The duration of hell and its purpose

[dqhall]

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:10

Persian Zoroastrianism was the earliest religion to describe Satan.

The Egyptian Book of the Dead contained some early verses, then in 16th century BC it was a book of sayings buried in the tombs of some. Not everyone could afford the manuscript. These Egyptians thought those who had done good might live forever in the underworld and sometimes their spirit might fly above. They had to confess having done good and not evil. There were some negative confessions in the Book of the Dead that reminded scholars of the ten commandments.

TEN COMMANDMENTS AND THE BOOK OF THE DEAD | LEONARDO PAOLO LOVARI

These things were written before the earliest known Bible scriptures. Writing began with some crude symbols as early as 3000 BC.

 

[RileyG]

Forever. People do it to themselves. Not God.

 

[ozso]

Persian Zoroastrianism was the earliest religion to describe Satan.

The Egyptian Book of the Dead contained some early verses, then in 16th century BC it was a book of sayings buried in the tombs of some. Not everyone could afford the manuscript. These Egyptians thought those who had done good might live forever in the underworld and sometimes their spirit might fly above. They had to confess having done good and not evil. There were some negative confessions in the Book of the Dead that reminded scholars of the ten commandments.

TEN COMMANDMENTS AND THE BOOK OF THE DEAD | LEONARDO PAOLO LOVARI

These things were written before the earliest known Bible scriptures. Writing began with some crude symbols as early as 3000 BC.

What does that have to do with Revelation 20:10?

 

[dqhall]

What does that have to do with Revelation 20:10?

What does a beast, false prophets, and an antichrist have to do with God?

 

[ozso]

What does a beast, false prophets, and an antichrist have to do with God?

Cockalorum said: ↑
I don't like the use of the word forever, that implies that there will be an end to the punishment which is not biblical. the Bible says eternal punishment not forever punishment.

MMXX said: ↑
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:10

 

[ozso]

Jews in Israel, before and during the time of Jesus, there was a significant belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom.

[1]1925 Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the sons of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[“Soon” in this paragraph would be about 700 BC +/-, DA]​

Note: This is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any assumed/alleged bias of “modern” Christian translators. DA
…..This refutes the false narrative that the fifteen [15] times Jesus mentioned “Gehenna” He was referring to the valley of GeHinnom/Gehenna where trash and bodies were supposedly always burning.

”(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai [30 BC-90 AD] wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
“But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab [Talmud]. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
“… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b).[Talmud] “When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; [Talmud] comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10).
The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b)[Talmud].​

Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.

In all of that only the book of Judith and the book of Enoch talk about Everlasting punishment. And Enoch was written in the 2nd Century. So far there's only the book of Judith indicating belief of Everlasting Torment in the time of Jesus.

[2]1972 Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Link:
Gehinnom
http://www.jevzajcg.me/enciklopedia/Encyclopaedia Judaica, v. 07 (Fey-Gor).pdf

"Place of torment" is not "place of Everlasting torment". Again, nothing there to support your case.

[3]Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [i.e. followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]:
"And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.
Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.

There's nothing specifying Everlasting Torment there either.

 

[Der Alte]

In all of that only the book of Judith and the book of Enoch talk about Everlasting punishment. And Enoch was written in the 2nd Century. So far there's only the book of Judith indicating belief of Everlasting Torment in the time of Jesus.
"Place of torment" is not "place of Everlasting torment". Again, nothing there to support your case.
There's nothing specifying Everlasting Torment there either.

Sorry, you fail. The usual biased rubbish. All three paragraphs you quoted indicated eternal punishment.

Jewish Encyclopedia: "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment,

Talmud; they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]:
"And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.

Encyclopedia Judaica. In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.​

Where does the EJ say they will be restored?

 

[sawdust]

Your interpretation is based on the model you believe. You are qualifying the verse in 1 Corinthians to fit your model of interpretation. The Jewish nation had the same objection that you have. They rejected such an idea God would redeem all nations of people.

Your interpretation is based on the model you believe. You are qualifying the verse in 1 Corinthians to fit your model of interpretation. Many people get emotional over the idea there are some who will spend eternity conscious of having no life and that will be a torment to them.

Oh wow, look at that, we can both play the same game.

You asked:

Explain your view and the duration and how you came to that conclusion.

I did just that.

have a nice day.

 

[wendykvw]

Your interpretation is based on the model you believe. You are qualifying the verse in 1 Corinthians to fit your model of interpretation. Many people get emotional over the idea there are some who will spend eternity conscious of having no life and that will be a torment to them.

Oh wow, look at that, we can both play the same game.

You asked:


I did just that.

have a nice day.

