stuart lawrence
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The Double Message of Eternal Security.
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stuart lawrence
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They will say anything to defend their beliefs.
I've even been told rom ch7 does not concern the moral law.
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The sense of my security is in Christ, and believing in Him.
He has empowered me to live my life according to the Spirit, to which I am no longer a slave to the bondage of sin that dwells in my flesh, obeying it's sinful lust's, but rather I am empowered to live in dominion over the sin in my flesh, and obeying the leading of the Spirit.
Example, rather than obey the desire to steal from people, I now obey the leading of the Spirit to love them and give to those in need.
This is faith, expressing itself in love.
- This is practicing righteousness.
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7
- He who practices righteousness is righteous
Here is a snapshot for you, of the Day of judgement when you will be judged according to your deeds.
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
for I was hungry and you gave Me food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me.’
Matthew 25:31-34
These people inherited the kingdom of God, because they loved people.
They received God's love and Spirit and gifts and talents, and did something with it.
They expressed they love of God, to others.
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
for I was hungry and you gave Me no food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
I was a stranger and you did not take Me in,
naked and you did not clothe Me,
sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
Matthew 25:41
These servants of His, on the other hand, were those who received His love and His Spirit with all the gifting's and talents but never did one thing to express His love to others.
- let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.
18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 1 John 3:18-23
20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also. 1 John 4:20-21
JLB
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stuart lawrence
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Having the ability to reel off an immense amount of scripture does not mean you understand the message. No one could reel it off better than the Pharisees when Jesus walked this earth. However, they did not understand the heart of the message contained in the letter.
Did Saul the pharisee break the commandment not to steal? I'm sure he didn't. Yet Saul the pharisee was the worst of sinners according to Paul the Christian.
Did the Pharisees of Jesus day specifically break the commandment not to steal? Not directly( though indirectly) did that mean they obeyed the law?
Hardly, they were full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean on the inside.
Many have such a shallow understanding of what sin is. Incredible really, as the law is placed in the Christians heart and written in their mind.
And of course, according to the Bible, those who do not live under a righteousness of observing the law, will sin far less than those who do.
In my experience, those who most earnestly infer righteousness is observing the law, least reflect what Christ termed the higher points of the law in their lives. As that was true in Jesus day, so it is today also
Did Saul the pharisee break the commandment not to steal? I'm sure he didn't. Yet Saul the pharisee was the worst of sinners according to Paul the Christian.
Did the Pharisees of Jesus day specifically break the commandment not to steal? Not directly( though indirectly) did that mean they obeyed the law?
Hardly, they were full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean on the inside.
Many have such a shallow understanding of what sin is. Incredible really, as the law is placed in the Christians heart and written in their mind.
And of course, according to the Bible, those who do not live under a righteousness of observing the law, will sin far less than those who do.
In my experience, those who most earnestly infer righteousness is observing the law, least reflect what Christ termed the higher points of the law in their lives. As that was true in Jesus day, so it is today also
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stuart lawrence
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Many come on the internet having read the Bible extensively. They believe they are qualified to be teachers of the word. Yet they only gave a superficial understanding of the letter. They cannot discern the heart of the message contained in the letter. Therefore, they woodenly recite the letter, demanding of you what they do not demand of themselves. What they demand of you, has no bearing on the reality of their own lives.
On the plus side. It is good they are on the internet, rather than attempting to preach outside of it. Few, if any change their minds about anything on websites such as these. Therefore these people cause little damage to others.
Tobeloved, Dan. I am in NO WAY referring to either of you!
On the plus side. It is good they are on the internet, rather than attempting to preach outside of it. Few, if any change their minds about anything on websites such as these. Therefore these people cause little damage to others.
Tobeloved, Dan. I am in NO WAY referring to either of you!
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stuart lawrence
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The sheep and the goats are good to refer to.
The true sheep don't make demands of others they do not even try to attain to in their own lives. The true sheep do not reel off the letter pat, demanding of others what they do not demand of themselves. For the true sheep want to build other sheep up, not crush them with impossible demands, for that is not loving your neighbour, it is not feeding him.
The true sheep don't preach a message that in reality says:
Look at me, I do many good works and obey the law, you must attain to where I am at.
No, the true sheep flee from such as that.
