The common thread in Trump's defenders

[Eternally Grateful]

In some ways, yes, I do. In other ways, no, I don’t.


Somebody had to pick up that torch.

lets see them be consistent.

 

[iluvatar5150]

No,

what they have done is tell me what they think he was charged with.

Unlike most people. I want to know what he was actually charged with..

Here's a copy of the indictment so you can read the charges yourself:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Donald-J.-Trump-Indictment.pdf

Here's a link to the pertinent legal statute:

NYS Open Legislation | NYSenate.gov

www.nysenate.gov

Here's the wikipedia page describing the case:

Prosecution of Donald Trump in New York - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Here are a whole bunch of other documents from the case:

People v Donald J. Trump (Criminal) | NYCOURTS.GOV

Decision & Order: Motion to Terminate Order Restricting Extrajudicial Statements, June 25Presence of Counsel at Presentence Order, June 7Letter to Parties, June 7

ww2.nycourts.gov

Now you know what he's been charged with.

 

[BCP1928]

Trump scares the left.

Thats why they re trying to take him out..

No, we just despise him. It's his supporters we're afraid of--angry religious ideologues with guns. Taking out Trump doesn't make them go away.

 

[BPPLEE]

No,

what they have done is tell me what they think he was charged with.

Unlike most people. I want to know what he was actually charged with..

No one can tell you what the crime he was allegedly trying to conceal was because the jury did not have to decide

 

[BPPLEE]

No, we just despise him. It's his supporters we're afraid of--angry religious ideologues with guns. Taking out Trump doesn't make them go away.

Yeah but you have no fear of all those people who were looting and burning. Trespassers scare the living daylights out of you though

 

[probinson]

Unlike most people. I want to know what he was actually charged with..

This article sums it up pretty well:

The first Trump trial is here, set to begin on Monday, with the allegation being that the former president violated New York law by having his company misreport payments to Stormy Daniels as “legal fees” rather than campaign expenditures.​

​

...​

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Misreporting business expenses is normally, at most, a misdemeanor. Bragg seeks to ratchet it up to a felony here by arguing that the misreporting was done to cover up a crime. That alleged crime is a violation of the Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA). The theory is that Trump’s payments to Daniels were campaign expenditures and thus needed to be publicly reported as such. By not reporting the expenditure, the theory goes, Trump prevented the public from knowing information that might have influenced their votes. ​

​

There is one big problem with this theory: The payments to Daniels were not campaign payments.​

​

Trump's Best Defense Has Nothing To Do With Bragg Or Merchan

Commentary on the case has consisted of accusations against Bragg and Merchan, but Trump has a strong defense on the merits.

thefederalist.com

​

So in a nutshell, Trump was found guilty of misreporting business expenses that the prosecution successfully convinced a jury was done to cover up a bigger campaign finance crime.

However, as the article concludes, "Had Trump made these payments with campaign funds, it seems a near certainty he would now be facing criminal charges for a knowing and willful diversion of campaign funds to pay personal obligations." You're just supposed to forget that "The case surrounding Trump’s payments is one that both the Justice Department and FEC rejected to prosecute in recent years. The Justice Department in 2019 "effectively concluded" its investigation into Trump’s payments. While in 2021, the Federal Elections Commission announced that it had dropped a case looking into whether Trump had violated election laws for the payment to Daniels." (source)

So since they couldn't get him on campaign finance law violations, they got him on misreporting business expenses. Because they had to get him on something, amirite?!

 

[Foamhead]

lol

I am not falsly accusing a president.

Nor am I trolling

I have been told the same lies by many in this thread (the people you claim have told me) that I hear on the media.

Then stop asking people to explain it to you as if you don't understand, when what you really mean it you don't like it.

 

[Yttrium]

lol..

reasonable for a leftist maybe..

Hardly. I'm a centrist. I think Clinton should have been kicked out of office after having been impeached. Hardly a leftist sentiment. But Trump committed a state crime in cooking the books. Clinton lied to Congress. They are completely different situations, even though they both have immoral sexual conduct in their background.

