The Danger of "Keeping Sabbath."

[Mercy Shown]

@Mercy Shown

Do works have anything to do with our salvation? Jesus says they do.

Revelation 20: 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

What is this does away with the idea what we do has nothing to do salvation as every man is judged according his works.

Because of this fact, and the fact that our works will never be good enough. Jesus imputed his works on us that we might stand before God perfect.

So, yes we will be judged by our works so one either has to up their game to perfection or humble themselves before God and accept His righteousness and allow Him to take all of our sin upon Himself.

As Paul said to Titus, “it is not because of the good works we have done…”

Praise, praise be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Revelation 22: 10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

What else does Jesus say about salvation?

See above on how you can be perfect.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So knowing God is salvation. It isn't justification. It is knowing God. i.e. having a relationship with Him, who is purifying us. Jesus is our one stop source of salvation. Without that personal purifying relationship we are lost.

Yes!

 

[Mercy Shown]

Brother, you have the reason God was angry with them and made an "oath" to punish them, but not how God accomplished His punishment with Manna in the desert so that those who died, "they will never enter my place of rest". Importantly, Joshua was among those punished in the desert with Manna who entered the promised land, yet did not give Israel this another "day" of rest still to come. The rest cannot be the promised land for those that died in the desert because Joshua entered the promised land but did not succeed in giving Israel this another "day" of rest still to come. This was a punishment in addition to not letting them enter the promised land for 40 years with Manna in the desert.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

Paul tells us what he means by his use of the word "rest". "Rest" in this passage does not mean anything other than what Paul tells us he means in the following passage; the rest of God on the seventh "day" of creation. The passage reveals that Judaism has not fully understood God's rest on the seventh "day" of creation to enter God's "day" of rest outside of Jerusalem like here in the United States. They have a human tradition of the Sabbath and not the true biblical Sabbath since creation. What I learned is that when God made the seventh day of creation holy, He separated that "day" from the week, fixing His "day" of rest in the time zone of Eden and that is why Jerusalem remembers the Sabbath half a day earlier than the true seventh day of the week in Jerusalem, the days of the week being from morning to morning and not from evening to evening.

For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” (Hebrews 4:3-4 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

The other day of rest is eternity with God.

 

[guevaraj]

The other day of rest is eternity with God.

Brother, that is not another "day" of rest than what has been understood since Joshua in keeping the Sabbath.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Sunday over Saturday. Although it does explain why the Holy Spirit has not done more to correct Sunday for Saturday. Neither Saturday nor Sunday is the true biblical Sabbath corrected in the new covenant by Paul in the book of Hebrews. Corrected for those who follow the Holy Spirit's message by Paul in the book of Hebrews to obey the Sabbath better than Judaism before the return of Jesus. Paul's message warns that if we disobey the Sabbath like those in the desert who were late by half a day to enter the Sabbath during those 40 years, we will "fall" like those who died in the desert.

God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said, “In my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest,’” even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work.” But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest.” So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Gary K]

Because of this fact, and the fact that our works will never be good enough. Jesus imputed his works on us that we might stand before God perfect.

So, yes we will be judged by our works so one either has to up their game to perfection or humble themselves before God and accept His righteousness and allow Him to take all of our sin upon Himself.

As Paul said to Titus, “it is not because of the good works we have done…”

Praise, praise be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

See above on how you can be perfect.

Yes!

You completely ignore sanctification. Jesus sanctifies us. It's not about "upping our game" for that is impossible. It's about dying daily to self and allowing Jesus our "purifier" to change us to a state of purification.

1Corinthians 1: 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

righteousness = [*StrongsGreek*]
01343
δικαιοσύνη dikaiosýnē, dik-ah-yos-oo'-nay
from 1342;
equity (of character or act); specially (Christian) justification:--righteousness.

santification = [*StrongsGreek*]
00038
ἁγιασμός hagiasmós, hag-ee-as-mos'
from 37;
properly, purification, i.e. (the state) purity; concretely (by Hebraism) a purifier:--holiness, sanctification.

Jesus is our purifier changing us into a state of purfication.

Matthew 1: 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

from = [*StrongsGreek*]
00575
ἀπό apó, apo'
a primary particle;
"off," i.e. away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literal or figurative):--(X here-)after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for(-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-)on(-ce), since, with.
In composition (as a prefix) it usually denotes separation, departure, cessation, completion, reversal, etc.

