The Consequences of Creationism

[john crawford]

In other words you have nothing but PRATTS to support your young earth mythology.
F.B.

No, my YEC religion and science supports my YEC science and mythology just like your OEE religion and science supports your OEE science and mythology, whatever PRATTS are.

 

[john crawford]

So, john crawford, you admit your rhetorical skills are inadequate to explain your thoughts clearly? It must be lonely to be so intelligent you can’t communicate with lesser intellects.

That's your admission and claim, not mine.

I abase myself before your divine mentality...

Worship your Creator rather than anything or anyone created by Him.

 

[john crawford]

Told ya' this thread would be short lived.

 

[chaoschristian]

If, as you claim, political power corrupts, why should Christians tolerate any corrupt political power over them which, as you say, defiles the heart of the Christian message? Advising Christians not to vote for Christian politicians amounts to a guarantee of political suppression of Christians by corrupt non-Christian politicians. Since secular and atheistic politics are corrupt, by your own definition and admission, why should any Christian vote for atheistic or secular policies unless they are politically schizophrenic?

1. I assert only that the seeking of political power by Christians for Christian evangelical purposes will result in the necessary corruption of the Gospel message.
2. A Christian cannot be a politician. The values of Christianity and the values of politics are diametrically opposed to one another. There is no reconciliation. There is not such thing as a Christian politician. This is the one case in which I am willing to seriously assert on a general basis that a Christian is being deceived, especially self-deceived.
3. The true strength of Christianity is revealed when it is in 'exile.' The further The Church is away from the center of political power, the closer it is to realizing and expressing its deepest meaning and bestowing its greatest blessings.
4. I neither asserted anything about the corruptness of politics in general, nor the corruptness of secular or atheistic politics in particular. I said that political power corrupts and defiles the heart of the Christian message. My words are purposeful and chosen with intent.

There are many Christians who 'tolerate' corrupt governments who oppress them. Each week my church prays for an oppressed Christian in a foreign nation. They are tortured, imprisoned, beaten, isolated from their families and friends, prevented from accessing adequate legal representation, health care, food, water, you get the picture. These people can do nothing about their situation, except rely on the grace of God and prayers of their fellow Christians. Yet they remain steadfast in their faith. I think to a person all of those few who eventually find their freedom go right back to what they were doing that got them in trouble in the first place - loving God, worshipping Him, evangelizing in His name and waiting for His return.

In all of these cases these Christians are completely politically disenfranchised.

Yet their ministies are powerful.

They make a powerful witness to the fact that Christianity does not need political power in order to survive and thrive.

As a counterpoint, the entanglement of Christianity with US politics bears witness as to how misguided and jaded the church and its members can become when they begin to take such blessings for granted.

 

[Hydra009]

No, my YEC religion and science supports my YEC science and mythology just like your OEE religion and science supports your OEE science and mythology, whatever PRATTS are.

You do realize that if you close your eyes, the world doesn't disappear, right? The age of the Earth doesn't change to come into line with your interpretation of Genesis. It's clear from multiple scientific fields that the Earth is indeed much older than 9,000 years, so asserting to the contrary and then asserting that this is based on even a scrap of science is quite frankly, blatantly lying. Hence the OP.

 

[GoSeminoles!]

It is my personal belief that the teaching of creation “science” is one of the most dangerous threats facing the evangelical Christian Church today. I believe that it is an especially dangerous threat because it makes evangelical Christians appear to be intellectually challenged baboons suffering from the late stages of dementia. I also believe that organizations like the ICR (Institute for Creation Research) and AiG (Answers in Genesis) make evangelical Christians appear to be not only grossly ignorant of the natural sciences, but liars and deceivers who are more than willing to commit any sin necessary in order to make the theory of evolution appear to be indefensible.


What is your take on this matter?

I agree and so does St. Augustine.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

No, my YEC religion and science supports my YEC science and mythology just like your OEE religion and science supports your OEE science and mythology, whatever PRATTS are.

