The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[Dan61861]

Excellent scripture.

Paul himself, taught us that even he could become lost, if he didn't keep his flesh under the dominion of the Spirit.

However, the scripture I was asking for, was one in reference to this statement you made:




JLB

Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Now put all three together.

 

[JLB777]

Does gal5:18 include reference to the moral law/ TC?

Last time I will say it:

Galatians 5:18, specifically the word "law", is a reference to the law of Moses.

I said I'm not under the law of Moses, because I am in Christ, and the law of Moses was abolished in His flesh, having been nailed to the cross.

Within the law of Moses, were the 10 commandments, as well as the ceremonial law of sacrifices, special washing requirements, circumcision, feast days, Sabbath Laws, and so forth.


JLB

 

[JLB777]

Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Now put all three together.

Just scripture brother.

Please post the scripture you are referring, about righteousness.


Here's mine:

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

• He who practices righteousness, is righteous.

JLB

 

[Dan61861]

Excellent scripture.

Paul himself, taught us that even he could become lost, if he didn't keep his flesh under the dominion of the Spirit.

However, the scripture I was asking for, was one in reference to this statement you made:




JLB

BTW...Paul was not teaching He could become lost, he was teaching he does this in order not to become lost.

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Paul is teaching us to walk as if we had not already attained.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Last time I will say it:

Galatians 5:18, specifically the word "law", is a reference to the law of Moses.

I said I'm not under the law of Moses, because I am in Christ, and the law of Moses was abolished in His flesh, having been nailed to the cross.

Within the law of Moses, were the 10 commandments, as well as the ceremonial law of sacrifices, special washing requirements, circumcision, feast days, Sabbath Laws, and so forth.


JLB

Really? The TC got abolished?

I don't think so!

If a Christian committed adultery, would they specifically be convicted they sinned because they committed adultery?

Through the law we become conscious of sin rom3:20

If a person stole something, would they specifically be conscious they sinned because they stole?

Through the law we become conscious of sin rom3:20
Etc, Etc

Do not think I have come to abolish the law or the prophets, I did not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Matt5:17

 

[stuart lawrence]

You show you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink, but the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets if stone( TC) but on tablets of human hearts
2cor3:3

Where do people get the idea from God abolished the fact he wants you to love him with all your heart, body, soul and mind?
Why do some believe God abolished the fact he does not want you to murder, covet, lie, steal etc?
Tis strange

 

[Dan61861]

Just scripture brother.

Please post the scripture you are referring, about righteousness.


Here's mine:

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

• He who practices righteousness, is righteous.

JLB

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

This with 1 john 3:7. You can now see, the righteousness we walk in is Christ.

 

[JLB777]

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

This with 1 john 3:7. You can now see, the righteousness we walk in is Christ.

The Lord gives us a new divine nature, empowered by the Holy Spirit, so that we can now practice righteousness, something we could never do without His Spirit; The Spirit of Grace.

We are to become, the righteousness of God in Christ.

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21


John says it this way:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12


Those who practice righteousness are righteous.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7


If you believe that those who practice the works of the flesh are righteous, then please share the scripture for this belief.

If you believe those who practice unrighteousness, are righteous, then please provide the scripture for this belief.




JLB

 

[Dan61861]

Let me put it this way, if you rely on your righteousness than you must also rely on your unrighteousness.

If I say to God, look at me I did good. I than place myself under the Law.
James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

God now looks upon the wickedness I do as well.

 

[stuart lawrence]

The Lord gives us a new divine nature, empowered by the Holy Spirit, so that we can now practice righteousness, something we could never do without His Spirit; The Spirit of Grace.

We are to become, the righteousness of God in Christ.

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21


John says it this way:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12


Those who practice righteousness are righteous.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7


If you believe that those who practice the works of the flesh are righteous, then please share the scripture for this belief.

If you believe those who practice unrighteousness, are righteous, then please provide the scripture for this belief.




