The Doctrine of Eternal Security-Is It Biblical?

[cygnusx1]

I challenged someone ages ago to produce just one ............... that is right , just ONE scripture that says loss of SALVATION , or , he lost his SALVATION , OR SALVATION WAS TAKEN FROM HIM , or while at one point they /he was saved they/he lost it......................


I am still waiting !!!!

without reservation I can catagorically say that scripture NEVER , not even once has anything about salvation being lost .............

you will find after careful scrutiny that those who believe in a loss of salvation will always without fail make "salvation" "saved" fit into the text .......... they will even insert it into the text and hope you swollow it as the truth ......... and with many windy words they will hope to convince you that the Apostles must have meant saved but it just needed them to clarify the point by adding to God's word!!!

The offer still stands , show all here any scripture that uses the word "saved" or "salvation" and the loss of it ........... if you cannot find one scripture that doesn't use those exact words then don't bother quoting it , and don't even think about adding saved salvation into the text!

If I make a claim that God has an "elect" "election" I should at least be able to show clearly without adding those words that there is such a thing ......... same goes for PREDESTINATION FOLKS!

Greetings Cygnus

 

[WAB]

SALVATION, GIFT​

OR LOAN​

?​

Romans 6:23.… “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Romans 11:29..... “For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.”

For those who believe that one may be born-again and become a new creation in Christ Jesus (see 2 Cor.5:17) and then at some later time lose their salvation…. the word “eternal” must mean temporary, and the word “gift” must really mean loan.

(The above Scriptures are from the New King James edition of the Bible, emphasis added)
W.A.B.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

I challenged someone ages ago to produce just one ............... that is right , just ONE scripture that says loss of SALVATION , or , he lost his SALVATION , OR SALVATION WAS TAKEN FROM HIM , or while at one point they /he was saved they/he lost it......................


I am still waiting !!!!

without reservation I can catagorically say that scripture NEVER , not even once has anything about salvation being lost .............


Greetings Cygnus

Romans 10:26-31. Hope that suffices. If not, show me scripture that salvation is never lost. Shalom

 

[Normann]

Ezekiel 18:24
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.


IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

 

[AbideInChrist]

LOOK TO CHRIST AS THE TRUTH
Has one of you ever thought of asking the Lord to settle the matter? In matters of controversy, some of which have raged for two thousand years, the Church has shown its unbelief by not asking or expecting a full answer from God--such as to Moses on Mount Sinai.

You can say God has said such and such in His word but it is interpretation of the Bible which believers have and they continue to disagree. In early Christian centuries some saints settled controversies by performing miracles.

For most of the past two thousand years most Christians have believed in losing salvation. In the last three to five hundred years OSAS has gradually gained the ascendancy. Is that good or bad? It may revert again. Then again Christains have a habit of re-writing history to suit their religious culture.

I did ask the Lord about OSAS as a young believer and He did answer me directly by quoting a Bible verse and supplying his interpretation by the Spirit. You can do the same by faith. That is God can answer you all in a way that is strong, clear and pure and increases your depth of understanding in the Word.

If you have faith for this some of you are in for a real shock but at least you'll know rather that believe you know or assume you understand. OF COURSE YOU MUST FIRST SURRENBDER YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING TO THE TEACHER.This is meant to be helpful and to encourage faith in Jesus as the Teacher and Settler of Controversies among the saints. I look forward to hearing your testimonies.

Andrew

 

[cygnusx1]

Romans 10:26-31. Hope that suffices. If not, show me scripture that salvation is never lost. Shalom

do you mean Hebrews 10 ?

 

[Deep_MindQuest]

[url]http://www.biblebb.com/files/SECURITY.TXT[/url] ETERNAL SECURITY

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/45-40.HTM The Security of Salvation--Part 1

I have always defended the "once saved, always saved" view, but my friend is insistent that it is wrong. I disagree with their teaching on this one.

Answer



The real question is, "When is your eternal life eternal?" When I was saved I received eternal life, which never ends. To say that God will give a salvation that is "eternal" and then take it away when we commit some "big" sin makes the "eternal" a farce. http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-O-9.htm So, just to help you understand why you don’t loose your salvation? There are a lot of reasons by the way.

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/61-8.HTM Tests of Assurance from 1 John"

 

[AnthonyE1778]

[url="http://www.biblebb.com/files/SECURITY.TXT"]http://www.biblebb.com/files/SECURITY.TXT[/url] ETERNAL SECURITY

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/45-40.HTMThe Security of Salvation--Part 1

I have always defended the "once saved, always saved" view, but my friend is insistent that it is wrong. I disagree with their teaching on this one.

Answer



The real question is, "When is your eternal life eternal?" When I was saved I received eternal life, which never ends. To say that God will give a salvation that is "eternal" and then take it away when we commit some "big" sin makes the "eternal" a farce. http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-O-9.htm So, just to help you understand why you don’t loose your salvation? There are a lot of reasons by the way.

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/61-8.HTM Tests of Assurance from 1 John"

John MacArthur is the one who started the blasphemous concept of "Lordship Salvation". He is one awesome and considerably solid teacher, except when it comes to his Lordship Salvation.

 

[Normann]

Luke 15:11-24
And he said, A certain man had two sons: [12] And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living. [13] And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living. [14] And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want. [15] And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. [16] And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him. [17] And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! [18] I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, [19] And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. [20] And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. [21] And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. [22] But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: [23] And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: [24] For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.


The best way to show truth is scripture.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

 

[cygnusx1]

Ezekiel 18:24
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.


IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

Old Covenant !!!

The New Covenant is exacted on better (superior) principles.

 

[Normann]

Luke 15:24
For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Ezekiel 18:24
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

 

[Normann]

Old Covenant !!!

