The Church - The Body of Christ

[Benefactor]

Matthew 16:18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Jesus declares in this statement the His church does not exist. This means that His church did not exist during any time in the past.

The church that exists prior to Jesus starting His church yet future of this verse was the church of the assembly of Israelites’.

In the Jewish church are both saved and lost

In the body of Christ His church there are no lost.

In the local church are professing believers and real believers.

Benefactor

 

[SGM4HIM]

Strange link Only one resurrected body as of 2009 so far.

Who is in the front of the lunch line vs back of the line?

We (all believers) get a meal on the last day.

John 6:39-40 "And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it (on) the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day."

What was something better in Hebrews 11:40? Those trusting or believing in the Lord would also include the Gentiles.

And when the Gentiles come into fullness, sight will be restored to Israel.

Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[Terral]

Hi Benefactor:

The Topic is “The Church – The Body of Christ” (Eph. 4:12), but your reference below is to the Kingdom “Bride” (John 3:29) “church” (Matt. 18:17-18), or Church #1 from my “Two Churches” Thread here.

Matthew 16:18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Benefactor Commentary >> Jesus declares in this statement the His church does not exist. This means that His church did not exist during any time in the past.

No. Benefactor is declaring that Christ’s Kingdom Church does not exist for some strange reason on “The Church – Body of Christ” Thread. Our Mystery “Body of Christ” (Eph. 4:12) “His Body” Church (Col. 1:24) comes into existence with Paul’s conversion in Acts 9:15-16 on the road to Damascus, which is Church #2 saved by God’s grace through faith apart from works. Ephesians 2:8-10. The Kingdom Church that Christ is talking about includes ‘disciples’ (mathetes #3101 = used 269 times in the NT) that are saved by obeying the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 4:23, 9:35) that John the Baptist is preaching in Mark 1:4-5 and Jesus Christ is preaching as the “Gospel of God” in Mark 1:14-15. Just how many times does Paul use this term "mathetes" (disciple) in all of his Thirteen Epistles to the Gentiles combined? The answer is ZERO. :0)

“Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee [Matt. 4:17-23], preaching the Gospel of God [Gospel of the Kingdom = #1], and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand [Matt. 3:2, 4:17, 10:7]; repent and believe in THE GOSPEL." Mark 1:14-15.

For you to declare that this “My Church” does not even exist is ridiculous, because Peter, John and James (Matt. 10:2+) are 'disciples' of the same Kingdom Church that begins right here in the Four Gospels. This Kingdom “Church” has already started in the time that Jesus Christ HAS His DISCIPLES, because ‘they’ (Peter, John, James, etc.) represent the “called out assembly” (Vine’s) being gathered by obeying the GOSPEL OF GOD that Jesus Christ IS PREACHING. We see that “His disciples came to Him” in Matthew 5:1, which means they have already been gathered by obeying the “Gospel of the Kingdom” that Christ is preaching in Matthew 4:17-23. We see “Jesus and His disciples” in Mark 2:16*, with John’s disciples mentioned along with Christ’s disciples in Mark 2:18*; which tells us that Peter, John and James were SAVED to become part of the “called out assembly” through the ‘preaching’ of the “Gospel of God” going on back in Mark 1!!!

The church that exists prior to Jesus starting His church yet future of this verse was the church of the assembly of Israelites’.

We disagree! The Kingdom Church of the Four Gospels began with JOHN/ELIJAH (Matt. 11:13-14) who is the “messenger/angel” of Malachi 3:1+ appearing in the wilderness ahead of Jesus Christ. We know this to be ‘the truth’ (John 5:31-33), because the two disciples of John (Jn 1:35) “followed Jesus” (John 1:37) to become “His disciples” (John 2:2). Scripture says,

“This beginning of His signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory, and HIS DISCIPLES believed in Him. After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother and His brothers and His disciples; and they stayed there a few days.” John 2:11-12.