 

[Halbhh]

This article sums it up pretty well:

The first Trump trial is here, set to begin on Monday, with the allegation being that the former president violated New York law by having his company misreport payments to Stormy Daniels as “legal fees” rather than campaign expenditures.​

​

...​

​

Misreporting business expenses is normally, at most, a misdemeanor. Bragg seeks to ratchet it up to a felony here by arguing that the misreporting was done to cover up a crime. That alleged crime is a violation of the Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA). The theory is that Trump’s payments to Daniels were campaign expenditures and thus needed to be publicly reported as such. By not reporting the expenditure, the theory goes, Trump prevented the public from knowing information that might have influenced their votes. ​

​

There is one big problem with this theory: The payments to Daniels were not campaign payments.​

​

Trump's Best Defense Has Nothing To Do With Bragg Or Merchan

Commentary on the case has consisted of accusations against Bragg and Merchan, but Trump has a strong defense on the merits.

thefederalist.com

​

So in a nutshell, Trump was found guilty of misreporting business expenses that the prosecution successfully convinced a jury was done to cover up a bigger campaign finance crime.

However, as the article concludes, "Had Trump made these payments with campaign funds, it seems a near certainty he would now be facing criminal charges for a knowing and willful diversion of campaign funds to pay personal obligations." You're just supposed to forget that "The case surrounding Trump’s payments is one that both the Justice Department and FEC rejected to prosecute in recent years. The Justice Department in 2019 "effectively concluded" its investigation into Trump’s payments. While in 2021, the Federal Elections Commission announced that it had dropped a case looking into whether Trump had violated election laws for the payment to Daniels." (source)

So since they couldn't get him on campaign finance law violations, they got him on misreporting business expenses. Because they had to get him on something, amirite?!

• While falsification of business records only requires someone to have “[made] or [caused] a false entry in the business records of an enterprise” under New York law, the crime is just a misdemeanor at that stage, and becomes a felony if it’s proven the defendant falsified records “with intent to defraud that includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.”

• That means the jury must show Trump falsified records to cover a second crime, which prosecutors allege is New York’s election law prohibiting “conspir[ing] to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means”—since Cohen allegedly paid off Daniels in order to boost Trump’s chances in the 2016 election.
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• Since that law requires defendants to have influenced an election through “unlawful means,” jurors will also have to determine whether a third crime was committed that made the hush money scheme violate the election law.
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• The third “unlawful” action could be violating the Federal Election Campaign Act, meaning Cohen’s payment to Daniels was a contribution to Trump’s campaign that exceeded the legal limit—which Cohen already pleaded guilty to.
  The third crime could also be falsifying other business records, after Cohen created a fake shell company to send the Daniels payment in 2016, or violating tax laws by making false entries on tax returns related to the payment.
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  The judge’s instructions also explained to the jury what’s known as “accessorial liability,” meaning that Trump can still be convicted for crimes he undertook in conjunction with someone else—like Cohen—as long as there’s proof that he “solicited, requested, commanded, importuned, or intentionally aided that person to engage” in the illegal conduct. That means even if Cohen or someone else directly carried out an illegal action, like falsifying the business records or making an illegal campaign contribution, Trump could still be convicted based on that if the jury found he enabled the crime.
  
  

  Trump Convicted: Here Are The Election And Tax Laws He Was Charged With Breaking

  Trump has only been charged with falsification of business records, but jurors would also have to find he did it to cover up an underlying crime.

  www.forbes.com
  
  
  
  Of course infamously, Trump simply buys off accusers mostly, and in most cases just endlessly delays trials with large teams of lawyers aiming to prevent his being held accountable. So, it was surprising and remarkable that he finally got caught and convicted in NY previously not long ago for falsifying the value of property by giving vastly different (not just 20% or 50% different, but by a factor far larger) values for a building when paying taxes vs restating the value very differently when getting a bank loan with that property as collateral.
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• Specifically by falsely stating the square footage with intent to deceive.
  
  
  e.g. -- The attachment was a 1994 document, signed by Trump, that pegged his Trump Tower triplex at 10,996 square feet — not the 30,000 square feet later claimed for years on financial statements that were given to banks, insurers and others to make deals and secure loans.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
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[MotoToTheMax]

I’m always tickled by all these seemingly rock solid defenses random people on the internet are able to come up with that Trump’s own high paid lawyers apparently ignored or were totally clueless to during his trial.

Trump should actually be sending millions of dollars to his supporters for all their hard work in defending him, not the other way around.

The other half of the coin is that apparently Trump is terrible at picking lawers, buy yet we can trust who we picks for his admin to run the country.

 

[Halbhh]

The other half of the coin is that apparently Trump is terrible at picking lawers, buy yet we can trust who we picks for his admin to run the country.

