The Distinction Between Zionism and Judaism

[Treppers]

In their own words. I found this on youtube.com.

I think it is easy listening; certainly it at least points out that criticism of Zionism does not equate to anit-Semitism.

- Part 1 -
- Part 2 -
- Part 3 -
- Part 4 -
- Part 5 -
- Part 6 -

 

[Treppers]

I thought these were quite interesting:

- Jewish Voice For Peace -
- Jewish march against Zionism -


The Jew they're interviewing in the last video mentions that Zionists in Israel oppress Orthodox Jews, here's two videos of them doing just that:

- Video 1 -
- Video 2 -


Here's another guy going nuts about Jews protesting against Zionism. Contains very offensive language unfortunately.

- Jews For Palestine vs a Zionist -

 

[Easystreet]

Show me any Jewish or Zionist group that is: Sending their kid out to commit suicide, going through villages murdering everyone is sight, rapping the women, cutting of heads, brutally hacking up bodies, and beating women to within an inch of their lives.

What kind of faith teaches that sexual lust is the gift of Heaven. Only Islam. What a farce and lie. What a degradation of woman who too are made in the image of God. Only a God hate filled un-holy book and religion could do this.

The God of Creation is Holy. Their God is not the God who created he is Satan sold to them as Allah.

Let me balance out a few things. First Jewish believers who do not accept Christ are not saved. God sees them as rejecting Him. Their fate at death is the same as all peoples who die without Christ. God makes not distinction here.



Now, on the side of compassion. Lost Jews, Arabs, and all other peoples need Christ. The individual chains of hate between people groups is never going to stop. However, recognizing that some are simple worse than others would be a good start. There is not parallel in history to the carnage intentionally caused by Islam. They have been a constant march from the beginning 1600s. Others have come and gone but Islam growing and more and more peoples are subjugated to their slavery, hate, loose of freedom, and more.

 

[Treppers]

Gordon, how can my views be anti-Semitic if they are the very views espoused by many ordinary Jews? They draw the exact, careful distinction I do between Jews and Zionists.

Let me say, hopefully for the last time, how sickening and nauseating your hatred toward Muslims is. Sickening.

Suppose I switched all the words in the opening to your post about and posted, "Wherever you go in the world where Jewish influence is substantial you have major problems. How is it that Muslims are the blame for the middle east issue. It is simple. Judaism is everyone’s enemy. They are out to [conquer] the world. This is their stated goal, and objective. Specifically, Muslims are at the top of the list for Jews then Christians and then others."

What would you accuse me of if I posted such a sickening diatribe? Anti-Semitism? I'd sure hope so.

So then DON'T DO THE SAME TO MUSLIMS. It is sickening.

 

[Easystreet]

You are wrong it is not a Jewish vs. Islamic thing for me. All peoples against Christ are the enemas of Christ, including Jews.

This anti-Jewish hate to blame them for the middle east problems is a farce. Islam is not the move world wide. The issue here is not the Jewish "so called fight between so called Jews and Zionist" that is a false fight to cause diversion. It is a fight, that is granted, but the big picture is Islam's march world wide. It is not just against Jews, but Christians, Animist, and all their religions. The two key players that they are against are Jews and Christians.

Now, do me a favor. You are a passionate person for your cause. Site me simple statements, actions, and movements that are doing the following in the Jewish community.

What Jewish community of government/s are

(1) marching through countries, villages, killing everyone in sight and demanding them to convert to Islam.

(2) beheading people at will

(3) rapping all the women then beating them and hacking up their bodies

(4) murdering children

(5) what Jewish or other group or religion is sending their kids to commit suicide?

Just answer these questions.

Their literature the Koran is clear on the Jewish and Christians hate thing. Their schools teach it - it is not a secret. What else is needed to convince you or anyone that this is what is taking place.

But out of all due respect. Can you answer the questions I have ask. Don't get hung up on just the Jewish issue, look beyond that to the world problem, but yes specifically answer the Jewish issue to in light of the question as well.

 

[Treppers]

OK, Gordon, enough's enough. This is my last post to you. God bless, and good luck.

 

[applepowerpc]

Agreed. Gordon can't be reached. We can only do the same thing we do with sharing the Gospel: spread the Word, those who embrace it do, those who don't, don't.