 

[Mercy Shown]

How many people who don't murder someone forfeit Christ? It is God who sanctifies us, makes us more like Him. Your argument falls flat on it's face when you apply it to the entire law like I did from Jeremiah 7. You base your entire thesis relies on there being only imputed righteousness when the Bible clearly teaches differently.

Revelation 12: 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Here you assume two things. The first assumption is that remenent are tge remenent because they keep the commandments of God.

The second assumption is that the commandments of God mentioned in the passage refers to the Ten Commandments.

But maybe your assumptions are wrong. Maybe the comands of God are what He commands you to do day by day and hour by hour. Maybe your assumption that by obeying the Ten Commandments you become a part of the remenent is backwards. Perhaps being born again and made alive while we were dead in our sins and trespasses engenders obedience to Gods commands to us while walking after the Spirit.

Revelation 14: 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Do you mistake this description of the results of salvation as a requirement for salvation. We do not obey robe saved. We are saved to obey. God brings us to spiritual life while we were dead in our sins and tresspasses.

Paul has this to say.

Ephesians 2: 1 AND you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Are you a child of disobedience? Or are you one who in times past fulfilled the lists of our flesh and by nature a child of wrath? Is your old man dead or fully alive and kicking?

2Corinthians 5: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

1Corinthians 1: 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

righteousness = [*StrongsGreek*]
01343
δικαιοσύνη dikaiosýnē, dik-ah-yos-oo'-nay
from 1342;
equity (of character or act); specially (Christian) justification:--righteousness.

sanctification = [*StrongsGreek*]
00038
ἁγιασμός hagiasmós, hag-ee-as-mos'
from 37;
properly, purification, i.e. (the state) purity; concretely (by Hebraism) a purifier:--holiness, sanctification.

Jesus is made unto us wisdom, justification, a purifier who purifies us. and redemption.

So how likely is it someone whom Jesus is purifying will forfeit Jesus as that takes a deep relationship? What did Paul say along these lines?

1Corinthians 15: 31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Paul's old man had to die daily. Are you more spiritual than Paul?

You have the cart before the horse. All of these texts describe a saint downstream from salvation.

 

[Mercy Shown]

You completely ignore sanctification. Jesus sanctifies us. It's not about "upping our game" for that is impossible. It's about dying daily to self and allowing Jesus our "purifier" to change us to a state of purification.

1Corinthians 1: 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

righteousness = [*StrongsGreek*]
01343
δικαιοσύνη dikaiosýnē, dik-ah-yos-oo'-nay
from 1342;
equity (of character or act); specially (Christian) justification:--righteousness.

santification = [*StrongsGreek*]
00038
ἁγιασμός hagiasmós, hag-ee-as-mos'
from 37;
properly, purification, i.e. (the state) purity; concretely (by Hebraism) a purifier:--holiness, sanctification.

Jesus is our purifier changing us into a state of purfication.

Matthew 1: 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

from = [*StrongsGreek*]
00575
ἀπό apó, apo'
a primary particle;
"off," i.e. away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literal or figurative):--(X here-)after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for(-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-)on(-ce), since, with.
In composition (as a prefix) it usually denotes separation, departure, cessation, completion, reversal, etc.

Read my past posts and you will discover you are wrong. It is one of my main themes.

By his one sacrifice, He has perfected us forever, while we are still being made Holy.

You seem to be looking at the behavioral aspect of sanctification only but the primary definition of sanctify is to set apart and declare something holy and this God has already done for His saints. Even as He is making us Holy.

 

[Gary K]

Because of this fact, and the fact that our works will never be good enough. Jesus imputed his works on us that we might stand before God perfect.

So, yes we will be judged by our works so one either has to up their game to perfection or humble themselves before God and accept His righteousness and allow Him to take all of our sin upon Himself.

As Paul said to Titus, “it is not because of the good works we have done…”

Praise, praise be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

See above on how you can be perfect.

Yes!

Read my past posts and you will discover you are wrong. It is one of my main themes.

By his one sacrifice, He has perfected us forever, while we are still being made Holy.

You seem to be looking at the behavioral aspect of sanctification only but the primary definition of sanctify is to set apart and declare something holy and this God has already done for His saints. Even as He is making us Holy.

