The Church is absolutely unnecessary.

[DavidFirth]

I will, and thank you. I am trying very hard to follow the Lord. He is my hope.

I can tell that you are. Kudos to you for your faith.

 

[Philip_B]

Tradition is sometimes wrong. Traditionalists will not see it though.

The challenge between the mission of Jesus in which we are called to participate and the role as guardians of the sacred deposit of faith, means that the Church must receive the Holy Tradition, but not in an unquestioned way.

 

[jaybird88]

Church is important for praise and worship. this is the example of Jesus and the 12.
i also believe church can hinder ones growth, when you start depending on the group for your belief, the church believes this or that so i will believe it to. this is being lead by the group and not being led by the Spirit.

 

[Halbhh]

Depends which church you belong too I guess. If you belong to the Catholic Church then you know for a fact that you are in the very church that Jesus started.

Sorry, but are you in Jerusalem? Not trying to be facetious. What I'm trying to point at -- it's about the essence, not the appearance. It's about what is in our hearts, where others cannot know, but God does know.

After all, surely you must agree that some in your own congregation may not be believing? I mean, guessing you have more than 50, surely there might be a few there that are just there purely by habit, but not in true spirit.

I consider Francis very encouraging, and it was interesting the other day he was saying people should put away their smartphones during services. Seems right, doesn't it?

 

[DavidFirth]

Look all, there are people with social problems. I once talked to a man on the phone who was scheduled to come into the office to see me about a legal matter. He tried to explain to me that he actually had a problem where he could only travel a short distance from his home or he would quickly have a panic attack. I know that this sounds strange, but there are people with such a condition.

Good point, Basil. I also suffer from depression that I take medicine for. Ever since they got me on the right medication I'm fine but it took a long time to finally get it right.

 

[DavidFirth]

Church is important for praise and worship. this is the example of Jesus and the 12.
i also believe church can hinder ones growth, when you start depending on the group for your belief, the church believes this or that so i will believe it to. this is being lead by the group and not being led by the Spirit.

Yes, one must be careful to pick a church in which the Spirit thrives so that this does not happen.

 

[MyGivenNameIsKeith]

The Church is absolutely unnecessary.



Hi everyone. I'd like to start a debate with regards to the necessity of church worship.

I am of the opinion that aside from enhancing your social life and having a sense of community, a church is absolutely useless. If a church becomes responsible for providing food for the needy and shelter from the homeless, then it's a different story. However, outside of those things, it is absolutely and utterly useless.

Sometime in the late medieval period, a group of Christians, who later became known as "mystics", absolutely rejected church worship and took to worshiping God their own way. This to me is brilliant. God, after all, is a personal God who resides in our hearts. There is no practical use for a church when it comes to salvation and fulfillment. It is nothing but just another business that employs people. All we really need is a Bible and our unwavering faith.

Your thoughts?

Well, if you actually read the bible, and use it for more than a coaster, you would see that we should gather together. Not for social cat calls, not for money exchanging in the temple, but to honor the Lord. To lift each other up. To enrich our own spiritual lives and each others lives. What do you gain by being alone? What insights? A few examples if I may. Most are Copy pasted, normally I use kjv, these are esv. Point being, go to church.

Hebrews 10:24-25 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”
Matthew 12:30 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
Leviticus 8:4 And Moses did as the Lord commanded him, and the congregation was assembled at the entrance of the tent of meeting
1 Corinthians 5:4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
Romans 12:10 Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor
Romans 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.
Acts 12:12 When he realized this, he went to the house of Mary, the mother of John whose other name was Mark, where many were gathered together and were praying.
Genesis 1:10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
Ephesians 5:19 Addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[W2L]

The challenge between the mission of Jesus in which we are called to participate and the role as guardians of the sacred deposit of faith, means that the Church must receive the Holy Tradition, but not in an unquestioned way.

Which Church? EO, RCC, Anglican, baptist, Presbyterian?

 

[W2L]

Good point, Basil. I also suffer from depression that I take medicine for. Ever since they got me on the right medication I'm fine but it took a long time to finally get it right.

Im on medication as well. At first i thought it was a lack of faith, but then after much concern from my family i got on meds. Its helpful.

 

[Deadworm]

Brian, your position can be summarily dispatched by 3 observations:

(1) The key distinguishing feature of a true disciple is not love for other people in general, but rather demonstrated love for fellow Christian disciples in a gathered community in the way that Jesus loved His gathered disciples (John 13:34). The gathered community is essential to the group identity that makes the regular demonstration of practical love from Christian to Chrisiian possible. By opposing the necessity of the gathered church, you are disrespecting Jesus' teaching.

(2) We regularly gather for corporate worship because God's Word commands us to do so (Hebrews 10:25). The ancient Christian hermits violated this command with their isolationism, but the monastic communities served each other and the outside world with their various ministries and therefore qualify as local manifestations of the Church. Why are you trivializing God's Word?

(3) The Church is defined as the mystical corporate Body of Christ that must function coherently in community with its different role (eyes, hands, feet, etc.) and spiritual gifts (See e. g. 1 Corinthians 12).

 

[W2L]

I can tell that you are. Kudos to you for your faith.

Amen.

 

[paul becke]

The Church is absolutely unnecessary.



Hi everyone. I'd like to start a debate with regards to the necessity of church worship.

I am of the opinion that aside from enhancing your social life and having a sense of community, a church is absolutely useless. If a church becomes responsible for providing food for the needy and shelter from the homeless, then it's a different story. However, outside of those things, it is absolutely and utterly useless.

Sometime in the late medieval period, a group of Christians, who later became known as "mystics", absolutely rejected church worship and took to worshiping God their own way. This to me is brilliant. God, after all, is a personal God who resides in our hearts. There is no practical use for a church when it comes to salvation and fulfillment. It is nothing but just another business that employs people. All we really need is a Bible and our unwavering faith.