Also, I'd point out that there are huge distinctions within Judaism as well. The single biggest one to make is that today's Judaism is nothing like that of the Old Testament. I would delineate today's Judaism into 4 sections:

1) Rabbinical Judaism. This is the mainstream kind flowing around today. It's based on Talmud, which is basically all the Pharisees' legalistic books, only made much worse after Jesus was crucified.

2) Casual Judaism. Also a large segment, these are "Jews" who don't take the religion part very seriously. They tend to be atheist, but they think the culture's cool & fashionable, and you can get special treatment for being Jewish. Similar to a lot of casual "Christians" today.

3) Torahic Judaism. This is closest to OT Judaism. They tend to fall in the Orthodox segment and they take Torah (Genesis-Deut) very seriously. Many of the rabbis in Jews Against Zionism fall into this category. Unfortunately this group is way too small, since most Jews fall into Rabbinical Judaism, where the Talmud is really king and Torah is just kind of there.

4) Kabbalistic Judaism. This is the worst kind. This is basically mixing New Age, astrology, numerology, demonology together and you've got this Jewish-pagan mix. Pretty hard core. This is where the so-called "Bible codes" come from.


One big thing to know about Rabbinical Judaism: according to rabbis, Jewishness is passed down on the MOTHER'S side. This tradition (and it is just that: tradition. Nothing more) has been passed on since mid-Roman times. Reformed Jews (who I'm basically lumping into "Rabbinical") believe Jewishness is passed down by either mother or father. I'll leave it for you to decide whether either of those beliefs is Biblical, and also what that says about 90% of those out there who say they are Jewish.

 

[gwynedd1]

You are wrong it is not a Jewish vs. Islamic thing for me. All peoples against Christ are the enemas of Christ, including Jews.

This anti-Jewish hate to blame them for the middle east problems is a farce. Islam is not the move world wide. The issue here is not the Jewish "so called fight between so called Jews and Zionist" that is a false fight to cause diversion. It is a fight, that is granted, but the big picture is Islam's march world wide. It is not just against Jews, but Christians, Animist, and all their religions. The two key players that they are against are Jews and Christians.

Now, do me a favor. You are a passionate person for your cause. Site me simple statements, actions, and movements that are doing the following in the Jewish community.

What Jewish community of government/s are

(1) marching through countries, villages, killing everyone in sight and demanding them to convert to Islam.

(2) beheading people at will

(3) rapping all the women then beating them and hacking up their bodies

(4) murdering children

(5) what Jewish or other group or religion is sending their kids to commit suicide?

Just answer these questions.

Their literature the Koran is clear on the Jewish and Christians hate thing. Their schools teach it - it is not a secret. What else is needed to convince you or anyone that this is what is taking place.

But out of all due respect. Can you answer the questions I have ask. Don't get hung up on just the Jewish issue, look beyond that to the world problem, but yes specifically answer the Jewish issue to in light of the question as well.

Most of this is funded by the World Bank
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/walker1.html

Jesus called on us to be wise, not simple minded.

Easy money from loans is spent by the ruling power elite. The loans are guaranteed through taxing power. The nation is put into perpetual debt and usually ends up destroying the middle class. The loans are typically not paid off and bailouts come from US taxes. Money flows from the US middle class to destroy 3rd World middle class.
World Bank money actually went straight to Idi Amin in Uganda to build the gulags that killed 300,000 people.
Did you know that?

 

[billwald]

Zionism is to Judaism as Reconstructionism is to Christianity.

 

[applepowerpc]

A closer analogy I would use is, Zionism is to Judaism as the Mafia is to Catholicism.

 

[gwynedd1]

A closer analogy I would use is, Zionism is to Judaism as the Mafia is to Catholicism.

Oh yes exactly. Well said.

 

[ContraMundum]

The problem people have is that they let the basics stand in between them and an objective reality. Belows I've posted some points brought to my attention to help remind us of the basics in order to curb our zeal for the sensational.

This isn't about Zionism vs. Judaism- it's about political realities and no matter how you boil it down Israel exists whether you like it or not. I know many points below will be disputed by Treppers but that's really not going to change the world.

Jerusalem is important to the Jewish people- and here's some reasons why.