I have read your posts. The primary function of sanctification is as follows:

Corinthians 1: 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

[*StrongsGreek*]
00038
ἁγιασμός hagiasmós, hag-ee-as-mos'
from 37;
properly, purification, i.e. (the state) purity; concretely (by Hebraism) a purifier:--holiness, sanctification.

You're once again ignoring the very meaning of sanctification.

Paul uses the word sanctification 3 more times in scripture and Peter once. In every instance they use the exact same Greek word.

1Thessalonians 4:1, 4
2Thessalonians 2: 13
1Peter 1: 2

In the OT the following Hebrew word is translated as sanctify.

[*StrongsHebrew*]
6942
קדשׁ
qâdash kaw-dash'
A primitive root; to be (causatively {make} pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally): - {appoint} {bid} {consecrate} {dedicate} {defile} {hallow} ({be} keep) holy ({-er} {place}) {keep} {prepare} {proclaim} {purify} sanctify (-ied {one} {self}) X wholly.

It is used in multiple ways because the Israelites sanctified inanimate objects for temple use. An inanimate object must be declared holy as it cannot become morally clean.

 

[Mercy Shown]

I have read your posts. The primary function of sanctification is as follows:

Corinthians 1: 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

[*StrongsGreek*]
00038
ἁγιασμός hagiasmós, hag-ee-as-mos'
from 37;
properly, purification, i.e. (the state) purity; concretely (by Hebraism) a purifier:--holiness, sanctification.

You should use the whole definition and not just the parts you like.

hagiasmos: consecration, sanctification
Original Word: ἁγιασμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hagiasmos
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-as-mos')
Definition: consecration, sanctification
Usage: the process of making or becoming holy, set apart, sanctification, holiness, consecration.

As you can see it is much broder than just prifications. Still, you miss the point. We are perfected forever by Christ's one sacrifice while still being made Holy. In other words our salvation is guaranteed by Christ sacrifice as a long as we choose to follow Him and we're counted perfect before Go even while the work of being made holy goes on in us.

The problem with legalism is that it makes sanctification works to achieve savation rather than a result of salvation. Legalism makes man partialy or fully responsible for sanctification rather than acknowledgeing sanctification is Christ. Neither your best work nor mine in anyway affect oursalvation andneither do our worst failures. Unles that failure is to reject Christ.

If I am guessing correctly, one of your church's founders wrote. We are not to serve God as if we were not human, but we are to serve Him in the nature we have, that has been redeemed by the Son of God; through the righteousness of Christ we shall stand before God pardoned, and as though we had never sinned ~White

You're once again ignoring the very meaning of sanctification.

You have given only one aspect of sanctification and ignored the rest. This steals from its beauty, signifcnce and connection to the mercy and grace of God.

Paul uses the word sanctification 3 more times in scripture and Peter once. In every instance they use the exact same Greek word.

1Thessalonians 4:1, 4
2Thessalonians 2: 13
1Peter 1: 2

In the OT the following Hebrew word is translated as sanctify.

[*StrongsHebrew*]
6942
קדשׁ
qâdash kaw-dash'
A primitive root; to be (causatively {make} pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally): - {appoint} {bid} {consecrate} {dedicate} {defile} {hallow} ({be} keep) holy ({-er} {place}) {keep} {prepare} {proclaim} {purify} sanctify (-ied {one} {self}) X wholly.

It is used in multiple ways because the Israelites sanctified inanimate objects for temple use. An inanimate object must be declared holy as it cannot become morally clean. (1 JOhn 3:9) We are continually being made clean by the indwelling of Christ.

It means a lot more than just be clean. But suffice it to say, we are clean in Christ. In fact we cannot sin because His seed remains in us.

So many of the hymns we Christians sing are hearsy to the legalist.:

Jesus Paid It All
Blessed Assurance
Redeemed How I Love To Proclaim It
At The Cross
etc.

 

[Gary K]

You should use the whole definition and not just the parts you like.

hagiasmos: consecration, sanctification
Original Word: ἁγιασμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hagiasmos
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-as-mos')
Definition: consecration, sanctification
Usage: the process of making or becoming holy, set apart, sanctification, holiness, consecration.

As you can see it is much broder than just prifications. Still, you miss the point. We are perfected forever by Christ's one sacrifice while still being made Holy. In other words our salvation is guaranteed by Christ sacrifice as a long as we choose to follow Him and we're counted perfect before Go even while the work of being made holy goes on in us.

