The disengenouous NRA.

[Snappy1]

I do not care. I will GLADLY go to jail, to save a woman from being raped. I give a crap what the legal us laws are. If the law says I can't shoot a guy trying to a rape a women, then the law is wrong, and evil.

And quite frankly, I'd rather spend the rest of my life being able to look myself in the mirror behind bars, knowing I did what I could, than be a free man not being able to sleep with myself at night.

We have far too many pathetic excuses for men, in this country. Too worthless wimps who would rather have their own comfort, than standing up for what is right. Makes me sick.

We're very impressed.

 

[Ringo84]

There is no better way. I've seen men sprayed with mace and pepper spray, and shake it off like nothing.

I've seen men hit with tasers, and act like it was nothing more than a flee bite.

But bullet? No. Not unless you are hopped up on a enough drugs to drive a man insane... and even then you shoot enough, they'll stop.

No better way, huh? So you have to have a gun because you're worthless and powerless without one?

That might reveal some things about you, but not necessarily things you would want me to think.
Ringo

 

[Andrew77]

Background checks get people killed? You've got to be kidding.

That must be some great koolaid you've been drinking.

Background checks do in fact work:
Research Suggests Gun Background Checks Work, But They're Not Everything

Well of course. No, you guys are nuts. There is no evidence that they work.

The problem with that research is that they mindlessly make correlation and causation to be the same.

Murders declined, and they had back ground checks.... therefore without any evidence whatsoever, they assume the background check caused the decline in murder.

Oh wait.... using something called "facts", we know that murder rates declined across the entire country, including areas with few if any background checks.

It involved something called.... policing, and imprisonment of criminals.

Nothing to do with background checks.

Again... I right now, know exactly who to contact.... in fact, several people, where I can buy any number of weapons without any checks whatsoever.

In fact I know a guy that bought a gun from someone over the internet, and they met at a road side rest-stop between where they lived. Gave some money, and the deal was done.

You think a background check is going to prevent that? No of course not.

And that's a legal US lawful citizen, buying from another legal lawful citizen.

You think a criminal who has access to criminal black markets, is going to have more of a problem avoiding background checks, than a law abiding citizen?

No, you are wrong, and all your links and their idiocy are wrong too.

 

[Andrew77]

No better way, huh? So you have to have a gun because you're worthless and powerless without one?

That might reveal some things about you, but not necessarily things you would want me to think.
Ringo

The difference between me and you, is that I know my limitations, and apparently you don't.

I pray you never have to face a criminal, like I have. Because clearly you think you can do something when you can't.

 

[variant]

Well of course. No, you guys are nuts. There is no evidence that they work.

If you say so. The link I provided showed the evidence that they work.

Your ability to effortlessly hand wave evidence is great though. Almost superhuman.

You seem to have somehow diagnosed all the problems with those studies without reading even a single one of them.

With such a superpower you can support any position you decide is correct without evidence, and have the ability to summarily dismiss any evidence to the contrary.

Another way of putting it would be that you are talking off the cuff and full of it.

I'm sorry I've wasted my time with you, I thought you wanted to actually discuss the issue at hand rather than put on this type of sad display.

 

[Ringo84]

The difference between me and you, is that I know my limitations, and apparently you don't.

I pray you never have to face a criminal, like I have. Because clearly you think you can do something when you can't.

I'm sorry...I just can't take this post seriously. It could be that you've truly faced criminals, as you say. But it comes across like someone talking big on the Internet.

If Belk and Snappy are wrong, I invite you to provide articles and statistics that back up your position. Otherwise, you just sound like someone who is rapidly losing the argument because you're reduced to shouting "Nuh uh!"
Ringo

 

[Snappy1]

Well of course. No, you guys are nuts. There is no evidence that they work.

The problem with that research is that they mindlessly make correlation and causation to be the same.

Murders declined, and they had back ground checks.... therefore without any evidence whatsoever, they assume the background check caused the decline in murder.

Oh wait.... using something called "facts", we know that murder rates declined across the entire country, including areas with few if any background checks.

It involved something called.... policing, and imprisonment of criminals.

Nothing to do with background checks.

Again... I right now, know exactly who to contact.... in fact, several people, where I can buy any number of weapons without any checks whatsoever.

In fact I know a guy that bought a gun from someone over the internet, and they met at a road side rest-stop between where they lived. Gave some money, and the deal was done.

You think a background check is going to prevent that? No of course not.

And that's a legal US lawful citizen, buying from another legal lawful citizen.

You think a criminal who has access to criminal black markets, is going to have more of a problem avoiding background checks, than a law abiding citizen?

No, you are wrong, and all your links and their idiocy are wrong too.

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Stomp! Stomp! Stomp! Lol

 

[Andrew77]

I'm sorry...I just can't take this post seriously. It could be that you've truly faced criminals, as you say. But it comes across like someone talking big on the Internet.

If Belk and Snappy are wrong, I invite you to provide articles and statistics that back up your position. Otherwise, you just sound like someone who is rapidly losing the argument because you're reduced to shouting "Nuh uh!"
Ringo

lol.
Ok. I suppose people who have never had to deal with criminals, think their experiences are universal.
I do find it ironic that I just admitted openly that I needed a way to defense myself, and to you that means I am "talking big".