PRATT = Point Refuted a Thousand Times as if you didn't know. Your false claim that science supports YEC is either the result of complete ignorance of science or is deliberately false hence you help to demonstrate PrincetonGuys point.

F.B.

 

[TheBear]

Oh good. dad and John Crawford in the same science thread. This ought to be entertaining. I've just made some popcorn.

 

[john crawford]

There are many Christians who 'tolerate' corrupt governments who oppress them. Each week my church prays for an oppressed Christian in a foreign nation. They are tortured, imprisoned, beaten, isolated from their families and friends, prevented from accessing adequate legal representation, health care, food, water, you get the picture. These people can do nothing about their situation, except rely on the grace of God and prayers of their fellow Christians. Yet they remain steadfast in their faith. I think to a person all of those few who eventually find their freedom go right back to what they were doing that got them in trouble in the first place - loving God, worshipping Him, evangelizing in His name and waiting for His return.

In all of these cases these Christians are completely politically disenfranchised.

Yet their ministies are powerful.

They make a powerful witness to the fact that Christianity does not need political power in order to survive and thrive.

How exactly do Christians "thrive" under the punishing conditions of slavery which African-American Christians had to tolerate for hundreds of years before some other Christians finally got their Christian theology together in order to free those Christian slaves from their oppressors?

Being correct about the survivabilty of Christians and Christianity under systems of political persecution and slavery comes as no surprise to anyone ever since the government of the pagan Roman Empire collapsed and Christians became free to govern themselves throughout Byzantium for a thousand years until falling under Islamic rule.

As a counterpoint, the entanglement of Christianity with US politics bears witness as to how misguided and jaded the church and its members can become when they begin to take such blessings for granted.

It may be because American Christians have taken such blessings of freedom for granted during the last century that those blessed freedoms are being surreptitiously taken away from them now upon the false judicial pretext of religious banishment which is clearly in violation of the protective 'prohibition' clause against banning religion in the First Amendment.

 

[john crawford]

You do realize that if you close your eyes, the world doesn't disappear, right? The age of the Earth doesn't change to come into line with your interpretation of Genesis. It's clear from multiple scientific fields that the Earth is indeed much older than 9,000 years, so asserting to the contrary and then asserting that this is based on even a scrap of science is quite frankly, blatantly lying. Hence the OP.

What kind of years are you talking about? Bible years? Solar years? Light years or the years you have existed in spacetime according to quantum mechanics? There are all kinds of ways of measuring time, you know, and scientists can't even measure the velocity and mass of a wave or particle at the same time without getting themselves all confused. So before you start calling other Christians or creation scientists liars, you might check out the length of your own sinful nose to see if it has grown at all recently in the short time you have lived on the planet.

 

[john crawford]

PRATT = Point Refuted a Thousand Times as if you didn't know. Your false claim that science supports YEC is either the result of complete ignorance of science or is deliberately false hence you help to demonstrate PrincetonGuys point.

F.B.

Ill wager that creation scientists know more about science than you or PrincetonGuy do.

 

[ImmortalTechnique]

nope, you lose


hopefully you wagered your posting priveliges

 

[chaoschristian]

How exactly do Christians "thrive" under the punishing conditions of slavery which African-American Christians had to tolerate for hundreds of years before some other Christians finally got their Christian theology together in order to free those Christian slaves from their oppressors?

I am not speaking on the welfare of individuals. I am saying that faith survives and thrives even in conditions and environments that are oppressive. The fact that all American slaves did not end up as atheists attests to this.

Being correct about the survivabilty of Christians and Christianity under systems of political persecution and slavery comes as no surprise to anyone ever since the government of the pagan Roman Empire collapsed and Christians became free to govern themselves throughout Byzantium for a thousand years until falling under Islamic rule.

The institutionalization of Christianity under the auspices of the Roman Empire was one of the darkest moments of Christian history and we are still suffering its effects. Those Christians did not rule themselves, they were ruled by brute force under the guise of a state sanctioned church which officially backed the regime in question. How does that reflect any part of the ministry of Jesus? What part of the Kingdom of Heaven does that resemble?