ISRAEL AND JERUSALEM FACTS

A history lesson worth repeating:

1. ISRAEL BECAME A STATE IN 1312 B.C., TWO MILLENNIA BEFORE ISLAM;

2. ARAB REFUGEES FROM ISRAEL BEGAN CALLING THEMSELVES "PALESTINIANS" IN 1967, TWO DECADES AFTER (MODERN) ISRAELI STATEHOOD;

3. AFTER CONQUERING THE LAND IN 1272 B.C., JEWS RULED IT FOR A THOUSAND YEARS AND MAINTAINED A CONTINUOUS PRESENCE THERE FOR 3,300 YEARS;

4. FOR OVER 3,300 YEARS, JERUSALEM WAS THE JEWISH CAPITAL. IT WAS NEVER THE CAPITAL OF ANY ARAB OR MUSLIM ENTITY. EVEN UNDER JORDANIAN RULE, (EAST) JERUSALEM WAS NOT MADE THE CAPITAL, AND NO ARAB LEADER CAME TO VISIT IT;

5. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 700 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT ONCE IS IT MENTIONED IN THE QUR'AN;

6. KING DAVID FOUNDED JERUSALEM; MOHAMMED NEVER SET FOOT IN IT;

7. JEWS PRAY FACING JERUSALEM; MUSLIMS FACE MECCA. IF THEY ARE BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES, MUSLIMS PRAY FACING MECCA, WITH THEIR BACKS TO JERUSALEM;

8. IN 1948, ARAB LEADERS URGED THEIR PEOPLE TO LEAVE, PROMISING TO CLEANSE THE LAND OF JEWISH PRESENCE. 68% OF THEM FLED WITHOUT EVER SETTING EYES ON AN ISRAELI SOLDIER;

9. VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE JEWISH POPULATION OF MUSLIM COUNTRIES HAD TO FLEE AS THE RESULT OF VIOLENCE AND POGROMS;

10. SOME 630,000 ARABS LEFT ISRAEL IN 1948, WHILE CLOSE TO A MILLION JEWS WERE FORCED TO LEAVE THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES;

11. IN SPITE OF THE VAST TERRITORIES AT THEIR DISPOSAL, ARAB REFUGES WERE DELIBERATELY PREVENTED FROM ASSIMILATING INTO THEIR HOST COUNTRIES. OF 100 MILLION REFUGEES FOLLOWING WORLD WAR 2, THEY ARE THE ONLY GROUP TO HAVE NEVER INTEGRATED WITH THEIR CORELIGIONISTS. MOST OF THE JEWISH REFUGEES FROM EUROPE AND ARAB LANDS WERE SETTLED IN ISRAEL, A COUNTRY NO LARGER THAN NEW JERSEY;

12. THERE ARE 22 ARAB COUNTRIES. THERE IS ONLY ONE JEWISH STATE. ARABS STARTED ALL FIVE WARS AGAINST ISRAEL, AND LOST EVERY ONE OF THEM;

13. FATAH AND HAMAS CONSTITUTIONS STILL CALL FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL. ISRAEL CEDED MOST OF THE WEST BANK AND ALL OF GAZA TO THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, AND EVEN PROVIDED IT WITH ARMS;

14. DURING THE JORDANIAN OCCUPATION, JEWISH HOLY SITES WERE VANDALIZED AND WERE OFF LIMITS TO JEWS. UNDER ISRAELI RULE, ALL MUSLIM AND CHRISTIAN HOLY SITES ARE ACCESSIBLE TO ALL FAITHS;

15. OUT OF 175 UNITED NATIONS SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS UP TO 1990, 97 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL; OUT OF 690 GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTIONS, 429 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL;

16. THE U.N. WAS SILENT WHEN THE JORDANIANS DESTROYED 58 SYNAGOGUES IN THE OLD CITY OF JERUSALEM. IT REMAINED SILENT WHILE JORDAN SYSTEMATICALLY DESECRATED THE ANCIENT JEWISH CEMETERY ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES, AND IT REMAINED SILENT WHEN JORDAN ENFORCED APARTHEID
LAWS PREVENTING JEWS FROM ACCESSING THE TEMPLE MOUNT AND WESTERN WALL