The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[Kenny'sID]

I believe it is because God does not change in regards to morality; And Satan does not change his major lies or tactics.

Since the garden, Satan is still convincing people of the same lie he said to Eve. He said, "Yea, ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4).

In other words, Satan's lie is still be pushed today.
You can sin and not die spiritually.
You are saying the same thing as the Eternal Security proponent.
You think one sin is different than many sins (When this is not the case).

I have no idea how that relates to the eternal security topic. One sin different than many? I'm lost

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jason has previously repeatedly stated a law of righteousness exists for the Christian concerning 1050 NT commands.
So if he is right, I hope you all know them off by heart and repent anytime you break any of them. Otherwise, it's going to get hot for you in the hereafter

Paul is talking about the Old Covenant Law and not New Covenant Law.
But I am proud to admit to upholding God's laws as a part of his salvation.
It is better than doing evil and sin with the thinking one is saved (Which is a doctrine of immorality).

Oh, and if you need that list of commands from the New Covenant again, here ya go.
I have nothing to hide.

1,050 New Testament Commands | Christian Assemblies International


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[Kenny'sID]

I believe that we can lose our salvation, and that our salvation is not simply an event based on faith, but a life-long relationship based on faith and works, fueled by grace. What many Protestants would say is "sanctification", I would identify as our salvation, being worked out, and realized, if we are faithful until the end.

CT06

And see how few words it took for GS to state the simple truth.

That's all it usually takes.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I have no idea how that relates to the eternal security topic. One sin different than many? I'm lost

By what you have said for, you have given me the impression that you believe in:

"The Non-OSAS - Christians Cannot Be Separated From God by Just One Sin" type belief.


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[stuart lawrence]

Paul is talking about the Old Covenant Law and not New Covenant Law.
But I am proud to admit to upholding God's laws as a part of his salvation.
It is better than doing evil and sin with the thinking one is saved (Which is a doctrine of immorality).

Oh, and if you need that list of commands from the New Covenant again, here ya go.
I have nothing to hide.

1,050 New Testament Commands | Christian Assemblies International


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Why are you responding about what Paul wrote?

You believe the Christian is under a law of righteousness concerning 1050 NT commands.
However, as soon as I put a couple before you and ask if a believer may enter heaven if they die without repenting of them, you refuse to answer

 

[Kenny'sID]

The problem in saying that you can commit even just one sin (like say murder, lying, or adultery) and still be saved is still giving people a license to sin. When they think they can get away with one sin, then they will then think they can get away with committing many sins (With the thinking they are saved).

You need to pay closer attention to the question and the repentance I mentioned.

 

[Alithis]

My understanding is that once one is saved, they're saved, no matter what. It's very difficult to factor one's behavior into it without it becoming a slippery slope into a works-based salvation.

Salvation brings about the good works, but good works don't bring about (or maintain) the salvation. That's how I've always understood it, anyway.

What scripture is that based on

 

[Kenny'sID]

By what you have said for, you have given me the impression that you believe in:

"The Non-OSAS - Christians Cannot Be Separated From God by Just One Sin" type belief.

Why do you get that?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why are you responding about what Paul wrote?

You believe the Christian is under a law of righteousness concerning 1050 NT commands.
However, as soon as I put a couple before you and ask if a believer may enter heaven if they die without repenting of them, you refuse to answer

No. I will be happy to answer them if you provide the actual verse numbers.
For there is a difference between what you think God's Word says vs. what God's Word actually says.

Side Note:

As for Paul:

I am clearing up your confusion on what Paul was actually talking about in regards to the word "law." You think Paul was talking about "all Law" when this was not the case.


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[Alithis]

Yes. And Isaiah 55:11 says God's word "shall accomplish" what God pleases. To me, Jason, this means that God's word will bring someone to Jesus and then will finish the job. So, the person will not turn from God and then die in an unrepentant state. Part of my scripture for this includes >

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

This is God's word which does what He means . . . how we who have trusted in Jesus (Ephesians 1:12) are each now "one spirit with" Jesus Himself in us (Galatians 4:19). And this union is in His almighty power to keep us plus change our nature so we no longer are able to turn away and stay away from Him. And this union has us growing in His own nature of His own love incapable of sinning, making us more and more > "as He is" "in this world." (in 1 John 4:17) 1 John 4:17 says God's love "has been perfected among us" . . . not "will be" or "could be if only we", but "has been".

So, Jason, if God's word has so succeeded in us so we are "as He is in this world", how ever could we get away? We have trusted God and all He is able to do, and God's grace includes how God in us effects our nature; so if He has taken us and started changing us to be more and more like Jesus . . . we are less and less able to go elsewhere.

Well, our Apostle Paul says,

"But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived." (2 Timothy 3:13)

So, in case someone claims to be a Christian, but the person is becoming worse and worse so he or she sins at the end . . . the person was not growing in Jesus and maturing like God does with us. So, I would not wishfully preach the person into Heaven.

Yes, there can be newer children of God who can have problems, but our Heavenly Father succeeds in correcting us who are His children > I offer Hebrews 12:4-11. So, in case we fail, don't give up, but seek how God is able to correct us, not trying on our own. Our failure is because we are not submitting to how God succeeds. And so, we bleed and suffer.