Since Jesus Christ has “disciples” way back in John 1, then obviously “My church” began right along with the ‘called out assembly’ in John 1!! The only way you can ‘start’ the Kingdom “Bride” (John 3:29 = fulfills Hosea 2:19-20) AFTER Matthew 16 is for Jesus Christ to begin preaching the “Gospel of God” to gather His disciples AFTER that point in Scripture, which renders your hypothesis FALSE. If you will check the Topic of this thread again, then we are supposed to be writing about “The Church – BODY OF CHRIST” (Church #2) that does not even start until Paul’s Conversion in Acts 9. :0)

In the Jewish church are both saved and lost.

The Jewish Church? :0) There is no Hebrew/Aramaic term in the Old Testament translated into ‘church’ even once and the two terms “Israel” and “Church” DO NOT appear in the same verse anywhere in the New Testament either. “The whole church” from Acts 5:11 is the Kingdom “Church in Jerusalem” (Acts 8:1 = Church #1) that Paul persecuted before his conversion in Acts 9. Peter’s Kingdom “Bride” Church (#1) is “the church” that received Paul, Barnabas and Titus in Acts 15:4 headed up by Peter, John and James (Gal. 2:9*) the reputed pillars of ‘that’ called out assembly based in Jerusalem. Paul was sent to Jerusalem to ‘submit the gospel I preach among the Gentiles’ (Gal. 2:2*), because the disciples from Peter’s Kingdom “Bride” had no idea that the “Dispensation of God’s Grace” (Eph. 3:2 = 'IF you have heard') even existed and “some of our number” (Acts 15:24) from Peter’s Kingdom Church were ‘disturbing’ (Gal. 1:6-7) the brethren from Paul’s Galatian Churches who obeyed his “Gospel to the Uncircumcised” (Gal. 2:7 = Gospel #2).

In the body of Christ His church there are no lost.

What is up with the ‘no lost’ characterizations? :0) There is no “Body of Christ” to even talk about in the Four Gospels, because only Peter’s Kingdom “Bride” (Church #1) is called to exist through the preaching of the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Gospel #1). You are confusing the Kingdom Bride (Church #1) with Paul’s Mystery “Body of Christ” (Church #2) without knowing the difference . . . again. :0)

In the local church are professing believers and real believers.

Professing and real? :0) Did you really get everything in Post #21 from Matthew 16:18 from and interpretation of “My church” that John the Baptist calls the “Bride” (John 3:29)?? I would recommend a book called “Things That Differ” from C.R. Stam (here = it is free online) for those among you trying to sort out the differences between the ‘Two Churches’ of the New Testament. My rebuttal against the errors in Stam’s work can be seen on this thread (here), because Stam is right about some things ‘and’ dead wrong about others. :0)

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Terral]

Hi SMG:

Strange link. Only one resurrected body as of 2009 so far.

The Topic is “The Church – The Body of Christ” and our mystery (1Cor. 15:51-53) rapture (1Thes. 4:15-17) is still a future event (my thread). A post by someone without quoting the Opening Post, and without quoting anybody writing on the topic, can certainly be characterized as a ‘strange post’ indeed . . .

Who is in the front of the lunch line vs back of the line?

We (all believers) get a meal on the last day.

John 6:39-40 "And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it (on) the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day."

Here we go again . . . Lordy . . . The “Body of Christ” (our Topic = Church #2 here) begins with Paul on the Road to Damascus, as already presented for Benefactor above. By the time the ‘last day’ (far right) comes that you are talking about, then ‘we’ (Body of Christ) have already been with the Lamb in “His Heavenly Kingdom” (2Tim. 4:18) for just about 1000 years (spanning 1000 Year Day of the Lord in blue). Has Christ died for anyone in John 6? No!!! Paul’s “my gospel” (Rom. 2:16, 16:25) is given to him through a ‘revelation of Jesus Christ’ (Gal. 1:11-12) only AFTER God raised Christ from the dead ‘and’ only AFTER Paul is raised up on the road to Damascus in Acts 9. Until that time, then only Peter’s Kingdom “Bride” (Church #1) has been called out through obedience to the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Gospel #1 here) that Jesus Christ is preaching as the “Gospel of God” back in Mark 1:14-15 . . .