It may be because American Christians have taken such blessings of freedom for granted during the last century that those blessed freedoms are being surreptitiously taken away from them now upon the false judicial pretext of religious banishment which is clearly in violation of the protective 'prohibition' clause against banning religion in the First Amendment.

I believe you are seriously misinterpreting both the meaning and the intent of the 1st Amendment and in such a way that would have dire consequences for Christians.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

I can't believe I'm posting in this forum again. *sigh*

Yes, I agree with the OP. The thing I think that is most dangerous about ID, are the ones that say that evolution is not compatible with Christianity. The way I understand it, is that salvation lies with Jesus, and not what people believe about Genesis, or how we got here.

I think that the Creationists who say evolution doesn't work with Christianity, really do more hurt than good. Someone who thinks evolution is correct, may not come to the religion because people are telling them that they can't believe in evolution and be a Christian. So, from a believer's point of view, people may lose their salvation and not come to Jesus, simply because of Creationists.

 

[Grengor]

Well, there's the quote that is (something) like "The people who do the most harm to Christianity is Christians". Though in this case it's the vocal minority.

 

[john crawford]

I am not speaking on the welfare of individuals. I am saying that faith survives and thrives even in conditions and environments that are oppressive. The fact that all American slaves did not end up as atheists attests to this.

Of course, but that doesn't politically justify anyone enslaving or persecuting Christians. As a matter of historical fact, theological concepts of Christian liberty have served to throw off the yoke of political oppression as it yet will again in China and America once more.

The institutionalization of Christianity under the auspices of the Roman Empire was one of the darkest moments of Christian history and we are still suffering its effects. Those Christians did not rule themselves, they were ruled by brute force under the guise of a state sanctioned church which officially backed the regime in question. How does that reflect any part of the ministry of Jesus? What part of the Kingdom of Heaven does that resemble?

Are you talking about 1000 years of Christianity in Western Europe or Byzantium? As far as I know the Code of Justinian formed the legal basis of social government in Byzantium for 1000 Christian years until Western crusaders sacked Constantinople on their way to the Holy Land.

I believe you are seriously misinterpreting both the meaning and the intent of the 1st Amendment and in such a way that would have dire consequences for Christians.

What consequences could be more dire for Christians than to have their religious beliefs abolished in the public square by secular fanatics?

 

[chaoschristian]

What consequences could be more dire for Christians than to have their religious beliefs abolished in the public square by secular fanatics?

Please provide one concrete example of a recent act of government within the United States that abolishes the belief in Christianity.

 

[john crawford]

Someone who thinks evolution is correct, may not come to the religion because people are telling them that they can't believe in evolution and be a Christian. So, from a believer's point of view, people may lose their salvation and not come to Jesus, simply because of Creationists.

Nah. People can alway convert to Christian Evolution, better known as TE. That way, they get their religious beliefs about human origins taught as science in public schools even though they can't quite reconcile the Biblical account of Jesus' genealogy with neo-Darwinist theories of his human descent from non-human or less-than-human "primitive" primate species of African origin.

 

[john crawford]

Well, there's the quote that is (something) like "The people who do the most harm to Christianity is Christians". Though in this case it's the vocal minority.

Hmmm.... I 'spose vocal Christians were in the majority for 300 years in ancient Rome.

 

[Hydra009]

What kind of years are you talking about? Bible years? Solar years? Light years or the years you have existed in spacetime according to quantum mechanics? There are all kinds of ways of measuring time, you know, and scientists can't even measure the velocity and mass of a wave or particle at the same time without getting themselves all confused. So before you start calling other Christians or creation scientists liars, you might check out the length of your own sinful nose to see if it has grown at all recently in the short time you have lived on the planet.

lol. I thought you'd go that route when pressed. Ok, thanks for going out of your way to prove the point again.