JLB

You are NOT declared righteous by striving not to commit sin.

How many scriptures do you want concerning that?

 

[Dan61861]

You are NOT declared righteous by striving not to commit sin.

How many scriptures do you want concerning that?

Amen...Amen...Amen

 

[1stcenturylady]

Right, Paul did not have a righteousness of His own...He has the righteousness of Christ.

In Christ
Daniel

Right, I have no idea why Stuart only chose the first part of the verse.

 

[1stcenturylady]

You are NOT declared righteous by striving not to commit sin.

How many scriptures do you want concerning that?

With the power of the Spirit there is no striving. He has given us the power not to sin willfully. If you do sin willfully, then you are not walking in the Spirit and your doctrine is completely wacked. God will not be mocked.

 

[Dan61861]

The Lord gives us a new divine nature, empowered by the Holy Spirit, so that we can now practice righteousness, something we could never do without His Spirit; The Spirit of Grace.

We are to become, the righteousness of God in Christ.

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21


John says it this way:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12


Those who practice righteousness are righteous.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7


If you believe that those who practice the works of the flesh are righteous, then please share the scripture for this belief.

If you believe those who practice unrighteousness, are righteous, then please provide the scripture for this belief.




JLB

Do you not understand, your deeds, your thoughts, your words are the works of the flesh. Whether they be good works or wicked works. If you stand on any of your works, you stand on all of your works...the good and the wicked.

This is why our Lord tells us, we have to give up ourselves to follow Him. He has died for our sins...period. Our strength, our righteousness is in the gospel. It is why Paul said...I preach Christ and Him crucified.

Christ plus nothing equals salvation.

I stand in Christ and Him crucified...nothing else.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin
Rom3:20

Jason will tell you the above only concerns non applicable old( covenant) law.
If he is right, Paul made an incorrect statement. For that law could be faultlessly obeyed, therefore you could be righteous under it

First, Romans 3:1, asks the question, what profit is there in circumcision? Is circumcision a part of the Old Law or the New Law? Surely this is a part of the Old Law. So the word "law" is in context to the Old Law and not all law.

Second, even if you wanted Romans 3:20 to be talking about all law, it is not an observance of law alone that saves us but we are initially and ultimately saved by Jesus Christ. For a person initially accepts Jesus as their Savior, repents of their sins, and believes in His death and resurrection on their behalf. This is called Justification and it continues through a believer's life. However, after accepting Jesus, the Lord will then move to do good work through their heart and lives. This is where Sanctification comes in (i.e. holy living).


....

 

[stuart lawrence]

Amen...Amen...Amen

I won't write this to them, because they refuse to listen.
Sin is the transgression of the law 1john3:4
Therefore if you observe the law you do not commit sin. If you fail to observe the law you do commit sin.
Paul states( and he goes on stating it)

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin
Rom 3:20

So the Christian is not declared righteous by striving not to commit sin.
People then say you preach a licence to sin. So why did Paul relentlessly state it?
Paul is writing to people who have made Christ Lord and Saviour of their life. They have been born again of the Holy Spirit. The law is in their hearts and in their hearts they want nothing more than to obey it.
Under such circumstances, such people have no need of a righteousness of striving not to commit sin. They don't want the sin, they want to follow after Christ. Such people could never use such grace as a licence to sin. The idea THESE people who want nothing more than to serve Christ would then seek a licence to sin, is, frankly potty.
So why does Paul insist they who love God and so much want to obey him must die to a law if righteousness/ no righteousness of striving to defeat sin?
Because, the power of sin is the law( of righteousness) 1cor15:56

If the Christian who in their heart wants nothing more than to obey Christ, every time they are imperfect believe they are threatened with hell unless they quickly repent, they live under the power of sin, they cannot grow as God wants them to grow. Neither can they love God as He wants them to love him.
The Christian who knows their sin cannot condemn them and loves God with all their heart can't thank God enough for removing their feelings of condemnation. For they know they are not perfect in the flesh. Such gratitude brings them to love God more than they ever thought possible( greatest commandment obeyed) and I repeat, such people cannot/ would not view such grace as a licence to sin.
In fact, they will see sin far more dramatically and quickly overcome in their lives for they are living in the pure truth of the gospel message. And the power is in the truth being followed. And the power of sin has been removed from their lives.
However, those who don't want to surrender their lives to Christ cannot understand it and accept grace. Grace is not for them. The proud of heart will also resist such grace.