What was something better in Hebrews 11:40? Those trusting or believing in the Lord would also include the Gentiles.

No sir. Jesus Christ was sent ONLY to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel (Matt. 15:24), as He also sent the Twelve out to ONLY the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel (Matt. 10:5-7) to begin their preaching of the “Gospel of the Kingdom.”

And when the Gentiles come into fullness, sight will be restored to Israel. (Rom. 11:25).

Are you writing about the “My Church” from the Four Gospels (your John 6 quote = “Bride” from John 3:29), or about Gentiles obeying the “Gospel of the Kingdom” like the Samarians in Acts 8:12-17 and Cornelius’ family in Acts 10? We agree that something strange is going on. :0)

In Christ Jesus (Church #2) by obeying Paul’s Gospel (#2),

Terral

 

[Benefactor]

Hi Benefactor:


No. Benefactor is declaring that Christ’s Kingdom Church does not exist for some strange reason on “The Church – Body of Christ” Thread.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

Those that are "classified as saved" at the time Jesus makes the Matthew 16:18 statement are assuredly not at that time in the church that is yet future.

Whatever name is assigned to the elect at that time is of course not that of the future. Christ church according to Matthew 16:18 is yet future. There again we may differ on when it started and what it is called but be sure Christ Church did not exist at the time Jesus made that statement.

Benefactor

 

[SGM4HIM]

TERRAL

So whats your take on Hebrews 11:40 anyway? You firmly say No Sir and then talk about Jesus. If you read Hebrews 11:40 you would not see the name Jesus in it.

"since God had planned something better for us, so that they would not be perfected without us."

So rather than repeat your manifesto why not discuss bible scripture.


Yes it does seem I'm not talking about "Your Church"

If you have a problem with my quote of Romans 11:25, it's in my bible. Paul in Chap 11 also talks about being grafted in.

I'm in , are you?

 

[Terral]

Hi Benefactor:

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Those that are "classified as saved" at the time Jesus makes the Matthew 16:18 statement are assuredly not at that time in the church that is yet future.

Stop being ridiculous! John the Baptist and Jesus Christ are PREACHING the “Gospel of God” (Mark 1:14-15) since the start of Mark 1 and everyone obeying the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Gospel #1) is being gathered to the Kingdom “Bride” (Church #1) from John 3:29, whether Benefactor ever makes the “Gospel of God” connection or not. Peter, John and James are members of “My church” since the start of the Four Gospels that continues under construction in Matthew 16. Jesus Christ sent the Twelve out to preach that the Kingdom of heaven is ‘at hand’ in Matthew 10:1-7. Right? Of course! Okay then. Everyone obeying the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 9:35) is being added to the Kingdom ‘Bride’ to fulfill such OT prophecies as given in Hosea 2:19-20 and Exodus 19:5-6 concerning the “KINGDOM” that was “AT HAND.” See Romans 11:7.

Whatever name is assigned to the elect at that time is of course not that of the future.

Wrong. Peter is gathering the ‘early rains’ (James 5:7) version of the Kingdom “Bride” (John 3:29) by preaching the “Gospel of the Kingdom” some 2000 years ago on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2) ‘and’ Elijah will begin gathering disciples to the “Late Rains” Kingdom Bride by preaching the “Gospel of the Kingdom” to the END of the Age (Matt. 24:14) the very same way. Those two groups are rejoined together on the ‘sea of glass’ (Rev. 4:6, 15:2 = pic = blue arrow from upper right) during and after the “Great Tribulation” (Matt. 24:21, Rev. 7:13-16), until they are joined together as “one” at the “Marriage Supper Of The Lamb” (Rev. 19:5-10).

Christ church according to Matthew 16:18 is yet future.

We agree. The process of gathering (Matt 12:30-32) had just begun some 2000 years ago ‘and’ the process of building that heavenly “Kingdom of Priests” (Ex. 19:5-6, 1Peter 2:9, Rev. 1:5-6, 5:10) will continue throughout the upcoming 1000 Year Day of the Lord (in blue). The difference is that our Mystery “Body of Christ” (Church#2) is called, justified and glorified (Rom. 8:28-30) ‘between’ the two gatherings of the early ‘and’ late rains Kingdom ‘Bride,’ during this 2000 Year Mystery Time (in red) that NONE of the OT Prophets were given to see.

