The difficulty of talking to Atheist

[Ken-1122]

I keep using the word "ultimately", is that not showing up in my posts?

If "ultimately" means a million years from now; maybe ultimately doesn't matter; and if it does then attempt to do something that will be remembered, or affect the world for a million years.

K

 

[PsychoSarah]

Yes, its a generalization that I'm making.

I'd say that there are more atheists who believe in the afterlife than not.

 

[Colter]

It's a doctrine of life, not death. Whether it is one's own life or someone else's that one benefits, it is life that is served. The value is life, not death.

You are the one seeing the glass as half-empty instead of half-full. It is your own negativity that you are projecting onto the issue. We atheists who don't believe in afterlives are being positive.



That is cheap rhetoric. We aren't saying that death is a wonderful thing. We simply accept it as a fact of reality.

We could just as easily say that your doctrine is one of empty wish-fulfillment by belief in a non-existent afterlife. Of course, that wouldn't be your actual position.


eudaimonia,

Mark

In the end what you promote is a glass that becomes completely empty for the individual regardless of how I perceive it. To me that's not a very appealing philosophy just as my philosophy of an eternal life of endless growth and service to others may not appeal to you.

 

[Colter]

I'd say that there are more atheists who believe in the afterlife than not.

What must that look like? I wonder if their skepticism about the resurrection of the dead survives death?

 

[PsychoSarah]

In the end what you promote is a glass that becomes completely empty for the individual regardless of how I perceive it. To me that's not a very appealing philosophy just as my philosophy of an eternal life of endless growth and service to others may not appeal to you.

No, the afterlife is very appealing to me. I don't understand this idea theists have that atheists don't find their beliefs appealing. I am not a theist because I haven't seen any evidence for the existence of gods, it isn't as if I want to be correct on that matter. In fact, I hope I am wrong. Belief isn't solely about what you want to believe, but also what you are capable of believing. You couldn't hope to make yourself believe the sky was green no matter how much you wanted it to be true, and for me a similar situation applies to the belief in gods.

 

[PsychoSarah]

What must that look like? I wonder if their skepticism about the resurrection of the dead survives death?

You have to rethink your concept of atheism. Again, and atheist is only someone who doesn't believe in deities. A denomination of Buddhism does not believe in deities, therefore, these Buddhists are atheists. Buddhists do however believe in reincarnation, which I count as a sort of afterlife. Any religion that doesn't have deities in its teachings or traditions is an atheistic religion.

 

[Belk]

How was what determined? that a dead person isn't conscious? Common sense maybe?

Sorry, I meant how is it determined that if there is no afterlife (which an atheist is perfectly capable of believing in, even if most do not) life is ultimately meaningless?

For the pessimist it must not matter.

I think in the long run it does not matter for anyone since it has no effect on reality.

 

[Eudaimonist]

In the end what you promote is a glass that becomes completely empty for the individual regardless of how I perceive it. To me that's not a very appealing philosophy

Reality isn't always appealing, but it is still reality. Yes, people die, but that doesn't mean that their lives weren't meaningful and complete in themselves.

Death may be disappointing to someone who believes that they were promised eternal life. However, what appeals to me is placing the emphasis on life -- this life -- in the face of inevitable death. Life is the top value here, not death. We have to work with reality as it actually exists, not as we might like it to exist.

just as my philosophy of an eternal life of endless growth and service to others may not appeal to you.

Whether it appeals to me or not is not at issue. Personally, I'd love a few extra thousand years of life in which to grow as a person. All I am saying is that this life has meaning without the need for eternal life, and that the top value is life. Recognizing the reality of death does not require seeing life as unworthwhile.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Loudmouth]

What must that look like? I wonder if their skepticism about the resurrection of the dead survives death?

I wonder if you can provide evidence that your beliefs are true.

 

[Colter]

If "ultimately" means a million years from now; maybe ultimately doesn't matter; and if it does then attempt to do something that will be remembered, or affect the world for a million years.

K

I am doing something, I'm keeping hope alive during this materialistic winter of mechanistic sophistry, for future generations of believers whose work will culminate in the age of "light and life" when the gospel of the kingdom of heaven comes to full fruition. Eventually secular totalitarianism will die out along with the Atheist of the age.

 

[Loudmouth]

I am doing something, I'm keeping hope alive during this materialistic winter of mechanistic sophistry, for future generations of believers whose work will culminate in the age of "light and life" when the gospel of the kingdom of heaven comes to full fruition. Eventually secular totalitarianism will die out along with the Atheist of the age.

Let us know when you have something other than empty assertions to back your claims.

 

[Colter]

I wonder if you can provide evidence that your beliefs are true.

I have already answered that question. The answer is NO! But even if you are right and there is no life after death, I will have no regret and you won't have the pleasure of saying I told you so.

 

[Colter]

Let us know when you have something other than empty assertions to back your claims.

Let us know when you have something other than empty assertions to back your claims.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I am doing something, I'm keeping hope alive during this materialistic winter of mechanistic sophistry, for future generations of believers whose work will culminate in the age of "light and life" when the gospel of the kingdom of heaven comes to full fruition. Eventually secular totalitarianism will die out along with the Atheist of the age.

Again, not accounting for the possibility you are wrong. If you are wrong and you dedicate your whole life essentially to something which will never happen, is that not a life wasted?

 

[Belk]

Let us know when you have something other than empty assertions to back your claims.

Atheism does not make claims. Ergo nothing is required.

 

[Colter]

Reality isn't always appealing, but it is still reality. Yes, people die, but that doesn't mean that their lives weren't meaningful and complete in themselves.

Haven't we addressed this? You are right!

Death may be disappointing to someone who believes that they were promised eternal life. However, what appeals to me is placing the emphasis on life -- this life -- in the face of inevitable death. Life is the top value here, not death. We have to work with reality as it actually exists, not as we might like it to exist.

Being dead isn't disappointing to the dead, they are dead.

To the contrary, this life is the only priority for the salvaged sons of God, living intensely in he moment. Salvation is to be taken for granted. We are both talking about an altruism in the present life, that is good, but in terms of a long range plan, today is a preparation for tomorrow, this life is a preparation for the next, and that place will be a preparation for still more translation in endless service to others.

Whether it appeals to me or not is not at issue. All I am saying is that this life has meaning without the need for eternal life, and that the top value is life.

Understood, I get your point, but we do live in "time" tomorrow will come, we can't really avoid that.


eudaimonia,

Mark[/QUOTE]

 

[PsychoSarah]

Only saving those that believe in the salvation is not an act of altruism

 

[Loudmouth]

Let us know when you have something other than empty assertions to back your claims.

Atheism doesn't make any positive claims as to the existence or non-existence of deities.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Atheism doesn't make any positive claims as to the existence or non-existence of deities.

Unless you are an gnostic atheist, which most atheists aren't

 

[Colter]

Again, not accounting for the possibility you are wrong. If you are wrong and you dedicate your whole life essentially to something which will never happen, is that not a life wasted?

Not according to other Atheist on this thread, I find a great deal of meaning in the joy and service to others, in the faith adventure of seeking Gods will and actually doing that will. I enjoy the communion of other believers tremendously.

The greatest example of one giving their life as a contribution to the spiritual life others would be Jesus.