The problem with legalism is that it makes sanctification works to achieve savation rather than a result of salvation. Legalism makes man partialy or fully responsible for sanctification rather than acknowledgeing sanctification is Christ. Neither your best work nor mine in anyway affect oursalvation andneither do our worst failures. Unles that failure is to reject Christ.

If I am guessing correctly, one of your church's founders wrote. We are not to serve God as if we were not human, but we are to serve Him in the nature we have, that has been redeemed by the Son of God; through the righteousness of Christ we shall stand before God pardoned, and as though we had never sinned ~White

You have given only one aspect of sanctification and ignored the rest. This steals from its beauty, signifcnce and connection to the mercy and grace of God.

It means a lot more than just be clean. But suffice it to say, we are clean in Christ. In fact we cannot sin because His seed remains in us.

So many of the hymns we Christians sing are hearsy to the legalist.:

Jesus Paid It All
Blessed Assurance
Redeemed How I Love To Proclaim It
At The Cross
etc.

Your info does not cancel out Strong's meaning. It is included.

We cannot sin? That contradicts the entire Bible. To set apart for holiness for a sentient creature means to purify them morally or they are not holy.

I love the old hymns you listed. They don't mean justification only.

Here is the meaning of the word redeemed.

Adjective: redeemed ri'deemd

1. (Christianity) saved from the bondage of sin
   - ransomed

Verb: redeem ri'deem

1. (religion) Prevent committing sins
   - deliver, save
2. Restore the honour or worth of
3. To turn in (vouchers or coupons) and receive something in exchange
4. (crime) exchange or buy back for money; under threat
   - ransom
5. Pay off (loans or promissory notes)
   - pay off
6. Convert into cash; of commercial papers

See also: pay, saved

James 1: 21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Romans 7: 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

How does a commandment that is holy, just, and good hold a person in bondage? Righteousness cannot do that.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Your info does not cancel out Strong's meaning. It is included.

You’re still missing the point. The point is we must take the broad meaning of sanctification which includes all of the aspects that strong mentions. Legalists love the self purifying sanctification that doesn’t work because it gives them some control.

But Sanctification is Christ to work in us not our works. Paul makes it clear that those whom he justifies he sanctifies and glorifies. It is he who justifies! It is he who sanctifies! It is he who glorifies!

We cannot sin? That contradicts the entire Bible.

How can you say that when I gave you the text that says that very thing. It says those were born again cannot sin for Christ seed remains in them.

To set apart for holiness for a sentient creature means to purify them morally or they are not holy.

They have been made perfect forever by Christ one sacrifice. This occurs while they are still being made holy. A very difficult concept for people to understand. But when does not need to understand it to accept it by faith.

I love the old hymns you listed. They don't mean justification only.

Here is the meaning of the word redeemed.

Adjective: redeemed ri'deemd

1. (Christianity) saved from the bondage of sin
   - ransomed

Verb: redeem ri'deem

1. (religion) Prevent committing sins
   - deliver, save
2. Restore the honour or worth of
3. To turn in (vouchers or coupons) and receive something in exchange
4. (crime) exchange or buy back for money; under threat
   - ransom
5. Pay off (loans or promissory notes)
   - pay off
6. Convert into cash; of commercial papers

See also: pay, saved

James 1: 21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Romans 7: 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

How does a commandment that is holy, just, and good hold a person in bondage? Righteousness cannot do that.

This is correct. The law can only shows how sinful we are but it cannot save us. It has no power to create righteousness in us it only has power to condemn us. But if we flee to Christ he has the power to save us and impute righteousness onto us and that is the righteousness that will save not ours.

 

[Gary K]

You’re still missing the point. The point is we must take the broad meaning of sanctification which includes all of the aspects that strong mentions. Legalists love the self purifying sanctification that doesn’t work because it gives them some control.

But Sanctification is Christ to work in us not our works. Paul makes it clear that those whom he justifies he sanctifies and glorifies. It is he who justifies! It is he who sanctifies! It is he who glorifies!

How can you say that when I gave you the text that says that very thing. It says those were born again cannot sin for Christ seed remains in them.

They have been made perfect forever by Christ one sacrifice. This occurs while they are still being made holy. A very difficult concept for people to understand. But when does not need to understand it to accept it by faith.

