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The Book of Enoch

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Stryder06, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

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    So I was wondering how many people consider this to be inspired. I read through it this weekend and couldn't help but wonder what would make anyone think this was from God.
     
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  2. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

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    I know that it is inspiried, and Jesus calls it Scripture.

    The Book of Enoch, Translated by Robert H. Charles, 1912
     
  3. PaladinValer

    PaladinValer Traditional Orthodox Anglican

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    No modern Jewish or Christian group considers it Scripture.

    While it is often said the Ethiopian Orthodox Church does, their concept of Holy Scripture is not the same as the rest of the vast majority of Christianity, so to cite them as evidence is not valid since we're not talking about the same definition of Holy Scripture.
     
  4. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

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  5. Tzaousios

    Tzaousios Αυγουστινιανικός Χριστιανός

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  6. Lion King

    Lion King Veni, vidi, vici

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    Any reasons you believe it was not from God?
     
  7. TheGMan

    TheGMan Follower of Jesus of Nazareth

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    If one recognises the Epistle of Jude as Scripture, it seems churlish to balk at Enoch.

    By similar argument, though somewhat more tenuous, to what Scripture does Jesus refer here if not to Enoch.
     
  8. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

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    Plenty, but I asked why first. It's only polite to answer my question before posing your own :)
     
  9. Stryder06

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    I did this as one reason, being that people believe Jude was quoting from Enoch. I however had a hard time accepting that as fact. And I don't know why you think Jesus would have been quoting from Jude. He would have been speaking from what He knew, since He came from Heaven.

    So the "quoting" aside, what other reasons are there to see this book as inspired?
     
  10. PaladinValer

    PaladinValer Traditional Orthodox Anglican

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    That assumes that only canonical books are quoted or referenced. If that isn't the case, then this argument has no validity.

    And it isn't the case.
     
  11. Lion King

    Lion King Veni, vidi, vici

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    Wouldn't it be easier for people to list the reasons they believe it's not inspired?:confused:
     
  12. Stryder06

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    Wouldn't it be easier for you to answer the question? Like I said, common courtesy.
     
  13. ChetSinger

    ChetSinger Well-Known Member

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    Jude and 2 Peter appear to refer to some of the events described in Enoch. But to me that alone doesn't stamp "scripture" on the entire thing.

    For example, if I say "D-Day was on June 6 1944" and you find the same thing in a WWII history book, I'm not necessarily vouching for everything contained in that book.
     
  14. TheGMan

    TheGMan Follower of Jesus of Nazareth

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    Oh no. It is 100% fact that Jude was quoting from the Book of Enoch. We have papyrus fragments from Qumran that prove it.

    I am assuming that the Sadducee he was addressing did not come from heaven and did not benefit from his privileged knowledge. Jesus said, "You do not know the Scriptures."

    I assume you are referring to Acts 17:28. Very good, but Paul does not refer to the men he quotes as prophets, or even as philosophers, only as poets.

    A question: what is the difference between asserting that the Book of Enoch is prophecy (as Jude does) and asserting that is Scripture?
     
  15. Stryder06

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    I can appreciate that. However with scripture, should we be ok with a book that might have somethings correct, and other things wrong?
     
  16. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

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    Reading the Word of God for nearly forty years as an avid student of the Word left me with many, many, questions that I thought I would have to wait til I was in heaven to get the answers to, but many of them are answered in Enoch.

    The wording of the old English translation and the ignorance of the English translators [and we are all as ignorant, having lost Enoch in the west for so long] make some things harder to understand at first glance, but reading them, and thinking, one does grasp the meaning.
    In the below passage, the "cutting of roots" was worded in such a way as to make one imagine that for some reason it is sin to cut a root to reproduce a cloned plant, but it is speaking of cutting roots in the genetic sense, and genetic manipulation is exactly what is stated.
    below:

    ..

    But being a student of the Word, I saw Jesus' Gospel in Enoch, which did not just spring on the world out of nowhere, but was in Enoch, first, and the Law was given to rehearse the things that Enoch first wrote of, about the redemption to come in the name of the Son of Man come to earth, to die, descend, be raised, ascend, and be glorified, and in whose formerly secret name [Israel] the righteous would be saved.
    Jesus quoted from Enoch time and time again, as if it was part of his entire being and said things that are found no other place than in Enoch, which was read and used by studious Jews of His day, and after His ascension, for hundreds of years, also.

    The rapture pre-trib is in Enoch chapter 50, and the time of tribulation is in Enoch in many places.
    Without Enoch, Revelation is a piece of a puzzle that has too many pieces missing: Enoch was first, and those pieces are in Enoch.

    It is the first book of eschatology, and it is revelation from God through Enoch, to us in these last days, especially.
     
  17. ChetSinger

    ChetSinger Well-Known Member

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    No, and that's why I don't consider Enoch to be scriptural, and neither does my church. It may have some good stuff in it, but that alone hasn't lifted it to the level of scripture except in (apparently) a single denomination of the church.
     
  18. Tzaousios

    Tzaousios Αυγουστινιανικός Χριστιανός

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    Right, which makes it very interesting to see lonewolf Christians constantly appeal to it in order to corroborate whatever theories they come up with supposedly by just reading for themselves and praying.
     
  19. sicksince

    sicksince Newbie

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    Enoch wasn't included in the Hebrew Canon or the Septuagint because it isn't inspired...end of discussion.
     
  20. PaladinValer

    PaladinValer Traditional Orthodox Anglican

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    I wasn't. I was referring to the fact that the Church never gave it any real credence and was never part of the Septuagint nor official lists of the Canon.

    A better question: how is prophecy automatically Scripture?
     
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