The elect

[MariaJLM]

I read maybe a little too much KJV growing up, the word elect appears in that translation .. I think the Orthodox Study Bible I have uses a NKJV as its NT.

It does and as I said I misunderstood the original post anyway.

That said, only God knows who is saved.

 

[redleghunter]

That's easy for me to reconcile in my own head because I don't believe in the elect. I believe in an elect, but not the elect.

The difference is sometimes described as corporate election, meaning that there is a group that is elected, and individual election, the idea that certain individuals are elected.

I believe that God has decided that he will have a holy people but we cannot say who those individuals are.

Corporate election is a fine concept but not found in Apostolic New Testament teachings.

It can be inferred as the collection of the elect which would be Christ’s Church.

 

[redleghunter]

It does and as I said I misunderstood the original post anyway.

That said, only God knows who is saved.

Yes I would agree. God knows and God calls.

 

[HTacianas]

Corporate election is a fine concept but not found in Apostolic New Testament teachings.

It can be inferred as the collection of the elect which would be Christ’s Church.

You're right that corporate election can be inferred, but individual election is dispelled by both testaments. We are told to make our calling and election sure, but also warned that just as others were not spared, we may not be spared either.

 

[Hammster]

You're right that corporate election can be inferred, but individual election is dispelled by both testaments. We are told to make our calling and election sure, but also warned that just as others were not spared, we may not be spared either.

Corporate election means that Christ died for an idea, not for love of His people.

 

[redleghunter]

You're right that corporate election can be inferred, but individual election is dispelled by both testaments. We are told to make our calling and election sure, but also warned that just as others were not spared, we may not be spared either.

That’s quite a sewing together of disparate verses.

 

[Jonaitis]

I don't understand how some are okay with the thought that God chose certain people for certain blessings in the Old Testament (Isaac, not Ishmael; Jacob, not Esau) but has serious problems with God choosing certain individuals for salvation. Sure, they represented groups, but they were individuals too...

 

[HTacianas]

Corporate election means that Christ died for an idea, not for love of His people.

There are no corporately elected ideas. There is a corporately elected group.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

So are the elect like that group of people at the prayer meeting who decide who's saved and who's not? I Mean, how do they know who isn't saved? Did they vote? Sometimes saved people appear on the list and it is confusing.

Election is a mystery. No human believer can dictate who is elected and who isn't. Only God has that power and authority. Any person who says to anyone else that they are not elected is speaking from a demonic lying spirit.

I think people get the cart before the horse in this matter.

The Bible contains many promises so that any person taking hold of them can be assured that God will keep His promise to them. "Come let us reason together, though your sins be as scarlet they will be as white as snow". A person taking this promise to heart will have discussions with God, get right with Him and know that his sins are all forgiven.

"The one who comes to me I will in no wise cast out". This means that a person who turns to Christ, will not have Jesus say to him, "You are not elected so I am casting you out".

"Those who receive Christ, God gives them the power to become sons of God", means that the person who takes this promise to heart and receives Christ becomes a child of God. God will never say to such a person, "You are not elected, therefore you cannot be a child of mine."

So, this is Scriptural proof that the person who takes hold of God's promises will not fail to enter the kingdom of God. The Scripture says that "the promises of God are yes and amen". When God gives the nod, He is not being two-faced. "Amen" means, "so let it be". That promises is emphasized twice, and when God says the same thing twice, then we can know that the promise is carved in bronze and will never be annulled.

This is the mystery of election: When a sinner takes hold of the promise of God and turns to Christ and is converted, he or she then realises that he or she is one of the elect.

So, what is to be done? Take hold of God's promises first, accept His invitation to turn to Christ, and then consider your election afterward.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I don't understand how some are okay with the thought that God chose certain people for certain blessings in the Old Testament (Isaac, not Ishmael; Jacob, not Esau) but has serious problems with God choosing certain individuals for salvation. Sure, they represented groups, but they were individuals too...

It's easy to understand, Imagine that you aren't one of the elect, and now apply the golden rule.

 

[Jonaitis]

Corporate election means that Christ died for an idea, not for love of His people.

He was hoping that someone would make his blood redemptive...that someone would believe...smh

 

[Hammster]

There are no corporately elected ideas. There is a corporately elected group.

Right. But it’s an impersonal group which members are added later. So you can’t say that Christ loved you and died for you. Only that He loved “the elect” and people would be added later.

 

[HTacianas]

That’s quite a sewing together of disparate verses.

They are not disparate. They are related. Consider Romans:

Rom 11:22 - Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

Of the group the writer is addressing some are those who will continue, while some may well be cut off.

How can they all be the elect? But there is an elect.

 

[Jonaitis]

It's easy to understand, Imagine that you aren't one of the elect, and now apply the golden rule.

How can I imagine not being an elect, if the non-elect hate God? I wouldn't care, I would ride on that rebellion to the very gates of hell itself...

 

[redleghunter]

They are not disparate. They are related. Consider Romans:

Rom 11:22 - Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

Of the group the writer is addressing some are those who will continue, while some may well be cut off.

How can they all be the elect? But there is an elect.

The context was comparing the people of Israel with Gentiles.

If we take your point further we would have to conclude every person born Hebrew would be saved as Paul claims all Israel will be saved.

 

[Jonaitis]

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." - John 6:37

 

[Hammster]

The context was comparing the people of Israel with Gentiles.

If we take your point further we would have to conclude every person born Hebrew would be saved as Paul claims all Israel will be saved.

Context, context, context.

 

[HTacianas]

Right. But it’s an impersonal group which members are added later. So you can’t say that Christ loved you and died for you. Only that He loved “the elect” and people would be added later.

That's a very good explanation for it. I don't know if that's what you were trying to do, but that's what you've done.

 

[Hammster]

That's a very good explanation for it. I don't know if that's what you were trying to do, but that's what you've done.

I explained how impersonal it is. Thanks for the affirmation.

 

[HTacianas]

The context was comparing the people of Israel with Gentiles.

If we take your point further we would have to conclude every person born Hebrew would be saved as Paul claims all Israel will be saved.

We need only take the point as far as it is written. The writer warns his audience that they can be cut off just as others had been cut off. They cannot be both predestined and subject to being cut off at the same time.