I know that's sardonic, but a tragedy is that enough money and high priced lawyers can go a long way to canceling justice in the U.S.; infamously, Trump not only buys off some accusers, but also in many cases just hires lawyers that endlessly delay trials aiming to prevent his being held accountable. So, it was surprising and remarkable that he finally got caught and convicted in NY not long ago for falsifying the value of property by giving vastly different (not just 20% or 50% different, but by a factor far larger) values for a building when paying taxes vs restating the value very differently when getting a bank loan with that property as collateral -- e.g. "The attachment was a 1994 document, signed by Trump, that pegged his Trump Tower triplex at 10,996 square feet — not the 30,000 square feet later claimed for years on financial statements that were given to banks, insurers and others to make deals and secure loans." That he was finally convicted a couple of times is a very remarkable outcome for this rich man that flaunts his near immunity. Let's hope that enough swing voters pay attention to reality about Trump now.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Yeah but you have no fear of all those people who were looting and burning. Trespassers scare the living daylights out of you though

When did Biden have this done?

 

[ozso]

A lot of people supporting Trump don't necessarily like him. But they dislike the current democrat/liberal system more than they dislike Trump.

 

[Halbhh]

A lot of people supporting Trump don't necessarily like him. But they dislike the current democrat/liberal system more than they dislike Trump.

Unfortunately Trump is a cunning deceiver, who paints false pictures constantly to trick people to think what he wants them to think, and many have been misled by him into believing some things he says, as he mixes bits of real things in with all the invented imagined things he makes up.

 

[rambot]

No one can tell you what the crime he was allegedly trying to conceal was because the jury did not have to decide

Links were provided.
Please don't lie.

The burden is that he has to allegedly be covering up a crime. Why would a jury have to decide on a single allegation and be unanimous? He's not being charged with that crime.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Unfortunately Trump is a cunning deceiver, who paints false pictures constantly to trick people to think what he wants them to think, and many have been misled by him into believing some things he says, as he mixes bits of real things in with all the invented imagined things he makes up.

Change the word "Trump" to "a politician" and that would be a fair statement.

 

[BCP1928]

Change the word "Trump" to "a politician" and that would be a fair statement.

Sure, but some politicians are better at it than others,

 

[BPPLEE]

Links were provided.
Please don't lie.

The burden is that he has to allegedly be covering up a crime. Why would a jury have to decide on a single allegation and be unanimous? He's not being charged with that crime.

The jury had to decide that he WAS covering up a crime. They didn’t have to decide what that crime was.

 

[ozso]

Unfortunately Trump is a cunning deceiver, who paints false pictures constantly to trick people to think what he wants them to think, and many have been misled by him into believing some things he says, as he mixes bits of real things in with all the invented imagined things he makes up.

He was president for four years. So we don't have to guess what he'll be like as president. It's going to be more of the same as before. Either people were happy or okay with that or they weren't. But it's not like he's been untried.

 

[Halbhh]

Change the word "Trump" to "a politician" and that would be a fair statement.

Right, Biden also but there is a big difference of degree.

Trump is also doing one of the certain sins singled out as one of the 7 that God especially hates in particular.
(actually, he's doing 4 of these!, but it's the last one in particular that comes to mind as the most important today between Trump and America, as Trump stirring up conflicts in America with false accusations can cause murders and strife inside a nation, by setting formerly peaceful people up to be in conflict, for imagined reasons, for wrongs that people had not even done).

For instance Trump has now invented a new lie that the FBI was sent to try (if possible) to kill him.... That will enrage some people that believe that lie and make them willing to kill innocent FBI officers.

16 There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.


Here's what Trump used -- that the FBI agents always have guns and can defend themselves if attacked....

"... former President Donald Trump and several GOP lawmakers spread false claims suggesting President Joe Biden authorized his assassination during the search of his Mar-a-Lago resort in 2022.

In a fundraising email responding to right-wing media reports that offered a distorted reading of a newly-unsealed court filing in Trump's classified documents case, Trump falsely claimed Biden was "locked & loaded ready to take me out."

In a separate post on his Truth Social platform Tuesday evening, Trump further said he was "shown Reports" that Biden's DOJ "AUTHORIZED THE FBI TO USE DEADLY (LETHAL) FORCE" in their search of the property for classified documents."

Trump falsely claims Biden, FBI had plan to assassinate him during Mar-a-Lago search

The FBI issued a rare saying it followed standard protocol.

abcnews.go.com