The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[Kenny'sID]

After a person is made regenerate (by the Spirit) they still sin, but they are convicted of their sin and seek forgiveness and repent (even if only for a while). If they sin again, they repeat the process of seeking forgiveness and repenting. This process continues throughout the Christian life until they die.

God forgives 7X70 so you have it right. As long as we act right we are saved, when we do not, we are not.

Or, we have eternal security if we act right eternally. But since we can change that at anytime, there is no eternal security.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Kenny'sID]

But if God changes our nature so we do His will because of becoming like Jesus, how can we still "not act right"?

What you are saying there is God is going to control us. He will never change our nature to that point. Our nature should/will change, sure, but only to the degree we let it, and we can change it back in a heartbeat if we choose to.

 

[Albion]

Not sure what you want me to say? I know people who do

All right. And I know a couple of people who insist that the Earth is flat. So what?

Well, just this--

If I were to start posting that science has proven the Earth to be flat or that most scientists say it's flat or that this is the normal view among Americans...

I would be making a rare exception seem to be the rule and settled fact, wouldn't I? That's also what I would be doing with the doctrines of Sola Fide and Eternal Security if I were to say this:

Can we live in perpetual/continual, say...10 commandment type sin once saved, without asking forgiveness/repenting, and still go to heaven after we die?

or this:

I know some people who say that think , and there are some here who feel we can do those things and still be saved. If you think I would sit here and lie through my teeth about that, then there isn't much sense in this conversation.

I asked you to identify them. It's easy to say "I know a guy...."

But I can see that I'm not getting anywhere explaining this and not likely to if it goes any further. But as I said before, a few people you know may say what you report, but they're wrong. They are speaking only for themselves and you have made their POV seem to be the Bible's own truth and the same view as held by the people of a number of reformed churches. That's wrong.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[stuart lawrence]

Why mention just two sins?
If you fail to love your enemies, those who persecute, malign and lie about you. If you fail to love everyone you meet, will you be sent to hell if you haven't repented of any lack of love for all others?
Loving others is the second greatest commandment, and the command is clear, you must love your enemies.
What if you die having not repented of an impure thought, will you be sent to hell? That breaks one of the TC
What if you haven't repented of inviting friends and family home for a meal, rather than the poor, blind, lame and beggars? Will you be sent to hell for that Unrepentant sin?
Don't just stop at two, reel them all off!

 

[Kenny'sID]

Then you technically do not believe any different than Eternal Security Proponents.
The issue with Eternal Security is that it justifies evil and yet on one hand it makes it appear like it doesn't (When such a thing is not true).

The problem in saying that you can commit even just one sin (like say murder, lying, or adultery) and still be saved is still giving people a license to sin. When they think they can get away with one sin, then they will then think they can get away with committing many sins (With the thinking they are saved).

Again, how many sins did Adam commit before he caused a separation between God and man?

As for Jesus's words in Matthew 5:28-30, I actually was summarizing what Jesus was saying. He actually did not say we would be in danger of hell fire. He said that it is better to pluck out your eye than to be cast into hell fire. In other words, it is so bad and so serious that we have to be willing to metaphorically cut out our eyes (cut out all things that can make us to stumble into looking upon women in lust). If it was not that serious to look upon a woman in lust, then Jesus would just simply say, "Continue to pay lip service to me and do not worry about looking at women in lust on occasion the rest of your life."

This could mean I can occasionally be a heroine taker or porn watcher and God would be cool with that. But that is not what God wants from us. He wants to completely change our lives for the better and not for the worse.


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Look at all that explanation...it's just not complicated as people seem to want to make it. Actually they have to complicate it to make eternal security work.

As to Adam and his one sin which seems to be the basis of all that, why even bring that up, we are under a covenant with God now...how it worked with Adam is not relevant.

 

[stuart lawrence]

A child is taught by loving parents not to lie, they must tell the truth.
The child breaks the rule and lies. Is the child thrown out of the family home until they repent/ say sorry for lying?

Seems some people think God has less love, mercy and compassion for his children than loving parents have for theirs

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Look at all that explanation...it's just not complicated as people seem to want to make it. Actually they have to complicate it to make eternal security work.

As to Adam and his one sin which seems to be the basis of all that, why even bring that up, we are under a covenant with God now...how it worked with Adam is not relevant.

I believe it is because God does not change in regards to morality; And Satan does not change his major lies or tactics.

Since the garden, Satan is still convincing people of the same lie he said to Eve. He said, "Yea, ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4).

In other words, Satan's lie is still be pushed today.
You can sin and not die spiritually.
You are saying the same thing as the Eternal Security proponent.
You think one sin is different than many sins (When this is not the case).


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[Kenny'sID]

I think there is a Biblical version of eternal security. It does not mean we can do anything at all and still go to Heaven. It means God succeeds in correcting us > Hebrews 12:4-11 < so we are not going to do evil. We may do wrong things of distraction and weakness, but less and less as we become conformed to the image of Jesus. Being conformed to the image of Jesus is included in Biblical eternal security.

Then it's not eternal security.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why mention just two sins?
If you fail to love your enemies, those who persecute, malign and lie about you. If you fail to love everyone you meet, will you be sent to hell if you haven't repented of any lack of love for all others?
Loving others is the second greatest commandment, and the command is clear, you must love your enemies.
What if you die having not repented of an impure thought, will you be sent to hell? That breaks one of the TC
What if you haven't repented of inviting friends and family home for a meal, rather than the poor, blind, lame and beggars? Will you be sent to hell for that Unrepentant sin?
Don't just stop at two, reel them all off!

And obviously you think it is impossible to love God and love others.
With men this impossible, but with God all things are possible.
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Romans 13:14).