This is correct. The law can only shows how sinful we are but it cannot save us. It has no power to create righteousness in us it only has power to condemn us. But if we flee to Christ he has the power to save us and impute righteousness onto us and that is the righteousness that will save not ours.

Jesus purifying us is us purifying ourselves? Seems you have reading comprehension problems.

So you're now contradicting everything you have said in this thread up to now when you say we cannot sin. Your entire message has been that we cannot stop sinning. The entire Bible tells us that we have fallen natures and are prone to sin. You've objected to Matthew 1: 20, 21 as well as sanctification as well as multiple verses from Revelation saying God will have a commandment keeping people at the end of time. Now you pit one verse against the rest of the Bible. Your positions just keep on getting stranger all the time.

To put it bluntly, you change your tune all the time and contradict yourself regularly.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Jesus purifying us is us purifying ourselves? Seems you have reading comprehension problems.

So you're now contradicting everything you have said in this thread up to now when you say we cannot sin. Your entire message has been that we cannot stop sinning. The entire Bible tells us that we have fallen natures and are prone to sin. You've objected to Matthew 1: 20, 21 as well as sanctification as well as multiple verses from Revelation saying God will have a commandment keeping people at the end of time. Now you pit one verse against the rest of the Bible. Your positions just keep on getting stranger all the time.

To put it bluntly, you change your tune all the time and contradict yourself regularly.

What I am trying to say must be spiritually discerned. There is no contradiction but it will sound like foolishness to our natural hearts.

I have never objected to any of God’s word. God lays out His law which cannot be kept onto salvation by the human nature and that is not its purpose. It’s purpose is to bring us to Christ who purchased us from the law, redeemed us from its curse by bearing the curse for us.

In Him is found the fulfillment of all righteousness and we are counted perfectly righteous the minuet we believe. Since Christ bears all of our sins we can no longer be counted a sinner as long as His seed remains in us.

We rest from all our labor to be saved because it is finished as Christ pronounced on the cross.

When we draw close to God, we keenly feel our sinfulness and our inabilities and the fact that God loves us anyway and becomes sin for us drives us into His arms of love where we fiercely desire to obey and be like him not to be saved for that has been done, but to love and glorify Him.

 

[Gary K]

What I am trying to say must be spiritually discerned. There is no contradiction but it will sound like foolishness to our natural hearts.

I have never objected to any of God’s word. God lays out His law which cannot be kept onto salvation by the human nature and that is not its purpose. It’s purpose is to bring us to Christ who purchased us from the law, redeemed us from its curse by bearing the curse for us.

In Him is found the fulfillment of all righteousness and we are counted perfectly righteous the minuet we believe. Since Christ bears all of our sins we can no longer be counted a sinner as long as His seed remains in us.

We rest from all our labor to be saved because it is finished as Christ pronounced on the cross.

When we draw close to God, we keenly feel our sinfulness and our inabilities and the fact that God loves us anyway and becomes sin for us drives us into His arms of love where we fiercely desire to obey and be like him not to be saved for that has been done, but to love and glorify Him

Sorry, I've had all of it I can take. I'm done. You can tell other people your fairy tales.

 

[guevaraj]

I have never objected to any of God’s word. God lays out His law which cannot be kept onto salvation by the human nature and that is not its purpose. It’s purpose is to bring us to Christ who purchased us from the law, redeemed us from its curse by bearing the curse for us.

Brother, let's see the result of not going to our High Priest Jesus in the heavenly temple to ask for forgiveness! David did what modern Christians do when they do not turn to the heavenly temple to immediately seek forgiveness from our High Priest Jesus after sinning, as God asks of those who sin, providing a way to quickly eliminate sin, to continue a sinless life.

My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous. He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world. And we can be sure that we know him if we obey his commandments. If someone claims, “I know God,” but doesn’t obey God’s commandments, that person is a liar and is not living in the truth. But those who obey God’s word truly show how completely they love him. That is how we know we are living in him. Those who say they live in God should live their lives as Jesus did. (1 John 2:1-6 NLT)​

If David had gone to the temple seeking forgiveness after taking another man's wife by breaking the Seventh Commandment of adultery, David would never have killed that woman's husband by continuing in sin, but because David did not seek forgiveness in the temple for his sin, he continued to sin to cover up his previous sin by killing the woman's husband to hide the child from her true husband before God, now breaking the Sixth Commandment in addition to having already broken the Seventh Commandment.

