The duration of hell and its purpose

[ozso]

Really, really? Are you serious? "So far I haven't come across any mention of them having changed their minds somewhere along the way."
Except for the quotes I have posted from the Jewish Encyclopedia, the Talmud and the Encyclopedia Judaica.

According to the rules at what point does posting the same thing over and over again become spamming?

 

[ozso]

See my Post #160.

You're doing the same attitude that Wendykvw is playing, wrongly suggesting that no one can understand God's written Word.

You mean properly completely understand 100% of it? Personally I find myself discovering new things when reading the bible. That's why it never gets old.

 

[hedrick]

Hart points out that aionos probably translates Hebrew that would mean in the world to come. While life in the world to come is in some sense eternal (though note my reservations) punishment need not be.

While punishment in the world to come need not be eternal, it could be. Just how what the various NT authors thought is a matter of lively debate among scholars, largely because the evidence is ambiguous. Matthew is the most likely to have believed in punishment that goes on forever.

 

[Der Alte]

I don’t contend that ainios means a finite period, though aion sometimes does. I think in the context of judgement it refers to things happening in the eschaton, one of the three meanings in TDNT. (The other two is things associated with God, and a weakened version of everlasting.) You’ve noted the parallel with eternal life. But I think that also means life in the eschaton. The main property of eternal life isn’t that it goes on forever, but that it is life with God, in God’s realm. I don’t think we know much about what that is, nor do we know whether it even has the same kind of linear time that we do here.
Hart points out that aionos probably translates Hebrew that would mean in the world to come. While life in the world to come is in some sense eternal (though not my reservations) punishment need not be.

I disagree on aion sometimes means a finite period. I'm not too big on the unsupported opinions of scholars or others. When/If a word is used figuratively that does not change the inherent meaning.

 

[Der Alte]

According to the rules at what point does posting the same thing over and over again become spamming?

When UR-ites, or others, post variations of the same ol' arguments and out-of-context proof texts they should not complain when I post the same response.

 

[hedrick]

I disagree on aion sometimes means a finite period. I'm not too big on the unsupported opinions of scholars or others. When/If a word is used figuratively that does not change the inherent meaning.

Amos 9:11 LXX. Days of old, referring to the time of David.

More commonly, the current world, which is long but bounded, and the future world.

 

[Der Alte]

Amos 9:11 LXX. Days of old, referring to the time of David.
More commonly, the current world, which is long but bounded, and the future world.

Days of Olam.. Not aion.

 

[ozso]

When UR-ites, or others, post variations of the same ol' arguments and out-of-context proof texts they should not complain when I post the same response.

They're not repeatedly making large clone posts of saved material. That's clearly spamming and it's against the rules.

 

[ozso]

The eternal conscious torment argument seems to always boil down to a Koine Greek word used to translate either written Hebrew or spoken Aramaic.

 

[wendykvw]

I figured what Jews believe about hell would probably best explained by asking a rabbi. And of course thanks to the wonder of youtube, one can listen to several rabbis explaining the concept of hell in Judaism. I always like to start out small and then expand. So lesson one for me is here in this less than five minute video. Warning to infernalists, you're not going to like this. This explanation is provided by Rabbi Moshe Zeldman.

He gives a good explanation and it very much resembles the restoration position.

 

[wendykvw]

.

 

[wendykvw]

I disagree on aion sometimes means a finite period. I'm not too big on the unsupported opinions of scholars or others. When/If a word is used figuratively that does not change the inherent meaning.

Where did you learn Greek?

 

[wendykvw]

Not all come will come to repentance.

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Genesis 6:7

So the LORD said, "I will annihilate these human beings whom I've created from the earth, including people, animals, crawling things, and flying creatures, because I'm grieving that I made them."

so in the days of Noah, so it will be in the end

2 Peter 3:7

But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

destruction - annihilation

The passages you shared are earthly punishments. Several passages in, Isaiah, Hebrews, Jeremiah, Philippians , Romans, and Revelation indicate repentance and confession and allegiance. All will know the Lord Jesus and will willing worship and honor Him. Notice it is not forced.


They will no longer need to teach each other to say, “Know the Lord!” because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord; for I will forgive their wrongdoing and never again remember their sins. Jeremiah 31:34

I , the Lord have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of My mouth in righteousness and shall not return, that unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear[allegiance]. Isa 45:23

Please answer if you believe God can heal the blind. Thank you.

 

[Der Alte]

Where did you learn Greek?

In the late 50s I was in the Army stationed in Germany. As a cook I had to oversee civilian workers. Germany-civilians so I tried speaking German which I had learned about 5 years earlier. One day one told me "You speak good German. We not German we Greek." Alright so teach me Greek. The first word, he pointed at a table and said. "trapezi" pronounced "trah-pay-zee." And went from there, not knowing I would study both Hebrew and Greek at the graduate level about 2 decades later. The Greek was fairly easy, the Hebrew not so much.

 

[Der Alte]

The eternal conscious torment argument seems to always boil down to a Koine Greek word used to translate either written Hebrew or spoken Aramaic.

What is your point? You think they got it wrong but you can do better? Remember Greek for them was a second language the language of commerce. They grew up in a society hearing Greek spoken on a regular basis.

 

[wendykvw]

In the late 50s I was in the Army stationed in Germany. As a cook I had to oversee civilian workers. Germany-civilians so I tried speaking German which I had learned about 5 years earlier. One day one told me "You speak good German. We not German we Greek." Alright so teach me Greek. The first word, he pointed at a table and said. "trapezi" pronounced "trah-pay-zee." And went from there, not knowing I would study both Hebrew and Greek at the graduate level about 2 decades later. The Greek was fairly easy, the Hebrew not so much.

Nice story, where did you go to graduate school to learn Hebrew and Greek?

 

[Der Alte]

Nice story, where did you go to graduate school to learn Hebrew and Greek?

The flag ship seminary of a large southern denomination. TSBTS.

 

[wendykvw]

What is TSBTS?

 

[ozso]

What is your point? You think they got it wrong but you can do better? Remember Greek for them was a second language the language of commerce. They grew up in a society hearing Greek spoken on a regular basis.

My point is an entire doctrine usually ends up falling back on a single word as its foundation.

 

[ozso]

What is TSBTS?

The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.