I guess when you are more driven by ideology than reality, you pretty much make up whatever you need, to make yourself feel better about your position.

 

[Andrew77]

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Stomp! Stomp! Stomp! Lol

At least the level of your responses are consistent. Predictability is a virtue in some circles.

 

[lasthero]

Then that isn't even the right one. I thought the 2013 date was too early, but I couldn't find the one I read. The one I read, two guys followed a girl up to the top of the bus and raped her, while her friend watched but was too scared to call for help.

The only time passengers came to that girls aid, was after they were done raping the girl.

If this isn't the same event, then it means twice a girl was raped on a city bus in the UK. That's terrible.

I would have shot a guy, if I caught him raping a girl. That's whole reason I got a conceal and carry, is so I can defend not only myself, but innocent people I'm around.

I would've just beaten the stuffing out of the guy. Why would I need a gun?

 

[Andrew77]

I would've just beaten the stuffing out of the guy. Why would I need a gun?

He was armed with a knife in the story I read. He showed the blade to the people on the bus.

Even if he didn't.... I personally don't assume that someone who is willing to rape, is somehow not willing to break a gun law, or any weapon law.

If someone was shop lifting, then I would be less concerned about confronting them unarmed. A person just stealing an Iphone, isn't likely to risk prison time with a weapon charge.

But someone who is going to rape a woman, isn't going to have a problem breaking a gun law.

So then you are going to attack a criminal, who likely has a weapon.... with your fists? And in this specific instance of the article I post, there was two of them.

Not smart. John Wick is a cheezy movie. Real people can't attack three armed men, with a pencil, and survive.

The best chance you have as a law abiding citizen, is a gun. And the best part is, you likely will never have to use it. Most criminals, the moment they are confronted by a private citizen with a gun, will run.

 

[Andrew77]

I would've just beaten the stuffing out of the guy. Why would I need a gun?

This is what I'm talking about.

Little 90 lbs Asian woman, takes on 5 armed men. She has a gun. They all run.

Who knows what they would have done to this woman, if they found her unarmed. But we all know what they did when they found her armed.... they ran.

A gun is the ultimate equalizer, and the best possible defense for anyone. You think pepper spray would have saved her? Maybe a little Kung Fu?

No, I gun was the only thing that would save her from 5 armed men.... and it did.

 

[lasthero]

He was armed with a knife in the story I read. He showed the blade to the people on the bus.

Huh, odd that you didn't mention that before. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were just making this completely unsourced story up in a shallow attempt to suit your narrative, adding details as they suit you.

So let me see if I understand you correctly.

Two men came on a bus, showed a knife to everyone, then proceeded to rape a fourteen year old girl in clear view, while everyone just sat back and watched. Nobody called the cops, nobody did anything to help. The bus driver went on, the passengers stayed in their seat.

That is what you are saying happened?

If someone was shop lifting, then I would be less concerned about confronting them unarmed.

If a person is shoplifting, you shouldn't confront them at all. You alert someone who works at the store and let them deal with it. You don't point a gun at them. You're not a cop, it's not like you can arrest them.

John Wick is a cheezy movie.

John Wick is a classic. 1 & 2. Keanu's best work since the Matrix.

 

[Andrew77]

Huh, odd that you didn't mention that before. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were just making this completely unsourced story up in a shallow attempt to suit your narrative, adding details as they suit you.

So let me see if I understand you correctly.

Two men came on a bus, showed a knife to everyone, then proceeded to rape a fourteen year old girl in clear view, while everyone just sat back and watched. Nobody called the cops, nobody did anything to help. The bus driver went on, the passengers stayed in their seat.

That is what you are saying happened?



If a person is shoplifting, you shouldn't confront them at all. You alert someone who works at the store and let them deal with it. You don't point a gun at them. You're not a cop, it's not like you can arrest them.



John Wick is a classic. 1 & 2. Keanu's best work since the Matrix.

lol
I did not think it was important to dissect the story. I don't even know how you think reliving the events out, would make any difference to my point.

The story I read said that on a UK bus, a girl went to up to the upper deck of the bus. Two men followed her up. They raped her, and threatened the other, and showed a knife. Who did they show the knife to? I don't know dude. It's what I read.

I don't know why that would even be relevant at this point.

Let's say I am remembering wrong. Ok. If that makes you feel better, ok. A criminal who is willing to rape a girl, literally on a city bus with passengers on it..... isn't going to be willing to violate weapons laws? You want to risk that? Go up there and confront two rapist who could be armed? With your fists....? Really?

Not smart.

You are cross examining me, like I was the police officer that wrote the report. I read this from a UK media publication. And no I don't remember which. Like I said it was (if I remember right) a decade ago.

Does any of this change my point? I don't think so.

Actually I can detain them, I will detain them, and citizens arrest is not uncommon.

Again... this is why we have such a problem in this country. Our country was founded by men who didn't say "don't do anything.... call government!".