David was furious. “As surely as the LORD lives,” he vowed, “any man who would do such a thing deserves to die! He must repay four lambs to the poor man for the one he stole and for having no pity.” Then Nathan said to David, “You are that man! . . . Then David confessed to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” Nathan replied, “Yes, but the LORD has forgiven you, and you won’t die for this sin. Nevertheless, because you have shown utter contempt for the word of the LORD by doing this, your child will die.” (2 Samuel 12:5-7a, 13-14 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Mercy Shown]

Sorry, I've had all of it I can take. I'm done. You can tell other people your fairy tales.

I understand, I was there at one time myself. I believed that righteousness by grace needed my help. But fortunately God inally got through to me.

 

[Gary K]

I understand, I was there at one time myself. I believed that righteousness by grace needed my help. But fortunately God inally got through to me.

Nope. You have done nothing but demonstrate a total unwillingness to understand the Biblical position and consistently contradicted yourself.

Jesus came to save us from our sins. You believe He saves us in our sins.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Nope. You have done nothing but demonstrate a total unwillingness to understand the Biblical position and consistently contradicted yourself.

Jesus came to save us from our sins. You believe He saves us in our sins.

You are wrong on both counts. Legalism does that to a person. I know because it did it to me.

Legalism can’t fully trust Christ righteousness to save them from sin. It may agree that it is good for past sins but then one must shape up or ship out.

The difference between legalism and grace is the former doesn’t recognize sin but the latter does. Both sin but legalism is not aware of its sin.

The only ones saved from sin are those who by faith submit to Christs righteousness. It appears that you have a hard time imagining why anyone would obey Christ if they didn’t have to, but isn’t that exactly what Jesus is after?

I know that I would be disappointed if my kids would not obey me unless I threatened them with an eternal judgement.

 

[Gary K]

You are wrong on both counts. Legalism does that to a person. I know because it did it to me.

Legalism can’t fully trust Christ righteousness to save them from sin. It may agree that it is good for past sins but then one must shape up or ship out.

The difference between legalism and grace is the former doesn’t recognize sin but the latter does. Both sin but legalism is not aware of its sin.

The only ones saved from sin are those who by faith submit to Christs righteousness. It appears that you have a hard time imagining why anyone would obey Christ if they didn’t have to, but isn’t that exactly what Jesus is after?

I know that I would be disappointed if my kids would not obey me unless I threatened them with an eternal judgement.

So because you're legalistic everyone else is too? Nobody can possibly have a stronger relationship with God than you can? That is extremely arrogant and self righteous.

 

[Mercy Shown]

So because you're legalistic everyone else is too? Nobody can possibly have a stronger relationship with God than you can? That is extremely arrogant and self righteous.

Why do you set up a strawman and knock it down. If you think I have ever made those claims, you have a problem with reality. I have described legalism. Legalism says there is something one must do either in part or in whole to merit salvation, whether it is keeping the Sabbath according to ones own rules or refraining from committing adultery to earn God's approbation.

These are things that should flow from our love for God because he saved us not as a penance to appease His wrath or earn a reward or to be saved.

While in we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Our unclean hearts of flesh is the very reason we need Christ and we will fight against the flesh until the day we are changed in the twinkling of an eye. But thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Gary K]

Why do you set up a strawman and knock it down. If you think I have ever made those claims, you have a problem with reality. I have described legalism. Legalism says there is something one must do either in part or in whole to merit salvation, whether it is keeping the Sabbath according to ones own rules or refraining from committing adultery to earn God's approbation.

These are things that should flow from our love for God because he saved us not as a penance to appease His wrath or earn a reward or to be saved.

While in we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Our unclean hearts of flesh is the very reason we need Christ and we will fight against the flesh until the day we are changed in the twinkling of an eye. But thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

.Here are your words.

You are wrong on both counts. Legalism does that to a person. I know because it did it to me.

Legalism can’t fully trust Christ righteousness to save them from sin. It may agree that it is good for past sins but then one must shape up or ship out.

So because you were legalistic everyone that relies on Jesus to change them, even though scripture says He came to save us from our sins, is a legalist. No one can have a greater faith than you? No one can be more humble than you are? No one can have a spiritual experience you failed at? That is extremely arrogant and legalistic.