The New Covenant is exacted on better (superior) principles.

This is also Old Covneant, shall we ignore it?

Ezekiel 18:22
All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

 

[Normann]

Old Covenant !!!

The New Covenant is exacted on better (superior) principles.

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


2 Tim. 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

 

[hlaltimus]

Since those who, in Romans 8:30, have been justified by faith they also must be glorified by the same argument of Paul given there. We could make this summary statement: "Those who truly possess a justifying faith are eternally secure, but one's claim to that justifying faith may not be eternally secure." In other words, no one who possesses justifying faith will be disappointed after death's doors are passed through, but some who assumed that their faith was a justifying faith will find it otherwise to their eternal disappointment on the other side of the veil. Here is the real value in the doctrine of sanctification as it is the only sure-fire indication of the verity of that thing which we call "saving faith" while still in this world and awaiting the next one.

 

[Deep_MindQuest]

http://www.biblebelievers.com/montgomery/montgomery002.html Seven Reasons From The Bible Why A Born-Again Christian Cannot Lose His Salvation
[font=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]People can do great things for God, but never be saved. Some people can have the appearance of it, but not ever have truly received it. What we may see as genuine passion for The Lord could just be empty works. That's why I have never really been a fan of these huge crusades where thousands upon thousands of people come up to accept Christ, but there are only a handful of people there to counsel them. I think a lot of people get caught up in the feeling and the moment, but never really comprehend the seriousness or the cost of making that decision and accepting salvation through Christ.

The other part of that is that we never are able to see the end. What I mean by that is that we only see the person allegedly accepting Christ, being on fire, and then rejecting God. We don't see if he or she will one day turn back to God. Look at the story of the prodigal son. He was in pretty deep and still came back in the end. I had that happen with a friend of mine. She had a friend who was on fire for God and then all of a sudden turned away and even dabbled in different satanic cults. She was so sure that this one person had lost their salvation and she just completely shut off the thought that salvation can't be lost. After 3 years or so of running, this guy acknowledged his sin and how he was running from God and repented, got back into the church, and now counsels people who have fallen from their faith. So, we really never know in the end who is just running and who was really never in the race. Appearances can be deceiving. What we see as 'lost salvation' could just be a wandering soul.
[/font]
I keep thinking of Peter for some reason....I mean, he promised he wouldn't but then he denied Jesus 3 times! but he returned to Him

 

[Deep_MindQuest]

'NO'. I don't believe that a person who has truly accepted Christ in their heart can remove that salvation from their heart.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (italic/underline by me)
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

True salvation does not fade away and is incorruptible and undefiled and kept in heaven by the power of God. If salvation could be lost, then what does that say about God's power?

As far as any type of comment about/like living a life of sin just because you prayed a prayer when you were 5 years old, I think [font=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Romans 6[/font][font=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif] sums that up pretty well. Someone who is praying a prayer just to get away with more sin has pretty much missed the point of that prayer. If God is sovereign and omniscient (all knowing), He knows their heart and intentions. Can a person who has truly accepted Christ fall away and fall into sin? Of course they can. That doesn't mean they have lost their salvation though.

The other thing that I think people don't think about when looking at this question is the fact that salvation is a gift from God and not of works (Ephesians 2:8). Well, if receiving salvation has nothing to do with your works, then how can you do something to lose it? That would make salvation a conditional gift. It would be like someone giving you a free car to get you where you need to go, but then taking it away because they don't like how you're taking care of it. If it's a true gift, then it's your gift to take care of or abuse. Whether you take care of it, keep it clean, change the oil so that it always works right, is up to you. Some people will enter heaven with a beat up old car, but they will make it. Others will enter heaven with a shiny car that purrs like a kitten. Sorry, that was sort of a lame analogy, but I hope you get the point.

Salvation is a gift and only God truly knows who has accepted that gift or not. We can only see the outside, but that is never 100% accurate. God seeing a person's heart is 100% accurate. It's sort of like that Peace Of Mind song "Coming Soon". Someone can be the biggest part of a church, but never have received true salvation. We can see a person praying everyday, singing worship all the time, but then we don't see them in heaven. It could happen.


http://www.jesusforums.net/osas/index.htm O.S.A.S
[/font]

 

[AnthonyE1778]

Since those who, in Romans 8:30, have been justified by faith they also must be glorified by the same argument of Paul given there. We could make this summary statement: "Those who truly possess a justifying faith are eternally secure, but one's claim to that justifying faith may not be eternally secure." In other words, no one who possesses justifying faith will be disappointed after death's doors are passed through, but some who assumed that their faith was a justifying faith will find it otherwise to their eternal disappointment on the other side of the veil. Here is the real value in the doctrine of sanctification as it is the only sure-fire indication of the verity of that thing which we call "saving faith" while still in this world and awaiting the next one.

so basically if you honestly have been saved there is absolutely nothing you can do to get out of God's eternal family.

 

[i'm the bad guy]

I don't believe that you can lose your salvation if you truly accepted it in the first place. When accepting salvation God is then in the buisness of changing you. During that process you will fall from time to time, however when you do fall you repent and ask for forgiveness. Thus what I believe is called the process of sanctification. Each day you bleed out the flaws in place of God thus becoming more like Him.

 

[Normann]

Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Hebrews 6:6
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Here is only two. Shall we cut away dozens of others?

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

 

[lmnop9876]

Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

note the emphasized words. these have no root. these were never truly part of Christ's Kingdom

Hebrews 6:6
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

it's not a good thing to take verses out of context:

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

the verse is talking about those who have 'tasted' of these things, they received the general work of the Holy Spirit, but have fallen away. these cannot be restored to repentance.