would believe. Apart from him, you would still be in your sins in open hostility to him for the rest of your life, running headlong into hell. The world is full of hostile sinners, from Adam, who willingly wants to run straight into judgment through their works and lives. The Christian who repents and believe, resting their only hope in Christ, is a miracle of God in that person by the sheer grace and love and mercy of God. You are a Christian because God planned it so. You are a Christian because God wanted it so. Show fruits that come with repentance so that you may confirm your calling and election (2 Pet. 1:10).
Start with Acts 13: 46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles."And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." - Acts 13:48
OK, but as it looks from Christ’s banquet parables everyone is being “drawn”?"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day." - John 6:44
Right we cannot blame God or Christ for the lost since they did all they could to help those who were just willing, but that does not mean the person themselves cannot walk away, God is not kidnapping them."And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day." - John 6:39
OK, the person has to be showered with gifts by God before coming to Christ, but the only thing keeping God from granting the sinner these gifts is the willingness to accept them as pure charity.And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” - John 6:65
Romans 9Let's listen to these words of the apostle:
You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? - Romans 9:19-24
None of those verses talk about "predestined salvation", it talks about the role of Jews and Gentiles and how the latter can be added to the Church
You know the "I love Jacob and I hated Esau" is about God choosing the nation of Israel rather than Edom? And the "vessel idea" comes from Jeremiah where God decided to get rid of the Kingdom of Judah for its sins?The verses talk about individual salvation, and do not talk about the role of anybody.
That is a short explanation, since you really need to study all of Romans especially chapters 9, 10 and 11. Also please look at individual laments in the Psalms and diatribes in general, I really cut those short.
Please just stay ways from anything Calvinistic. The "elect" are those Born again by the Blood of Jesus. It is those that have come to Jesus and believed upon him as the Messiah for forgiveness of sin and Reconcilation to Father. Jehovah did not prescribe a specefic people to Salvation. Jesus died for the sins of the world so that through Him we might be saved. Just forego anything Reformed and march in seeking the Kingdom of God through the footsteps of Jesus. Eat of His flesh and drink of His blood because without him, you can do nothing and will know nothing. It's only by him and through him that you will see and know Father.So are the elect like that group of people at the prayer meeting who decide who's saved and who's not? I Mean, how do they know who isn't saved? Did they vote? Sometimes saved people appear on the list and it is confusing.
Please just stay ways from anything Calvinistic. The "elect" are those Born again by the Blood of Jesus. It is those that have come to Jesus and believed upon him as the Messiah for forgiveness of sin and Reconcilation to Father. Jehovah did not prescribe a specefic people to Salvation. Jesus died for the sins of the world so that through Him we might be saved. Just forego anything Reformed and march in seeking the Kingdom of God through the footsteps of Jesus. Eat of His flesh and drink of His blood because without him, you can do nothing and will know nothing. It's only by him and through him that you will see and know Father.
Usually anyone using the term elect is in reverence to Calvinism considering they are literally the only ones that ever use it outside of scripture reading.Calvinists don't have a monopoly on the use of the word "elect"
By this same reasoning, I would think you're a Jehovah's witness because you used the word Jehovah.
It is kinda strange that those Calvinists use biblical language.Usually anyone using the term elect is in reverence to Calvinism considering they are literally the only ones that ever use it outside of scripture reading.
Much of my initial memory work was using the KJV, it's a word in the bible, so I used it.Usually anyone using the term elect is in reverence to Calvinism considering they are literally the only ones that ever use it outside of scripture reading.
Yes it is a word used in the KJV but just because somebody uses it doesn't make it Biblical. Calvinists misuse the term therefore it's unbiblical when used by them. Many use Bible language but that doesn't mean they are being or speaking Biblical. It's just like somebody having the written word of God. Just because they have the written, it doesn't always mean they have the word of God, but a counterfeit. Please don't jump to conclusions about what I have said. The Bible is the word of God.Much of my initial memory work was using the KJV, it's a word in the bible, so I used it.
Jesus is also the word of God, so it goes deeper. We can sit here and debate what is biblical, or live it. If there are two renditions to a scripture passage, apply both, and keep to the one with the most Godly fruit.Yes it is a word used in the KJV but just because somebody uses it doesn't make it Biblical. Calvinists misuse the term therefore it's unbiblical when used by them. Many use Bible language but that doesn't mean they are being or speaking Biblical. It's just like somebody having the written word of God. Just because they have the written, it doesn't always mean they have the word of God, but a counterfeit. Please don't jump to conclusions about what I have said. The Bible is the word of God.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?