Those who can only have a superfluous/ shallow understanding of the letter, cannot understand sin not being your master for you are not under law but under grace. So they scour the Bible, desperately trying to find verses that can be misapplied and used to place you back under a righteousness of observing the law. For that is all their little grey cells can understand.
They cannot comprehend a message that states sin shall not be your master if you know sin cannot condemn you.
There are the sheep, and there are the goats. The true sheep accept the true message, and will not crush their neighbour with demands they themselves do not even try to attain to
The true sheep don't make demands of others they do not even try to attain to in their own lives. The true sheep do not reel off the letter pat, demanding of others what they do not demand of themselves. For the true sheep want to build other sheep up, not crush them with impossible demands, for that is not loving your neighbour, it is not feeding him.
The true sheep don't preach a message that in reality says:
Look at me, I do many good works and obey the law, you must attain to where I am at.
No, the true sheep flee from such as that.
Those who can only have a superfluous/ shallow understanding of the letter, cannot understand sin not being your master for you are not under law but under grace. So they scour the Bible, desperately trying to find verses that can be misapplied and used to place you back under a righteousness of observing the law. For that is all their little grey cells can understand.
They cannot comprehend a message that states sin shall not be your master if you know sin cannot condemn you.
There are the sheep, and there are the goats. The true sheep accept the true message, and will not crush their neighbour with demands they themselves do not even try to attain to
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But scripture always trumps mere opinion. You would be wise to read more scripture with an OPEN mind to revise your liberal theory. It is the Word of God and only His meaning is truth. Find out what His truth is. I know you pray to that end, but you still won't let go.
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SBC
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No; NOT "WE (believers)" and Not so simple.
1 John 1 ~ is often taken out of context.
1 John 1 ~ careful examination reveals Several are specifically mentioned in a letter.
The RED TEXT ....is WHO the specific application is being apply to.
The BLACK TEXT ....is 1 John 1 (KJV)
1John.1
(we, we, we, our we, our,...applies to the writer and his brothers)
[1] That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
(life....applies to Jesus)
[2] (For the life was manifested,
(we...applies to the writer and his brothers)
and we have seen it, and bear witness,
(you... applies to those hearing the letter)
and shew unto you
(eternal life....applies to Jesus)
that eternal life,
(Father...applies to Heavenly Unseen God)
which was with the Father,
(us...applies to the writer and his brothers)
and was manifested unto us
(That..applies to Jesus)
3] That which
(we, we...applies to the writer and his brothers)
we have seen and heard declare we
(you, ye...applies to those hearing the letter)
unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with
(us, our... applies to the writer and his brothers)
us: and truly our fellowship is with
(Father, his...applies to Heavenly unseen God)
the Father, and with his
(Son, Jesus, Christ...applies to Son of God, Jesus Christ, God seen in the world)
Son Jesus Christ.
(we...applies to the writer and his brothers)
[4] And these things write we unto
(you, your...applies to those hearing the letter.)
you, that your joy may be full.
(we...applies to the writer and his brothers)
[5] This then is the message which we have heard
(him...applies to Jesus)
of him
(you...applies to those hearing the letter)
and declare unto you,
(God, light, him...applies to the Lord God)
that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
(we, we...applies to anyone claiming belief in the Lord God, without the light in them)
[6] If we say that we have fellowship
(him... applies to the Lord God)
with him, and walk in darkness,
(we...applies to anyone claiming belief, in the Lord God, without having the light in them)
we lie, and do not the truth:
(we...applies to anyone claiming belief in the Lord God, with having the light in them)
[7] But if we walk
(light, he, light ... applies to the Lord God)
in the light, as he is in the light,
(we...applies to those in the light having faith in the Lord God)
we have fellowship
(one, another...applies to those in the light having faith in the Lord God)
one with another,
(Jesus, Christ, Son...applies to the one IN the Light, and the Light, the Lord God)
and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son
(cleanseth...applies to an act accomplished BY the Lord God)
cleanseth
(us...
applies to ANYONE, IN the Light, cleansed from ALL sin, BY the Light, the Lord God)
us from all sin.
(we...applies to ANYONE, NOT in the Light.)
[8] If we say,
(we, we...applies to ANYONE, NOT in the light.)
that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves,
(us...is ANYONE, NOT in the light, the light, not in them, are without the truth, ie without Jesus)
and the truth is not in us.