Your thoughts?

Do you think Jesus never thought of that? His own synagogue parishioners in Nazareth once tried to throw him over a cliff. Moreover, he came to know that the leaders of the Synagogue would, one day, have him flogged and crucified. But, instead of rejecting the Synagogue, he combined the interior life of the mystic with synagogue attendance and its discipline. Although that is not to say that he did not, on occasions, spend quite extended periods as a hermit, as he did on the occasion when he was tempted by the Devil, at the very beginning of his ministry.

 

[Vicomte13]

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? For whatever reason, Jesus chose not to do it in the individual mystical way you favor, or in the book-based way others favor, but decided to do it by designating men, putting them in charge, and sending forth a church out into the world to carry forth his message.

So, Jesus could have just communicated with each individual through the Holy Spirit and not bothered with Apostles and disciples and a church. Or he could have set up a bible dispensary. But he did neither of those things. What he did was set up a church, so evidently HE thought it was most important to do it that way.

You'll have to work out with him why he chose to do it that way, and not the direct contact mysticism route you prefer. I can't tell you why he did it as he did it. All I know is that he did.

 

[W2L]

My thoughts? For whatever reason, Jesus chose not to do it in the individual mystical way you favor, or in the book-based way others favor, but decided to do it by designating men, putting them in charge, and sending forth a church out into the world to carry forth his message.

So, Jesus could have just communicated with each individual through the Holy Spirit and not bothered with Apostles and disciples and a church. Or he could have set up a bible dispensary. But he did neither of those things. What he did was set up a church, so evidently HE thought it was most important to do it that way.

You'll have to work out with him why he chose to do it that way, and not the direct contact mysticism route you prefer. I can't tell you why he did it as he did it. All I know is that he did.

As children we grow, but once we are grown we need no teacher. The HS guides us.

 

[fat wee robin]

The Church is absolutely unnecessary.



Hi everyone. I'd like to start a debate with regards to the necessity of church worship.

I am of the opinion that aside from enhancing your social life and having a sense of community, a church is absolutely useless. If a church becomes responsible for providing food for the needy and shelter from the homeless, then it's a different story. However, outside of those things, it is absolutely and utterly useless.

Sometime in the late medieval period, a group of Christians, who later became known as "mystics", absolutely rejected church worship and took to worshiping God their own way. This to me is brilliant. God, after all, is a personal God who resides in our hearts. There is no practical use for a church when it comes to salvation and fulfillment. It is nothing but just another business that employs people. All we really need is a Bible and our unwavering faith.

Your thoughts?

You are like a child who has no sense of history ,nor how we build a civilised society .
I wonder do you have a computer and modern gadgets ,do you live in a wildreness without water ,electricity ,organised towns ? Was it 'mystics who brought about such things , or was it organised communities , mostly religious, who brought it all together .
The Western scociety which as been so successful was built by two main churches .The RCC and the Orthodox .Most beautiful towns were built around a Church ,and most Art was patronised and encouraged by the churches .People connected in churches for most of the neccessities of life ,praying together ,working together on projects etc.
I could go on, but you do have one small point of truth and that is that we need also to be with God alone ,as well as connecting in the faith . These websites are taking the place of Church buildings for some , but they are really a form of modern Church, which fulfill a need in a world which is now too large .

 

[Halbhh]

As children we grow, but once we are grown we need no teacher. The HS guides us.

This is true in one way, yes, gradually, but let me add that all of us, every person on Earth, bishops and all, great theologians, all -- we all have but one teacher, only, and not more in the way that matters, He told us --

8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted."

No one can say anything important and true in a spiritual way finally, that really matters, except that it fully agrees with what Christ said to us in words that will actually never pass away(!), even after this present heaven and Earth literally pass away and are replaced with the new. (Matthew 24:35) These words of truth can't be made better, nor even altered to any gain.

The most wonderful thing is that when you read again in one of the gospel accounts, and listen to His words there, that even if you've read that gospel several times, you will still be taught new things if you open your heart and listen to Him. "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me."

It humbles us again and again to be taught, even when we thought we'd already learned much, or if we thought someone else already wrote all that matters in some theology or catechism, as if the His words were past tense. No, they are present tense.

Alive. Continuing. He is still overturning tables.

 

[Philip_B]

Which Church? EO, RCC, Anglican, baptist, Presbyterian?

That would be the one holy catholic and apostolic church.

 

[Waterwerx]

Christians, who later became known as "mystics", absolutely rejected church worship and took to worshiping God their own way. This to me is brilliant.

That's a big part of the problem with churches nowadays and WHY they hardly resemble churches anymore in regards to Christian doctrine. "Brilliant" is hardly the word I would use to describe it unless one were writing a book on how to derail a church.

But outside of that, the church is nothing more than a dignified social medium.

Then blame the pastor/priest, because this isn't what a church is suppose to be based upon. There's absolutely nothing wrong with socializing in the church before or after a service. The problems that arise from it are the result of individuals being allowed to use it as a means to gossip, put others down, etc.

If we really wanted to make a difference, we should volunteer or donate to charitable organizations instead of visiting a place to compare clothing.

Like what, you mean like the Shriners, Points of Light Foundation, etc.? No wonder why churches are becoming further useless. People want to strip away the charity aspect of churches and migrate it over to a non-church philanthropic organization.

Quite frankly, you have a terrible attitude toward churches. Churches aren't the problem, but rather the people IN them.

 

[Vicomte13]

As children we grow, but once we are grown we need no teacher. The HS guides us.

The HS? Does that mean the Church?

 

[W2L]

The HS? Does that mean the Church?

It means Holy Spirit.