There again we may differ on when it started and what it is called but be sure Christ Church did not exist at the time Jesus made that statement.

You could not possibly be MORE WRONG. :0) John the Baptist began gathering disciples to the Early Rains Kingdom Bride even before Jesus Christ appeared to anyone. Scripture says,

"But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and one who is more than a prophet. This is the one about whom it is written, ‘Behold, I send My messenger/angel ahead of you, who will prepare Your ways before You.’ I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he." When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God's justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.” Luke 7:26-30.

God began ‘separating’ the faithful from the unbelievers during John’s Ministry of “Spirit” (in yellow), before Jesus Christ THEN began His ministries of ‘blood and water’ (1Jn 5:6). Are you really going to sit behind that computer screen and insist that John the Baptist and Jesus Christ preached the “Gospel of the Kingdom” for three long years ‘and’ NOBODY was even saved?? :0) Stop being foolish! Even Peter, John and James are ‘saved’ by obeying the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (#1) during the Four Gospels, so ‘they’ were added to Christ’s “My Church” BEFORE Christ said anything in Matthew 16.

You are trying to begin ‘your fake church’ over in Acts 2, which is the only reason you are coming out here to make these ridiculous claims in the first place. Since both John the Baptist and Christ have ‘DISCIPLES’ in Mark 2:18-20, then you have no case for Christ’s “My Church” starting after Matthew 16. The future tenses appear in that passage, because the construction of the Kingdom “Bride” would continue in the future, as that process had just begun a few years earlier with John the Baptist and Jesus Christ preaching the “Gospel of God” (Mark 1:14-15) in their respective ministries.

The Kingdom "Bride" (Church #1) started with John the Baptist and Jesus Christ preaching the "Gospel of the Kingdom" way back to 'start' the Four Gospels. Our Mystery "Body of Christ" (Church #2) started with Paul on the Road To Damascus in Acts 9. Too simple. :0)

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Terral]

HI SGM:

TERRAL

So whats your take on Hebrews 11:40 anyway? You firmly say No Sir and then talk about Jesus. If you read Hebrews 11:40 you would not see the name Jesus in it.

The Topic: “The Church – Body of Christ.” Hebrews is a Kingdom Book containing “Kingdom Doctrine” for the Kingdom Disciples obeying the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Gospel #1) becoming members of Peter’s Prophetic Kingdom “Bride” (Church #1) having NOTHING to do with our Mystery “Body of Christ” (Church #2) at all. You are trying to hijack the “Body of Christ” Topic to SomeWhereElseVille . . .

"since God had planned something better for us, so that they would not be perfected without us."

So rather than repeat your manifesto why not discuss bible scripture.

Write on THE TOPIC of ‘this’ thread and I am more than happy to address your opposing views using Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15.

Yes it does seem I'm not talking about "Your Church"

That is a VAST understatement . . . My Church is “Church #2” called “His Body” Church by Paul in Colossians 1:24.

If you have a problem with my quote of Romans 11:25, it's in my bible. Paul in Chap 11 also talks about being grafted in.

Quote the entire Bible if that makes SGM happy, but this discussion is about our mystery “Body of Christ” that I am not sure you even recognize as our “His Body” Church . . .

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Benefactor]

The Kingdom "Bride" (Church #1) started with John the Baptist and Jesus Christ preaching the "Gospel of the Kingdom" way back to 'start' the Four Gospels. Our Mystery "Body of Christ" (Church #2) started with Paul on the Road To Damascus in Acts 9. Too simple. :0)

John the Baptist is in the same church as all Jews in the Old Testament. If the church that will exist after the rapture can be called "The Kingdom Bride Church" is fine with me. But make no mistake about it, saints prior to Christ building His Church are a part of the Old Test. church - we can call it the Elect Jewish Church or whatever terms you so desire. The saved in the Old are not a part of the Body of Christ which will end at the time of the Rapture. They are saved on the basis of what Christ did but are not included in the bride of Christ,

Basically the Church that Jesus is building starts from Acts 2 until the rapture.