(we, our...applies to those who are in sin, believe they have sinned and a confessor of their sins )
[9] If we confess our sins,
(he...applies to the Lord)
he is faithful and just to forgive
(us, our, us...applies to ANYONE who believes they are in sin, have sinned)
us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(we, we, we....applies to ANYONE who DOES not believe they have ever sinned)
[10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make
(him, his, word...applies to the Lord)
him a liar, and his word
(us...applies to ANYONE who DOES not beleive they ever sinned)
is not in us.
1 John 1 is commonly misinterpreted:
Particularly; Verses 8 and 10.
The Scripture is specifically speaking of those NOT IN FAITH, those who don't believe they have sinned, those who don't believe they have sin, have not confessed they sinned; thus believe they DO NOT require the Light in them, thus DO NOT have the truth in them.
Those with the TRUTH in them, have already acknowledged and confessed their sin. They have been cleansed of their sin, and precisely WHY they do have the Light / Truth in them.
Those WHO are cleansed, no longer have SIN IN THEM; they're CLEANSED!
1 John 1 is a favorite for SOME CHRISTIANS to APPLY to OTHER CHRISTIANS!
Calling them deceived and claiming the truth is not in them.
WHEN other Christians claim they DO NOT SIN ANY MORE.
1John1
[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1
[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
I will BOLDLY SAY, "I have no sin" !
And no, I am not deceived: I am CLEANSED!
I am CLEANSED precisely because I have the TRUTH in me.
I am CLEANSED precisely because I have the LIGHT in me.
I am CLEANSED precisely because I TRUST to BELIEVE and submitted in FAITHFULNESS; TO GOD.
I am CLEANSED precisely because I CONFESSED my sin TO GOD!
I am CLEANSED precisely because I sought and received FORGIVENESS "OF MY SINS".
I am CLEANSED precisely because Jesus' BLOOD CLEANSED me of my sins.
I am CLEANSED precisely because the Lord IS FAITHFUL and TRUE!
The Spirit of my Lord dwells IN ME.
My Lord does not dwell IN SIN!
For a SAVED and BORN AGAIN Christian to CLAIM "HE STILL SINS"....
Is a man WHO is claiming; The Lords CLEANSING and POWER within a man is NOT SUFFICIENT!
Is a man WHO is claiming: The Lord IS NOT Faithful!
And that that man STILL "stands" AGAINST God, without trust or belief!
Pitiful! For one to be SO, ignorant of not knowing and not trusting Gods Mighty Power within a man!
God IS ON A MISSION! His is DIVIDING daily who is with Him from who is not with Him.
Luke.12
- [51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
It is not secret; God is effecting CHANGES "within" a faithful man; unaware, unseen by the corrupt world and without the worlds permission, or without knowledge or permission of those in human authority; while the world simply sees as they always have seen; ie a human man walking around; men are being made WHOLE.
Many have become "internally" changed; WHOLLY cleansed, made sanctified, justified;
prepared as acceptable to God; whom God Himself declares such a man IS;
Born of Him; ie Born of God.
And further revealed that a man WHO IS BORN OF GOD....CAN NOT SIN!
1John.3
- [9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[18] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
Praise and Glory to Lord God Almighty ~ One Lord God Almighty ~ One who secures our Life for ever!
1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
God Bless;
SBC
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stuart lawrence
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Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness, for everyone who believeth
Rom10:4
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin.
Rom3:20
If you would like more, just ask.
I'm not sure you believe all of the word of God is truth.
For you believe if a person transgresses the law they are placed in a condemned state, or threatened to be. Therefore you believe a righteousness of observing the law exists for the christian
In England, if a parent threw a child out of the family home, or threatened to every time they slipped up and broke one of the rules, social services would withdraw the child from the family home for its own good.
Yet that is how some preach God treats his children
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SBC
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No problem. I am aware a four minute read is too cumbersomeness for some people.
Perhaps it will be beneficial to another. So, short and sweet for you, replying to your post;
Not true.
Agree. However it is without benefit, if one does not comprehend who all the different characters are; and their standing.
God Bless,
SBC
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stuart lawrence
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I will listen to you, if you can prove to me you understand the message contained in the letterNo problem. I am aware a four minute read is too cumbersomeness for some people.
Perhaps it will be beneficial to another. So, short and sweet for you, replying to your post;
Not true.
