The difficulty of talking to Atheist

[Colter]

No, Lucy is clearly aware of God's existence. Haven't you been watching DarkMatter2525 videos? She even interacts with him.

No, I haven't partaken in the mocking of my Father nor will I.

 

[Chany]

It would be helpful if you could grow up a little or don't participate in the discussion Chany. You've created your own screwed up example, an insincere question which is an obvious distortion of the spirit of the statement "the morality of any act is determined by an individual's motives". Creating some absurd example just to disprove the statement based on a technicality is silly.

What's the spirit of the statement except to say what it says? It claims that the morality of an act is determined by an individual's motives. When we examine a moral case, the gauge of its goodness or badness is the individual's motives. It reduces morality into whatever the individual's motives are.

An extreme case to prove a point is called an argument by example. I provided an example of something that we would never accept as moral, but, under the statement, would be moral. The example I provided was extreme, yes, but it is extreme to avoid grey area of lesser cases. It shows that something about the acts and consequences of a moral situation also matter and sometimes matter much more than the intention of the agent.

The agent's motives are important in determining the morality of an agent, not the moral act itself. This is especially apparent when we start to look at bad acts with bad consequences. The morality of a bad action doesn't change just because the agent intended some good to come out of it. It might lessen the culpability and wrongness of character of the agent, but it does not determine the morality of the entire moral act.

 

[Colter]

What's the spirit of the statement except to say what it says? It claims that the morality of an act is determined by an individual's motives. When we examine a moral case, the gauge of its goodness or badness is the individual's motives. It reduces morality into whatever the individual's motives are.

An extreme case to prove a point is called an argument by example. I provided an example of something that we would never accept as moral, but, under the statement, would be moral. The example I provided was extreme, yes, but it is extreme to avoid grey area of lesser cases. It shows that something about the acts and consequences of a moral situation also matter and sometimes matter much more than the intention of the agent.

The agent's motives are important in determining the morality of an agent, not the moral act itself. This is especially apparent when we start to look at bad acts with bad consequences. The morality of a bad action doesn't change just because the agent intended some good to come out of it. It might lessen the culpability and wrongness of character of the agent, but it does not determine the morality of the entire moral act.

The context is about judging an individual, not what his acts appear to be. According to your argument, if their is a God and you are to be judged, you are ok with how you appear, not the sincerity of your doubts about God. In your argument the mere outward appearance's of a phony Christian televangelist are what's important, not his true motives.

The example you used first requires an act of self delusion on the part of the rapist (he must deny his moral conviction that rape itself is a moral crime regardless). Evil cannot be inherently good.

 

[BL2KTN]

Lucifer also lived by faith like we do. While he knew his creator Paradise brother Christ Michael, aka Jesus of Nazareth, the unseen Father is still a matter of faith for may in the celestial world.

So did Lucifer not have a mommy and a daddy? Cause if he didn't, then he's about as dumb as they come if he can't figure out something (aka a god) created him. Not much of a supreme evil then if he's that stupid.

 

[Belk]

A good and obvious question. Lucifer also lived by faith like we do. While he knew his creator Paradise brother Christ Michael, aka Jesus of Nazareth, the unseen Father is still a matter of faith for may in the celestial world.

Lucifer was in an ideological battle against God the Son over power and authority. Lucifer's chief claim was that the Universal Father didn't really exist.

read all about it here:

Paper 53 - The Lucifer Rebellion | Urantia Book | Urantia Foundation

 

[Colter]

So did Lucifer not have a mommy and a daddy? Cause if he didn't, then he's about as dumb as they come if he can't figure out something (aka a god) created him. Not much of a supreme evil then if he's that stupid.

Yes, the same Son of God that created us, the one that you turned your back on. If its not obvious to you then why should it be more obvious to Lucifer? While he is of a different realm the existential personification of the I AM is just as much a matter of faith to the created celestial beings and though rare, they areca[able of sin and rebellion.

 

[Colter]

That's funny

Would you prefer one of the many muddy, contradictory stories about Satan used by what would have to be a God of 2 wills?

 

[bhsmte]

That's funny

Would you prefer one of the many muddy, contradictory stories about Satan used by what would have to be a God of 2 wills?

Stories, stories and more stories.........................

 

[BL2KTN]

Yes, the same Son of God that created us, the one that you turned your back on. If its not obvious to you then why should it be more obvious to Lucifer?