1 John 3:15 essentially says if we do not love our brother, no eternal life abides in us.


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[stuart lawrence]

And obviously you think it is impossible to love God and love others.
With men this impossible, but with God all things are possible.
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

1 John 3:15 essentially says if we do not love our brother, no eternal life abides in us.


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Answer the questions posed please. This is your thread.

If someone doesn't repent of inviting friends and family home for a meal, rather than the blind, lame and beggars, will they be cast into hell?
If someone doesn't repent of an impure thought, will they be cast into hell?
If someone doesn't repent of not loving ALL people they come into contact with, will they be cast into hell?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Answer the questions posed please. This is your thread.

If someone doesn't repent of inviting friends and family home for a meal, rather than the blind, lame and beggars, will they be cast into hell?
If someone doesn't repent of an impure thought, will they be cast into hell?
If someone doesn't repent of not loving ALL people they come into contact with, will they be cast into hell?

Please give verses so we can discuss what the words of Scripture actually say vs. you just relaying what you think they say.

Thank you.


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[stuart lawrence]

Please give verses please so we can discuss what the words of Scripture actually say.

Thank you.


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So now will you try and twist scripture to excuse certain sins!

You surely know that impure thoughts/ lust break the commandment: thou shalt not covet. If not read rom7:7&8

You surely know Jesus commanded not to invite friends and family home for a meal, but rather the poor, lame, blind and beggars.
And you surely know Jesus commanded to love your enemies.
Don't be Antinomian here. Don't single out a couple of sins and ask if they are not repented of will you be sent to hell.
Answer my questions please

 

[Kenny'sID]

I asked you to identify them. It's easy to say "I know a guy...."

I know them personally and there are some here that I'd probably best not mention. I already went into if you think I'm lying, we are done with this part of the conversation at least. There is just no reason to continue it. Actually I know plenty, and I'm thinking you may be a little sheltered because you don't....IOW, I'm a bit surprised you don't FWIW, but I know that won't convince you, and only something I can't divulge will

Even without "those people" RS is still not even close to a viable doctrine. But if you want to base it all on something that I have good reason either to not divulge or can't prove through no fault of my own, and call that a win, go right ahead. I think it's bit unfair to not believe me, oh well, but on top of that, to not to be willing to move beyond something that doesn't make or break the issue.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I think the best approach is to read passages such as Romans 8.38-39 and trust it and enjoy it, for God's glory.

 

[Blade]

Many times when I discuss Eternal Security, I hear two different messages. One message says a true Christian is defined by loving Jesus and by being more Christ like. Yet, another message within Eternal Security says you can die in the unrepentant sin of lying, or the sin of unforgiveness, etc. and still be saved.

What doth thou sayeth? ...

Well how can you love someone you dont know? Saved after you repent ..yes... but right in love? We read we pray we seek.. fellowship.

As for your 2 questions.. both are right. Think about this. Were asking questions that no man has the real answer for. Going back and forth getting answers from what we each think that verse really means. So for me I am not going to ask some man/woman about my "Eternal Security" in which they have no say what so ever

My fellowship with my Father and Jesus and the sweet sweet Holy Spirit...sorry its hard to explain. That thought that I could lose salvation.. its not there.. as if I cant find it. This is when I am in fellowship. Now getting lost in life and sin.. DUH.. then that thought can pop up.. but.. again.. around Him.. oh I have to.. I have to.. HE IS SO WONDERFUL SO BEAUTIFUL.. Father sorry.. I wish I could not have to look up every word that fails to describe Him...

So.. if these thoughts ideas pop in your head.. go to HIM and ask.. remember.. dont go by how you feel.. KNOW HE IS FAITHFUL!!

We have some kind of sin we forgot to repent of or didnt know it was sin. But can some sin keep you out? If it got past the blood of a God. This is how I see it

 

[stuart lawrence]

Jason has previously repeatedly stated a law of righteousness exists for the Christian concerning 1050 NT commands.
So if he is right, I hope you all know them off by heart and repent anytime you break any of them. Otherwise, it's going to get hot for you in the hereafter!

 

[ripple the car]

I believe that we can lose our salvation, and that our salvation is not simply an event based on faith, but a life-long relationship based on faith and works, fueled by grace. What many Protestants would say is "sanctification", I would identify as our salvation, being worked out, and realized, if we are faithful until the end.

CT06

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well how can you love someone you dont know? Saved after you repent ..yes... but right in love? We read we pray we seek.. fellowship.

As for your 2 questions.. both are right. Think about this. Were asking questions that no man has the real answer for. Going back and forth getting answers from what we each think that verse really means. So for me I am not going to ask some man/woman about my "Eternal Security" in which they have no say what so ever

My fellowship with my Father and Jesus and the sweet sweet Holy Spirit...sorry its hard to explain. That thought that I could lose salvation.. its not there.. as if I cant find it. This is when I am in fellowship. Now getting lost in life and sin.. DUH.. then that thought can pop up.. but.. again.. around Him.. oh I have to.. I have to.. HE IS SO WONDERFUL SO BEAUTIFUL.. Father sorry.. I wish I could not have to look up every word that fails to describe Him...

So.. if these thoughts ideas pop in your head.. go to HIM and ask.. remember.. dont go by how you feel.. KNOW HE IS FAITHFUL!!

We have some kind of sin we forgot to repent of or didnt know it was sin. But can some sin keep you out? If it got past the blood of a God. This is how I see it

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17).
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).
"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "
(1 Timothy 6:3-4).
"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).
"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).
"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).
"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).
"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).
"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).


And there are of course many more verses like these, as well.


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