People stopped thieves when they found them, and then got the sheriff to take them into custody. This wimpify wussy Americanism makes me sick.

 

[Snappy1]

lol
I did not think it was important to dissect the story. I don't even know how you think reliving the events out, would make any difference to my point.

The story I read said that on a UK bus, a girl went to up to the upper deck of the bus. Two men followed her up. They raped her, and threatened the other, and showed a knife. Who did they show the knife to? I don't know dude. It's what I read.

I don't know why that would even be relevant at this point.

Let's say I am remembering wrong. Ok. If that makes you feel better, ok. A criminal who is willing to rape a girl, literally on a city bus with passengers on it..... isn't going to be willing to violate weapons laws? You want to risk that? Go up there and confront two rapist who could be armed? With your fists....? Really?

Not smart.

You are cross examining me, like I was the police officer that wrote the report. I read this from a UK media publication. And no I don't remember which. Like I said it was (if I remember right) a decade ago.

Does any of this change my point? I don't think so.

Actually I can detain them, I will detain them, and citizens arrest is not uncommon.

Again... this is why we have such a problem in this country. Our country was founded by men who didn't say "don't do anything.... call government!".

People stopped thieves when they found them, and then got the sheriff to take them into custody. This wimpify wussy Americanism makes me sick.

Lol

 

[Gigimo]

And quite frankly, I'd rather spend the rest of my life being able to look myself in the mirror behind bars, knowing I did what I could, than be a free man not being able to sleep with myself at night.

Unless I miss my guess the other passengers on that bus have no problem sleeping at night. Unless it happens to them they don't care, that's a big issue in todays world.

 

[Zatek]

My thread is about how the NRA decried seriously mentally ill individuals getting their hands on firearms while they have done nearly everything in their power to keep measures that stop that from being implemented.

That you think I'm not allowed to point such a discrepancy out because I apparently not paid enough attention to other crimes to your liking is noted and ignored.

If you intend If your contribution to that thread to be attacking me for not being more concerned about something else then please leave my thread as your posts are off topic.

Calling it off topic doesn't make it so. Why is it so hard for you to answer why this subject is important to? It's a very simple question.

Obviously you're just trying to say the NRA is opposing more gun restrictions that could save lives, and imply that they don't care about lives but you do. If you had another reason you wouldn't be so scared to say what it was.

If you cared about lives there are easier ways to save far more lives than mental illness, such as promoting marriage before having children, which is the biggest contributing factor to someone becoming violent, with and without a gun. You haven't spoken out about that because kids being raised by married parents would drastically drop murder rates without new gun laws and you wouldn't have as many gun murder victims to exploit for your political agenda.

 

[FireDragon76]

Well of course. No, you guys are nuts. There is no evidence that they work.

The problem with that research is that they mindlessly make correlation and causation to be the same.

Murders declined, and they had back ground checks.... therefore without any evidence whatsoever, they assume the background check caused the decline in murder.

Oh wait.... using something called "facts", we know that murder rates declined across the entire country, including areas with few if any background checks.

It involved something called.... policing, and imprisonment of criminals.

Nothing to do with background checks.

Again... I right now, know exactly who to contact.... in fact, several people, where I can buy any number of weapons without any checks whatsoever.

In fact I know a guy that bought a gun from someone over the internet, and they met at a road side rest-stop between where they lived. Gave some money, and the deal was done.

You think a background check is going to prevent that? No of course not.

And that's a legal US lawful citizen, buying from another legal lawful citizen.

You think a criminal who has access to criminal black markets, is going to have more of a problem avoiding background checks, than a law abiding citizen?

You do realize that following that premise to its logical conclusion is an argument against all laws in general? How does that square with your Christian conscience? I mean, why bother writing laws against murder since that doesn't seem to stop murderers?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The NRA supported the NICS Improvement act which was there to keep those with mental illnesses who are a danger to themselves or other from obtaining a firearm.

The point I made in my post is that they also have fought to keep private sales (which constitute 20-40% of gun sales depending on the state) out of the scope of requiring a background check.

One cannot claim to be in favor of both "robust background checks" and "exempting private sales from background checks"...the latter largely negates the point (and efficacy) of the former.

Like the example I made in my previous post...

It'd be like me claiming to support stronger DUI laws to make our roads safer...but then also supporting laws that state that cops aren't allowed to set up checkpoints or pull people over on 40% of the roads in town (and then publish a list of those roads so that drunks know which roads to avoid so they don't get busted)

 

[Belk]

I do not care. I will GLADLY go to jail, to save a woman from being raped. I give a crap what the legal us laws are. If the law says I can't shoot a guy trying to a rape a women, then the law is wrong, and evil.

And quite frankly, I'd rather spend the rest of my life being able to look myself in the mirror behind bars, knowing I did what I could, than be a free man not being able to sleep with myself at night.

We have far too many pathetic excuses for men, in this country. Too worthless wimps who would rather have their own comfort, than standing up for what is right. Makes me sick.

You are a poster child for why we should limit gun access to those who can handle the responsibility of it.