So we have

1. All believers before the forming of Israel - We can call them the pre nation of Israel church
2. We have the nations of Israel church made up of lost and saved in the congregation who worship in the temple.
3. Now we have the saved gentiles also during the time of the Nation of Israel, Nineveh as an example
4. Now we are in the time of the Body of Christ - Acts 2 to the Rapture
5 Next are the tribulation saints - all believers during the 7 year tribulation are a part of the universal 70th week church “The First Baptist Tribulation Church”
6 In the 1k kingdom we will have all these churches all separate but all one

We will have the First Baptist Church of Adam
We will have the First Baptist Church of Noah
We will have the First Baptist Church of Melchizedek
We will have the First Baptist Church of the Bondage Believers in Egypt
We will have the First Baptist Church of Moses
We will have the First Baptist Church of Joshua
We will have the First Baptist Church of the Judges
We will have the First Baptist Church of Israel
We will have the Second Baptist Church of Divided Israel - The first church split in Baptist history.
We will have the Third Baptist Church Jerusalem (All kinds of schisms)
We will have the Renewal Baptist Church of John The Baptist. At least he picked the right name

Now and next we have the First Pentecostal Baptist Church of the Body of Christ in Jerusalem and the Second Pentecostal Baptist Church in Antioch

Then of course all the Baptist Churches named in Revelation - 7 of them

Baptist have always been full of diversity.

Peter started the First Southern Baptist Bible Church I Peter 1: 1 and 2

Augustine started the First Misled Baptist Church

Calvin started the First More Misled Baptist Church

John Darby started the Right On Baptist Church

 

[Terral]

Hi Benefactor:

John the Baptist is in the same church as all Jews in the Old Testament.

This is perhaps the most ridiculous statement you have made yet! Nobody in the OT had sins forgiven by repentance, confession of sins and water baptism for the ‘forgiveness of sins’ (Mark 1:4-5), as if ANYONE in the Old Testament preached the ‘Gospel of the Kingdom’ (#1) TO ANYONE. Christ says that all the prophets and the Law prophesied UNTIL JOHN (Matt. 11:13), because John's Ministry marked the moment that God began 'fulfilling' (Jn 1:6-7) the same "Prophets and the Law" (OT = in golden yellow) through "My messenger/angel." Malachi 3:1.

You are regurgitating the same nonsense that is not worthy of any reply. Anyone led astray by this kind of nonsense is not even paying attention and is MUCH too far from the ‘Body of Christ’ ship (Church #2) to receive any lifeline from a bible thumper like me . . .

Please check ‘the Topic’ (The Church = Body of Christ) and try again . . .

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Benefactor]

Hi Benefactor:



This is perhaps the most ridiculous statement you have made yet! Nobody in the OT had sins forgiven by repentance, confession of sins and water baptism for the ‘forgiveness of sins’ (Mark 1:4-5), as if ANYONE in the Old Testament preached the ‘Gospel of the Kingdom’ (#1) TO ANYONE. Christ says that all the prophets and the Law prophesied UNTIL JOHN (Matt. 11:13), because John's Ministry marked the moment that God began 'fulfilling' (Jn 1:6-7) the same "Prophets and the Law" (OT = in golden yellow) through "My messenger/angel." Malachi 3:1.

You are regurgitating the same nonsense that is not worthy of any reply. Anyone led astray by this kind of nonsense is not even paying attention and is MUCH too far from the ‘Body of Christ’ ship (Church #2) to receive any lifeline from a bible thumper like me . . .

Please check ‘the Topic’ (The Church = Body of Christ) and try again . . .

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

Nonsense

 

[Hismessenger]

It truly amazes me how many get caught in the natural scheme on things but can't see the overall picture. The rock who is the church was ordained before you ever had a brain fart and is mentioned countless times in the old testament.