Agree. However it is without benefit, if one does not comprehend who all the different characters are; and their standing.
God Bless,
SBC
Why are sinfull passions aroused in people by the law if they live under it?
Rom7:5
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stuart lawrence
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So you will boldly say you have no sin?No problem. I am aware a four minute read is too cumbersomeness for some people.
Perhaps it will be beneficial to another. So, short and sweet for you, replying to your post;
Not true.
Agree. However it is without benefit, if one does not comprehend who all the different characters are; and their standing.
God Bless,
SBC
So you boldly say you never have an impure thought, you never have an unkind thought about anyone, you never say an unkind word to anyone. You faultlessly, without slip love all those you come into contact with, including those who would malign, persecute or mistreat you.
You are the first person I have come accross in over forty years of going to various churches who has reached a state of such holiness.
What are you doing on the Internet?
You are wasted here
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stuart lawrence
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I've given you a winner, for as I said. You deserve to be top of that list.
And you made an excellent point
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Dan61861
7 days without God, makes one weak.
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Yes, John is addressing us...the believers. He is telling us how to identify the wolves among the sheep. John is saying If a believer says this, he truly isn't a believer. Later John identifies them as the anti-christ spirit.
If a believer has faith that Christ died for them than that believer is not under the Law. He is walking in Christ, in the Spirit, he is walking in faith. Yet when this believer does sin, he prays to Christ who is faithful to forgive him.
If one is a believer in Christ, yet he than turns to the Law to find righteousness. Christ sacrifice becomes to no effect for such a man. His faith was weak. He didn't trust that Jesus has died for all of his sins. He is finding righteousness where there is no righteousness, in himself. This is when a man is willfully sinning. He has made the cross of Christ into nothingness.
In Christ
Daniel
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Dan61861
7 days without God, makes one weak.
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This is completely and utterly wrong.
A man that walks after the flesh is not a believer.
A believer is one who believes the Gospel, he has faith that Christ has done all for him. He walks in the Holy Spirit, in the faith that by God's grace, in faith in Christ he has eternal life. If he sins, he prays to Christ who is faithful to forgive him. A just man falls seven (innumerable) times.
In Christ
Daniel
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SBC
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Already did. That's what happens when you are sin, have sin, are forgiven, are washed and cleansed in Jesus' Blood, saved and become born again of Gods Seed.
What is your point? Having an impure thought, an unkind thought is a sin?
Really? That is what you supposedly asked God to forgive you for when (I will presume you might claim), became saved? born again?
Because WHEN the Lord saved my soul and quickened my spirit; it was because I was born in sin. I did not know him. I did not believe in Him. I did not worship Him.
In case you didn't know; that applies to every man born of the earth.
Well, I do not remember not believing; but personally I have never seen or heard of an account of (perhaps saved John the Baptist and Jesus), who were born believing.
God has provided a WAY for every part of a man to become made WHOLE; heart, body, soul, spirit. It's His devised WAY, that I have submitted to. And perhaps unlike you, I trust the Lord is faithful, in making me WHOLE, and acceptable to Him, and accessible to me with awesome fellowship!
1 Cor 1
[9] God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
I further trust the Lords forgiveness is sufficient, as He has said, and taught, for the forgiveness of ALL of my sins. Period.
I further trust the Lords Word, that my soul IS restored and reconciled unto Him.
I further trust the Lords Word, that He HAS quickened my spirit.
I further trust the Lords Word, that His Seed, His Spirit is within me.
I further trust the Lords Word, that my body is dead, sanctified, justified, with Christ.
....( and FYI, the dead CAN NOT SIN!)
I further trust the Lords Word, that I sin no more! that I can not sin!
1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Sadly you are not the first person I have come across that teaches the Lords grace, forgiveness, restoring, quickening, power, is a fail; and that the man himself who claims to be saved and born again; teaches in reality, he is the SAME old weak repetitive sinner! Sad! Sad! Sad!
Exod.22
[31] And ye shall be holy men unto me:
Lev 11
[44] For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1 Pet 1
[15] But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
[16] Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Matt 6
[48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
1 Thes 5
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Speaking the Lords TRUTH.
Obviously not here for you. However there are others aside from you who want to hear and see and learn how to understand.
Matt 13
[13] Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Oh my. Having a sin moment?
God Bless,
SBC
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