Funny and true. It's called bible ping pong.and has been a game for around 2,000 yes..Even Paul and Peter disagreed. So what else is new.

 

[wendykvw]

Five questions:

1. Can you show me a passage from the Bible that says that repentance is possible in the resurrection? Is there any verse that you can with a clear conscience tell a person who hates and rejects our Lord that he will still have the opportunity to repent after he dies? Consider for example this in context of what our Lord says regarding the unpardonable sin and the Biblical language of being blotted out of the book of life. None of the apostles preach like this.

2. Do you believe Satan will be saved?

3. Why do you believe that salvation is eternal and damnation not when both are referred to in the same way? The fact that there is a direct contrast, along with everything else Scripture says indicate only two permanent states.

4. Christ atoned for the sins of the whole world. But if someone should reject that grace, as many do, what hope is there?

5. Why is the restoration aspect absent from clear passages such as Mark 16:16 and our Lord’s story of Lazarus and the rich man?

Sure. I love assignments.

 

[wendykvw]

The following verses are the 'bottom line' about the destiny of the abode of the wicked called "hell" (Hades).

Rev 20:14-15
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

Rev 21:4
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
KJV

Process of elimination -- no more death, and death cast into the future "lake of fire" means annihilation. Otherwise, death would not actually be destroyed and no more.

If death is annihilated in the future "lake of fire", then so is the abode of the wicked called "hell", since it is also cast into that "lake of fire" along with death.

Would this be the annihilation view?

 

[wendykvw]

Hell is eternal and it is made for the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction.

Annihilation view?

 

[ozso]

Sorry, you fail. The usual biased rubbish. All three paragraphs you quoted indicated eternal punishment.
Jewish Encyclopedia: "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment

I acknowledged Judith.

Talmud; they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]:
"And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.
Encyclopedia Judaica. In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. Where does the EJ say they will be restored?

Very sketchy as evidence that intertestamental Jews taught everlasting torment. Judith alone offers anything of substance.

 

[Der Alte]

I acknowledged Judith.
Very sketchy. Judith alone offers anything of substance.

Rubbish! Both encyclopedias supported eternal hell.
Talmud And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.

Jewish Encyclopedia: "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment

 

[ozso]

Rubbish! Both encyclopedias supported eternal hell.
Talmud And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.

Jewish Encyclopedia: "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment

That's not much to go by. When was that Talmud entry written?

 

[Der Alte]

That's not much to go by. When was that Talmud entry written?

Why is your question about the date of the Talmud entry irrelevant?

[1]1925 Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the sons of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[“Soon” in this paragraph would be about 700 BC +/-, DA]​

Note: This is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any assumed/alleged bias of “modern” Christian translators. DA
…..This refutes the false narrative that the fifteen [15] times Jesus mentioned “Gehenna” He was referring to the valley of GeHinnom/Gehenna where trash and bodies were supposedly always burning.

”(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai [30 BC-90 AD] wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
“But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab [Talmud]. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
“… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b).[Talmud] “When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; [Talmud] comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b)[Talmud].
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
= = = = = = = = = =
[2]1972 Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Link:
Gehinnom
http://www.jevzajcg.me/enciklopedia/Encyclopaedia Judaica, v. 07 (Fey-Gor).pdf
= = = = = = = = = =
[3]Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [i.e. followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]:
"And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.
Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.​

 

[ozso]

Why is your question about the date of the Talmud entry irrelevant?

The date is relevant because you're trying to prove that the Jews believed in eternal torment during the time of Jesus' ministry.

[1]1925 Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the sons of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[“Soon” in this paragraph would be about 700 BC +/-, DA]​

Note: This is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any assumed/alleged bias of “modern” Christian translators. DA
…..This refutes the false narrative that the fifteen [15] times Jesus mentioned “Gehenna” He was referring to the valley of GeHinnom/Gehenna where trash and bodies were supposedly always burning.

”(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai [30 BC-90 AD] wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
“But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab [Talmud]. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
“… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b).[Talmud] “When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; [Talmud] comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10).
The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b)[Talmud].​

Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.

In all of that only the book of Judith and the book of Enoch talk about Everlasting punishment. And Enoch was written in the 2nd Century. So far there's only the book of Judith indicating belief of Everlasting Torment in the time of Jesus.

[2]1972 Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Link:
Gehinnom
http://www.jevzajcg.me/enciklopedia/Encyclopaedia Judaica, v. 07 (Fey-Gor).pdf

"Place of torment" is not "place of Everlasting torment". Again, nothing there to support your case.

[3]Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [i.e. followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]:
"And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.
Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.

There's nothing specifying Everlasting Torment there either.