Here are just a few

Deu 32:4 [He is] the Rock, his work [is] perfect: for all his ways [are] judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] he.​

Jdg 6:20 And the angel of God said unto him, Take the flesh and the unleavened cakes, and lay [them] upon this rock, and pour out the broth. And he did so.

Psa 40:2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, [and] established my goings.

Psa 42:9 I will say unto God my rock, Why hast thou forgotten me? why go I mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?

2Sa 22:2 And he said, The LORD [is] my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;

2Sa 22:3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: [he is] my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.

2Sa 22:32 For who [is] God, save the LORD? and who [is] a rock, save our God?

God is not a God given to the time line of man. The reason why most can't see or understand. The word rock appears 87 times in the old testament. It might benefit you to start there with your seeking

Put away you human wisdom and ask the rock of truth to give you true revelation/understanding.

hismessenger

 

[Hismessenger]

God began separating the faithful back in the book of Genesis, Not in the new testament. Look at His conversation with Cain about the offerings brought before Him and you might see the true beginnings of the body of Christ.

Gen 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

hismessenger

 

[Ghost air]

The point in this thread is to discuss the relevance of Matthews statement that the Church is future of the time in which the statement was made verses the belief that the Church being viewed as an extension of the Old Testament believers.

Matthew 16:18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

If you are one that see the church of Christ as an extension of the "so called church" of the OT then how do you deal with this clear statement by Christ that the church He is going to build does not exist at the time He makes this statement?

IMO, the church of God which is also referred to as the body of Christ - could not have existed in the OT, because Christ Himself IS building it based upon... what...

Based upon the confession of 'Jesus of Nazareth' being the Son of the living God.

How could Christ build His church upon THAT confession in OT times past, if He was not yet manifest in the flesh as Jesus of Nazareth..?

 

[Hismessenger]

Christ was ordained to be the church before the foundations of the world and appeared many times in the old testament before His purpose in the new covenant was made manifest in the earth. Don't forget, God is not governed by time for it was tomorrow yesterday in eternity.

hismessenger

 

[Ghost air]

Christ was ordained to be the church before the foundations of the world and appeared many times in the old testament before His purpose in the new covenant was made manifest in the earth. Don't forget, God is not governed by time for it was tomorrow yesterday in eternity.

hismessenger

SO are you suggesting that OT saints confessed that Jesus of Nazareth was the Son of the living God - before He was manifest in the flesh..?

 

[Azeke]

I think the doctrine along with the calling for the members is the seperation.
The doctrinal aspects of the seven churches in revelations (which I believe are all Jewish assemblies) have a different message than what we find else where within Pauls writtings, saved by grace, complete in Christ is not the doctrinal outlay of those seven asian churches, their roots are found in historical Israel, and the problems faced in the OT from their roots to Christ.

We also find Jew and partaking Gentile within the olive tree of Israels hope, and later we find in the new man neither Jew nor Gentile but a new creation.

We find the same terms in the hope of Israel but its in reference to coming to God for salvation, being a Jew or Gentile, male or female, held no advantage over the other in obtaining salvation from God, becoming a new creature ect, but you still had Jew, and Gentile a shadow of the coming prophetic kingdom on earth when Christs reigns from is earthly fathers throne.

The New Man was a secret, kept since the foundation and is completly heavenly with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places.

Zeke.

 

[Hismessenger]

In one word, YES.

hismessenger

 

[Ghost air]

In one word, YES.

hismessenger

Would you care to explain how OT saints confessed that Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ (the Son of the living God) before He was manifest in the flesh to Israel..?

 

[Hismessenger]

I'll let the scripture answer that,

Hbr 11:13 — These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

They knew who He was. Abraham talked with Him in a manifestation of the flesh before Sodom and Gomorrah The word says that God talked with Moses face to face. this is confirmed on the mount of transfiguration. There are many more places that show they knew He was coming. Isaiah talks about His coming and so did Jeremiah and Zachariah.

It's all there if you have eyes to see and ears to her what the spirit is saying.

hismessenger