 

[Dan61861]

Now, if you wish to talk about how a Christian should behave after he is sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of the Lord I would be happy too.

They are two completely different events. God forbid any of us sin. If we do, we have an advocate in heaven in Christ our Lord.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[stuart lawrence]

First, Romans 3:1, asks the question, what profit is there in circumcision? Is circumcision a part of the Old Law or the New Law? Surely this is a part of the Old Law. So the word "law" is in context to the Old Law and not all law.

Second, even if you wanted Romans 3:20 to be talking about all law, it is not an observance of law alone that saves us but we are initially and ultimately saved by Jesus Christ. For a person initially accepts Jesus as their Savior, repents of their sins, and believes in His death and resurrection on their behalf. This is called Justification and it continues through a believer's life. However, after accepting Jesus, the Lord will then move to do good work through their heart and lives. This is where Sanctification comes in (i.e. holy living).


....

I'm just going to repeat. If in rom3:20 Paul us, as you believe speaking of old law, not incorporated into NC law, he made a false statement. And I have explained why

 

[Dan61861]

With the power of the Spirit there is no striving. He has given us the power not to sin willfully. If you do sin willfully, then you are not walking in the Spirit and your doctrine is completely wacked. God will not be mocked.

Has God failed? I have yet to meet one man that does not sin. When we walk in the Spirit, we trust that God's Word is true. Through Christ's passion, we are cleansed.

It is by the grace of God through faith in Christ, not our works lest any man should boast

In Christ
Daniel

 

[Dan61861]

I won't write this to them, because they refuse to listen.
Sin is the transgression of the law 1john3:4
Therefore if you observe the law you do not commit sin. If you fail to observe the law you do commit sin.
Paul states( and he goes on stating it)

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin
Rom 3:20

So the Christian is not declared righteous by striving not to commit sin.
People then say you preach a licence to sin. So why did Paul relentlessly state it?
Paul is writing to people who have made Christ Lord and Saviour of their life. They have been born again of the Holy Spirit. The law is in their hearts and in their hearts they want nothing more than to obey it.
Under such circumstances, such people have no need of a righteousness of striving not to commit sin. They don't want the sin, they want to follow after Christ. Such people could never use such grace as a licence to sin. The idea THESE people who want nothing more than to serve Christ would then seek a licence to sin, is, frankly potty.
So why does Paul insist they who love God and so much want to obey him must die to a law if righteousness/ no righteousness of striving to defeat sin?
Because, the power of sin is the law( of righteousness) 1cor15:56

If the Christian who in their heart wants nothing more than to obey Christ, every time they are imperfect believe they are threatened with hell unless they quickly repent, they live under the power of sin, they cannot grow as God wants them to grow. Neither can they love God as He wants them to love him.
The Christian who knows their sin cannot condemn them and loves God with all their heart can't thank God enough for removing their feelings of condemnation. For they know they are not perfect in the flesh. Such gratitude brings them to love God more than they ever thought possible( greatest commandment obeyed) and I repeat, such people cannot/ would not view such grace as a licence to sin.
In fact, they will see sin far more dramatically and quickly overcome in their lives for they are living in the pure truth of the gospel message. And the power is in the truth being followed. And the power of sin has been removed from their lives.
However, those who don't want to surrender their lives to Christ cannot understand it and accept grace. Grace is not for them. The proud of heart will also resist such grace.

I'm going to save this brother

In Christ
Daniel