 

[wendykvw]

@Daniel9v9, Five questions:

1. Can you show me a passage from the Bible that says that repentance is possible in the resurrection?

1 Peter 3:18-19

18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison. (NIV)

Here we have a clear picture of postmortem evangelism where Christ is said to be preaching to people in hades who are obviously dead. That Christ descended into hell to preach to the dead was the view “almost universally adopted by the early Christian church”. The view that Christ preached to the lost in hades is one that was held by Eusebius, Athanasius, Ambrose, Jerome, Epiphanius, Taylor Lewis, Alfred Edersheim, and many more. Many of the greatest names in the first four or five centuries believed Christ went to hades to preach to the lost postmortem salvation.


Is there any verse that you can with a clear conscience tell a person who hates and rejects our Lord that he will still have the opportunity to repent after he dies? Consider for example this in context of what our Lord says regarding the unpardonable sin and the Biblical language of being blotted out of the book of life. None of the apostles preach like this.

You are asking two questions, but I will answer both. First, I have spoken to many people throughout the past 15 years about restoration who are not very fond of Christianity, the main reason is Christians. When I share the restoration view with them they are immediately drawn to God and fall in love with God. Why? They tell me that punishment in hell for a limited time is fair and reasonable. The unpardonable sin is simply one that God cannot deal with adequately in the absence of appropriate punishment. No paradon will be available to those who could commit this sin, and as you know or may not know many do not believe it is possible for anyone today to commit the unpardonable sin. Biblical scholars are not all in agreement on what this sin even is.


2. Do you believe Satan will be saved? I do not know, the bible does not contain everything, only God knows, but I am not against seeing all creation, and every created being restored to their pre-fallen condition. If God did wish to restore Satan, divine purging would take place.

3. Why do you believe that salvation is eternal and damnation not when both are referred to in the same way? The fact that there is a direct contrast, along with everything else Scripture says indicate only two permanent states.

The passage you refer to is Matthew 25:44-46, this passage is sending those who confessed Jesus as Lord, to hell. This is a problem for your view ECT. Restoration teaches that even those who confess Jesus, yet do not practice His principles, and neglect helping the less fortunate are in danger of hell fire. The fire will remove their indifference and lack of love. The fire is reformative and medicinal.

4. Christ atoned for the sins of the whole world. But if someone should reject that grace, as many do, what hope is there?

Start with Romans 8:38-39. The promises of God, even all of Israel will be saved. Romans 11:26


5. Why is the restoration aspect absent from clear passages such as Mark 16:16 and our Lord’s story of Lazarus and the rich man?


Luke 16. First, there’s nothing in the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus that negates the possibility of the rich man leaving his current state. Yes, he cannot cross over to where Lazarus is now, but that doesn’t mean he can never cross over. Restoration agrees that those who are punished in the next age will be separated from those who are not punished. But when the punishment is completed, they will all be together. While someone is in prison, they are not in the same location as those who are free but when their sentence is up, they are able to join their family and friends. The fact that Christ tells us the rich man cannot join Lazarus now does not mean the rich man can never join Lazarus.

Secondly, while the rich man cannot cross the chasm and join Lazarus, this does not mean Christ cannot make the journey as he holds the “keys of death and of Hades” (Rev 1:18).

 

[Jonaitis]

Hell will not be everlasting. It will come to an end. #13

Why did Jesus call it everlasting then?

Matthew 25:46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

 

[wendykvw]

Why did Jesus call it everlasting then?

Matthew 25:46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

It ultimately depends on the greek meaning, and which team you are on. IF you are on team ECT, they will ultimately find ways to teach that hell is for infinity without end. And the majority of those who teach this, are the Western Church Fathers who believed and taught eternal unending hell. Another strong influencer of this view is Augustine, who did not speak Greek and was not a fan of learning Greek.

IF you are on team restoration, then you will look to the early Eastern church fathers whose native language Was Greek, and so they need not learn greek, it was already their native language.

Scholars will ultimately be arguing until their death, and when they find out for sure, they can not come back to tell us what they found out.

Here are a few English translations, that have translated eternal as a period of time or age:

Young's Literal Translation
And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

Worrell New Testament
"And these shall go away into age-lasting punishment, but the righteous into age-lasting life."


The New Testament, a Translation, 1938

“And these will go away into eonian correction, but the righteous into eonian life.”

The New Testament, A New Translation, 1980

“Then they will begin to serve a new period of suffering, but God’s faithful will enter upon their heavenly life.”

Weymouth New Testament
"And these shall go away into the Punishment of the Ages, but the righteous into the Life of the Ages."

Concordant Literal New Testament, 1983

And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian.”

Rotherham Emphasized Bible, 1959

“And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, But the righteous into age-abiding life.”