I was created when my parents had sex. I was not created by the child of a deity. Lucifer, on the other hand, didn't have parents. Is he so incredibly stupid that he doesn't wonder where he came from? Does he not have memory of being created?

While he is of a different realm the existential personification of the I AM is just as much a matter of faith to the created celestial beings and though rare, they areca[able of sin and rebellion.

If ol' I AM is a matter of faith to celestial beings, are they not created by I AM? If they're not, then are they born from parents? Does that mean celestial beings start out as infants like humans?

I sometimes want to react with a response showing how crazy and ridiculous I find your statements. Then I stand back and remember that what the other believers say is just as ridiculous except that I've heard their stories so many times it lacks the impact.

 

[dac2015]

I was created when my parents had sex. I was not created by the child of a deity. Lucifer, on the other hand, didn't have parents. Is he so incredibly stupid that he doesn't wonder where he came from? Does he not have memory of being created? If ol' I AM is a matter of faith to celestial beings, are they not created by I AM? If they're not, then are they born from parents? Does that mean celestial beings start out as infants like humans? I sometimes want to react with a response showing how crazy and ridiculous I find your statements. Then I stand back and remember that what the other believers say is just as ridiculous except that I've heard their stories so many times it lacks the impact.

lol blue lightning I take it your an atheist? Why is that?

 

[Colter]

I was created when my parents had sex. I was not created by the child of a deity. Lucifer, on the other hand, didn't have parents. Is he so incredibly stupid that he doesn't wonder where he came from? Does he not have memory of being created?



If ol' I AM is a matter of faith to celestial beings, are they not created by I AM? If they're not, then are they born from parents? Does that mean celestial beings start out as infants like humans?

I sometimes want to react with a response showing how crazy and ridiculous I find your statements. Then I stand back and remember that what the other believers say is just as ridiculous except that I've heard their stories so many times it lacks the impact.

Yes, you were conceived when your parents had sex, you weren't conscious of being conscious until some years later.

Lucifer knew who his heavenly parents were, he lost faith in their God, you lost faith your parents God presumably, but maybe they had no God.

 

[Colter]

Stories, stories and more stories.........................

Its a better story. Better than the story of a really dense ball that exploded, life happened on its own, isn't the universe neat, then you die.

 

[bhsmte]

Its a better story. Better than the story of a really dense ball that exploded, life happened on its own, isn't the universe neat, then you die.

Pick the story of your liking, no one is stopping you.

 

[BL2KTN]

lol blue lightning I take it your an atheist? Why is that?

My icon shows "deist," and that is what I am.

Yes, you were conceived when your parents had sex, you weren't conscious of being conscious until some years later.

I was conscious at first breath. I did not yet have the ability to retain memories in the way I do now, nor was my consciousness as developed.

Lucifer knew who his heavenly parents were, he lost faith in their God, you lost faith your parents God presumably, but maybe they had no God.

So who are Lucifer's mommy and daddy?

 

[bhsmte]

Yes, you were conceived when your parents had sex, you weren't conscious of being conscious until some years later.

Lucifer knew who his heavenly parents were, he lost faith in their God, you lost faith your parents God presumably, but maybe they had no God.

Do you think humans require a God, to live a good life?

 

[Chany]

lol blue lightning I take it your an atheist? Why is that?

He's actually a deist, if I remember correctly.

 

[PsychoSarah]

A lot of times I don't think we are prepared to debate an atheist. Every atheist I know studies studies, and more studies. They're not stupid, at all. And another thing is if they don't believe in God you're not going to be able to use the Bible to convince them; it's irrelevant to them. I think probably the most important thing is to be prepared logically, and spiritually.

Don't you think that if we found the bible convincing, we wouldn't be atheists? It isn't as if we haven't read it or even been open to it being right. Is it so hard to understand that different people can read the same text and not get the same thing out of it?

 

[PsychoSarah]

He's actually a deist, if I remember correctly.

I think I recall him saying that too

 

[PsychoSarah]

Its a better story. Better than the story of a really dense ball that exploded, life happened on its own, isn't the universe neat, then you die.

I don't know, the old testament is pretty poorly written

 

[Colter]

I don't know, the old testament is pretty poorly written

I agree with that, but it wasn't written by one person in a week, rather its more fragmented, layered then redone. The same story is even told in different ways.