But Jesus did not give up on any of His disciples.

By the way, we can read about what Peter did, even after he was filled with the Holy Spirit and had ministered the Holy Spirit to Gentiles at the house of Cornelius. Still, Peter was able to play the hypocrite. But Paul helped them get restored.

God made sure His word would succeed to do what He really means by His word. Peter became able, I can see, to later write those two epistles which I would say are the work of a man who has learned from his errors and now has become even experiencing much of what he is writing in these two epistles.

So, Jason, I understand that God's word means that if you truly give yourself to Jesus, you leave behind your so-called free will which could take you away from God. You have denied your self which has that sort of a will, and now we seek and receive real correction so we have our new nature in Jesus making us so we can not get away. And so we are guaranteed to spend eternity with Christ, plus guaranteed how God will perfect us in His love, "in this world".

So, procrastinating until after death is not Biblical.

And so, I do not believe there is any such thing as someone becoming a child of God and then sinning in a way which loses the person's salvation. Plus, we grow to share more and more with one another as God's family, helping one another to be corrected into the image of Jesus in us, and learning with each other how to relate in His love >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

But since we are not perfect, we are wise to trust and depend on God to make sure we do not sin fully away from Him. We trust Him to change our nature so we can not. He is easily able to do this, and the Bible says He does this with us who are His children.

Too much material to effectively reply to All of it.
But if you sit back and summarize what you've laid out.
It means an extremely small percent of those who THINK they are saved are actually yet saved.
Because so very few match up to what you'd laid out.
And in that respect I would be inclined to mostly agree with you

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why do you get that?

As I said, it was an impression I was getting by what you said.
See Post #36.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus said narrow is the way that leads to life and FEW be there that finds it.
Most of Christianity believes in a sin and still be saved gospel of some of kind these days.
It is the wide gate belief or path.


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[Kenny'sID]

Jesus said narrow is the way that leads to life and FEW be there that finds it.
Most of Christianity believes in a sin and still be saved gospel of some of kind these days.
It is the wide gate belief or path.

Of course we can sin and still be saved, we have forgiveness and repentance..

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You need to pay closer attention to the question and the repentance I mentioned.

Test Question:

Do you believe it is possible for a believer to die in one or two unrepentant sins (like lying or lusting after a woman) and yet they can still be saved (as long as they generally lived a holy life)?

Please answer "yes", or "no."


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[stuart lawrence]

No. I will be happy to answer them if you provide the actual verse numbers.
For there is a difference between what you think God's Word says vs. what God's Word actually says.


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Love your enemies
Matt5:44

When you give a luncheon/ dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers, or relatives, or your rich neighbours, if you do, they might invite you back, and so you will be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, crippled, the lame, the blind and you will be blessed
Luke 14:12&13

Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back
Luke6:30
But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back.
Luke6:35

For I would not have known lust/ impure thoughts except the law had said: thou shalt not covet
Rom7:7

Now will you water down, or try and twist some of these 1050 commands?

If you die, without repenting of not obeying any of them, will you be sent to hell?

I

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Of course we can sin and still be saved, we have forgiveness and repentance..

Uhhhh... no!
That is admission to doing a future evil (as a guarantee) with the thinking one is going to be rewarded by God's Kingdom.
It doesn't work like that.
That would be like a man who says to his wife that their love is so good that he could cheat on her and it would not hurt their relationship in any way.
That would be like an alcoholic who joins a drug program and yet he has no real intention of giving up the bottle.
If one happens to fall into sin, they can repent and get their heart right with the Lord, but that is not a sin and still be saved gospel. That is throwing yourself down upon the Lord's mercy and forgiveness so that you can then be a new creature in Christ.
Confessing sin is not a mere paying of lip service.
Confessing sin goes along with 1 John 1:7 that says, "if we walk in the light as he is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin." There has to be a point where believers mature in the faith and walk uprightly with their Lord.


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[Kenny'sID]

Test Question:

Do you believe it is possible for a believer to die in one or two unrepentant sins (like lying or lusting after a woman) and yet they can still be saved (as long as they generally lived a holy life)?

Please answer "yes", or "no."

I already said as much...YES

 

[Kenny'sID]

Uhhhh... no!
That is admission to doing a future evil (as a guarantee) with the thinking one is going to be rewarded by God's Kingdom.
It doesn't work like that.

Admission? Future evil is a guarantee regardless of what you or I think?

Again, what are you talking about?

 

[Rajni]

This is the typical Eternal Security proponent response. Let's point out a problem with me as a person instead of addressing the issue with Scripture.

Wow. Defensive already. Could you show where I mentioned anything about problems with you as a person?

The problem with Eternal Security is that on the one hand it sounds like it is teaching holiness and yet on the other hand, that is not what it is teaching at all. Eternal Security teaches a double message that conflicts with itself.

Did Jesus save, or did he not?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Did Jesus save, or did he not?

He surely did!

Sin is the transgression of the law
1john3:4

Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for everyone who believeth
Rom10:4

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin
Rom3:20